2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

You really jumped the shark on what my post was about.

It’s a stupid comparison. There is not enough in common between the two to make a comparison. It is literally apples to oranges but people keep rolling it out as proof one way or the other. You even stated it in your post, we have no idea what long term data on COVID is, yet we keep rolling it out against the flu to make completely unsubstantiated points. Just stop doing it.

It isn't stupid. You don't live in fear because you don't know what the long term effects are, of a virus. We need to live in what we know land.

When people say kids cannot go back to school because of the risk of COVID to them, that's an ignorant statement BECAUSE the data shows that the flu kills 500% more than COVID does, yet we're okay with kids going to school with no protection when it comes to the flu. Places aren't even trying to use masks, or barriers, or social distancing from students to teachers and they want to say, "For the safety of our kids." It's BS because we can compare a virus that happens every year, to a virus that is currently happening.

I don't think we should be comparing the actual virus of the flu, to COVID; that's different.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

You’re not comparing for similarities though, you are comparing for 1:1 numbers, i.e. Flu causes x deaths and Covid causes x deaths. In that case the variables have to be much more similar or comparable to draw any conclusions. They simply are not, so to compare the numbers with so little similarities is wildly illogical but keeps being done over and over to prove points on both sides.

I understand your point and I agree with the overall idea. But I disagree that you cannot compare the two as they relate to the health, outlook, risk and well-being of children. I think focusing specifically on this topic and this subset o the population, it's fair to say "COVID is X to children" where as "The Flu is Y to children"

And thus ultimately compare COVID to the Flu as it relates to children. We are discussed how the virus impacts the younger population, or puts them at-risk.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

It isn't stupid. You don't live in fear because you don't know what the long term effects are, of a virus. We need to live in what we know land.

When people say kids cannot go back to school because of the risk of COVID to them, that's an ignorant statement BECAUSE the data shows that the flu kills 500% more than COVID does, yet we're okay with kids going to school with no protection when it comes to the flu. Places aren't even trying to use masks, or barriers, or social distancing from students to teachers and they want to say, "For the safety of our kids." It's BS because we can compare a virus that happens every year, to a virus that is currently happening.

I don't think we should be comparing the actual virus of the flu, to COVID; that's different.

Speak for yourself. I haven't left my Covid bunker since February. Does the sun still come out everyday?

[pac213up]

Originally Posted by Boo

If Dems can't come together this time against Trump, they need to blow it up and start over. Or split into two parties. Actually both parties should be forced to split into two.

I think they will come together in their dislike for Trump. I remember when people thought the Tea Party movement was going to split the Republican Party.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

I understand your point and I agree with the overall idea. But I disagree that you cannot compare the two as they relate to the health, outlook, risk and well-being of children. I think focusing specifically on this topic and this subset o the population, it's fair to say "COVID is X to children" where as "The Flu is Y to children"

And thus ultimately compare COVID to the Flu as it relates to children. We are discussed how the virus impacts the younger population, or puts them at-risk.

Yes, if we knew more about COVID, we could have a conversation. Even saying COVID is X to children at this point is not completely known. Our understanding of COVID comes with very strict criteria, including less than one year of epidemiological spread, under very odd social circumstances. We still know very little, so again to draw these comparisons out continually is illogical. Especially when my initial post was specifically about 1:1 comparisons.

I don’t think younger populations are at an increased risk. I don’t have great concern about kids in environments with standard precautions maintained as much as reasonably possible. I draw these conclusions from what little we understand right now from COVID only data. To compare it in anyway to the flu and draw any more conclusions is just not rational or germane to the conversation.

But again, it keeps being done over and over. Just discuss COVID and what we know to this point on its own merits instead of drawing faulty conclusions.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

It isn't stupid. You don't live in fear because you don't know what the long term effects are, of a virus. We need to live in what we know land.

When people say kids cannot go back to school because of the risk of COVID to them, that's an ignorant statement BECAUSE the data shows that the flu kills 500% more than COVID does, yet we're okay with kids going to school with no protection when it comes to the flu. Places aren't even trying to use masks, or barriers, or social distancing from students to teachers and they want to say, "For the safety of our kids." It's BS because we can compare a virus that happens every year, to a virus that is currently happening.

I don't think we should be comparing the actual virus of the flu, to COVID; that's different.

Let COVID data stand on its own merits. It is stupid to make faulty conparisons and misrepresent conclusions. It doesn’t help make a point when what you focus your argument around is nonsense.

To have any comparison between the number you have to isolate more variables and create a more consistent comparison, which we likely can’t be use we simply don’t know enough to isolate those variables.

So make a valid argument based solely on the low incidence of infection and spread of COVID among children. Period. As I said, you’re so enraged that you think I’m positing a position I’m not that you are making an argument against a point I’m not making.

[TheHeel]

Originally Posted by Boo

Of course you do.

It's not just voting Trump, it's the Senate too.

Of course I do.

Remember 2016?

[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Let COVID data stand on its own merits. It is stupid to make faulty conparisons and misrepresent conclusions. It doesn’t help make a point when what you focus your argument around is nonsense.

To have any comparison between the number you have to isolate more variables and create a more consistent comparison, which we likely can’t be use we simply don’t know enough to isolate those variables.

So make a valid argument based solely on the low incidence of infection and spread of COVID among children. Period. As I said, your so enraged that you think I’m positing a position I’m not that you are making argument against a point I’m not making.

We wouldn't be having these conversations if we didn't shut down the country, that's the main thing, that's why people are trying to compare it to the flu, and other things as well. Enraged? Nah.

[DegaBama]

I wonder how people would take the COVID-19 situation if the media reported on the cases times 10, which is the CDC estimation on how many people actually have it. Instead of being 70,000 new cases, it's 700,000 new cases. I genuinely wonder if people would be in more fear, or less.

[Jgil316]

We lost months, billions or dollars, jobs while we shut down due to arguing and posturing.

Everything that was sacrificed, by Americans is now lost and we are back at square one.


Trying to manage this virus as well as getting the economy going again - I am not confident (although I am hopeful)

To get the economy back (like most of the other countries around the world) they addressed the virus first

[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

We lost months, billions or dollars, jobs while we shut down due to arguing and posturing.

Everything that was sacrificed, by Americans is now lost and we are back at square one.


Trying to manage this virus as well as getting the economy going again - I am not confident (although I am hopeful)

To get the economy back (like most of the other countries around the world) they addressed the virus first

I mean, this is exactly it. We had 50 Governors and the Federal Government just bickering, as opposed to solving the issues at hand using the experts around them.

[Jgil316]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

I mean, this is exactly it. We had 50 Governors and the Federal Government just bickering, as opposed to solving the issues at hand using the experts around them.

I couldn't agree more - PERFECTLY said!!!!!

[deansayso]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

I wonder how people would take the COVID-19 situation if the media reported on the cases times 10, which is the CDC estimation on how many people actually have it. Instead of being 70,000 new cases, it's 700,000 new cases. I genuinely wonder if people would be in more fear, or less.

Less fear I'd say. At least that's my position

[Boo]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

We lost months, billions or dollars, jobs while we shut down due to arguing and posturing.

Everything that was sacrificed, by Americans is now lost and we are back at square one.


Trying to manage this virus as well as getting the economy going again - I am not confident (although I am hopeful)

To get the economy back (like most of the other countries around the world) they addressed the virus first

I don't think we are back to square one, things are open in most places, schools are preparing to open, sports are being played without incident.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by DegaBama

We wouldn't be having these conversations if we didn't shut down the country, that's the main thing, that's why people are trying to compare it to the flu, and other things as well. Enraged? Nah.

Nice deflect.

That’s not what I made a point about, or was even talking about. I was very specific, which you have failed to grasp multiple times.

If it ain’t rage, it’s confusion.

[Boo]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Nice deflect.

That’s not what I made a point about, or was even talking about. I was very specific, which you have failed to grasp multiple times.

If it ain’t rage, it’s confusion.

Dude if you are that afraid, keep your kids at home, every district will have the option.

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

Seems kind of an aggressive response all of a sudden considering I only stated my perspective and a perspective I know many people share, but yes I'm open to reading some of the literature backing your viewpoint since I'm not in any way invested in the goings on of the BLM organization or their stances.
I felt like I gave a good analogy with the breast cancer reference.

I'm being transparent when I say I have not paid much attention to the formal BLM organization whatsoever & have not lost sleep over their activities (looting, rioting etc are not activities I attribute to the organization but if legit evidence presents itself, I'll change my stance).

I'm open to discussing the organization since this seems to be a pressing issue to some people here.

If that’s an aggressive response I don’t know if this thread is for you. I’m not the one saying I support a group that has made a lot of hateful statements from their management. What type of response should I get if I said I don’t really pay attention to the kkk but I think I like their ideology. You should not go around saying you support a group unless you understand it. Like I said, if you need me to pull up what some of their management has said, I’m willing to do so. Before I get the response, no I am not comparing the kkk to Blm I’m just saying you should do you research before you openly say you support a group.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by Boo

Dude if you are that afraid, keep your kids at home, every district will have the option.

Dood if you could read you would realize where I stand and what I’m discussing

Just read, dood.

[Boo]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Dood if you could read you would realize where I stand and what I’m discussing

Just read, dood.

You are arguing we don't have enough data, etc meaning you are afraid of what you don't know. Keep your kids at home, no one will care. The majority of people are fine with sending their kids to school.

[JeremyNick]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Yes, if we knew more about COVID, we could have a conversation. Even saying COVID is X to children at this point is not completely known. Our understanding of COVID comes with very strict criteria, including less than one year of epidemiological spread, under very odd social circumstances. We still know very little, so again to draw these comparisons out continually is illogical. Especially when my initial post was specifically about 1:1 comparisons.

I don’t think younger populations are at an increased risk. I don’t have great concern about kids in environments with standard precautions maintained as much as reasonably possible. I draw these conclusions from what little we understand right now from COVID only data. To compare it in anyway to the flu and draw any more conclusions is just not rational or germane to the conversation.

But again, it keeps being done over and over. Just discuss COVID and what we know to this point on its own merits instead of drawing faulty conclusions.

Originally Posted by Boo

You are arguing we don't have enough data, etc meaning you are afraid of what you don't know. Keep your kids at home, no one will care. The majority of people are fine with sending their kids to school.

I’m arguing that constantly comparing it to the flu for any reason is illogical and that it would be best for anyone wanting to make a rational argument for or against to stop doing it.

Now since you refuse to read, let me go ahead and do it for you. Please show me in the bolded where I exhibit any fear of sending my kids to school or argue that it shouldn’t be done.

I tried to give you an out but you just dug it deeper dood. Awaiting your sincere apology for misplaced #covidshutdownrage.

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

Dood if you could read you would realize where I stand and what I’m discussing

Just read, dood.

You spelled 'dude' wrong.

[Boo]

Originally Posted by cnewby

You spelled 'dude' wrong.

He's not very smart so it's ok.

[Boo]

Originally Posted by JeremyNick

I’m arguing that constantly comparing it to the flu for any reason is illogical and that it would be best for anyone wanting to make a rational argument for or against to stop doing it.

Now since you refuse to read, let me go ahead and do it for you. Please show me in the bolded where I exhibit any fear of sending my kids to school or argue that it shouldn’t be done.

I tried to give you an out but you just dug it deeper dood. Awaiting your sincere apology for misplaced #covidshutdownrage.

FYI I don't have covidshudownrage if that is a real thing. Haven't missed or taken any vacation since this whole thing started.

You sound afraid and scared and as I said, it's ok. You have a choice.

[tpeichel34]

Originally Posted by Jopeal

I highlighted opinions of yours that I consider biased and/or misleading.

As for the quote by a guy I've never heard of & who seems to get far more coverage from conservative media outlets (Hmmmm), I agree it's aggressive speech and a bad metaphor.

A quick wikipedia search will show that he's not in any way affiliated with the Global BLM network, and probably just wants to get famous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawk_Newsome

Further I'm genuinely encouraging you to actually present steps that you think black Americans should take, whether individually, or collectively to address social reform rather than focusing on and specifically denouncing BLM the organization.

People are free to weigh in with how they have a more positive impression of BLM after seeing the fires, the looting, the statues coming down, the murders, the police assaults, the lawlessness. There are peaceful protests, but I think the negatives greatly outweigh any positives. Perhaps people that only follow the MSM are not seeing the negative things that I am? Do you feel more positively about the movement now?

[tpeichel34]

Originally Posted by pac213up

I think they will come together in their dislike for Trump. I remember when people thought the Tea Party movement was going to split the Republican Party.

The voters were able to defeat the establishment candidates like Jeb Bush, Rubio, etc so we didn't need to leave. We took over the party. Let the Never Trumpers split off and start there own thing with their fellow neocons and corporate globalists.