20-24: A Nesmith Odyssey

[bkcardcollector]

dont spread yourself too thin. might wanna focus on nembhard or turner rcs with the odd mathurin rc (all pacers in their rc year).

[volblorx8634]

Please keep sharing, very fun to see what supercollecting could look like in today's hobby landscape. I actually like this year's Hoops. It's the first design in several years that feels somewhat different than the last ten years of designs, whether ya like it or not, I think that's refreshing.

Five printing plates, very nice! Printing plates feel pretty polarizing. 1/1s-ish in the sense that each plate has a few different colors. Cheapens them literally and to some people figuratively. Can you share what it is you like about them?

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by bkcardcollector

dont spread yourself too thin. might wanna focus on nembhard or turner rcs with the odd mathurin rc (all pacers in their rc year).

You could say that a rising tide lifts up all boats. Not sure why the effect on Nesmith cards would be significantly different than that on Turner or Nembhard, if the Pacers win. Throw in Sheppard and McConnell. None of them have the marquee personality, but all will be respected by fans and have niche collectors.

Mathurin and Walker are the two that seem to have higher ceilings. I could see Math in the Iverson range and Walker in the KAT range eventually. And then we have our Steve Nash, Haliburton.

Finally, there is Siakam. He seemed to bring a lot of fans from Toronto and I personally love him. Maybe a move for blue chip investors looking for a later career player eyeing HOF. If Indiana plays it right they will have a Siakam era of leadership contention bridged by whoever truly emerges.

[bkcardcollector]

sure that includes everyone all years.

I would stick to rcs. those are the big price movers. if you like math and walker maybe stick with them but maybe math is a little expensive? maybe not, he could be a good buy and a Canadian I can't say Ive watched Walker.

Of course keep adding to the Nesmith collection. that is a given, but I see you are spreading out a little now as a Pacers fan after not being dealt at the deadline...

[Nomad]

This is a good observation. I think everyone is feeling a little more connected with their Pacers identity after the (non) trade deadline passed. Haliburton was saying this was the least trades he's seen any team engage in across his career. And it ties back to Nesmith's observation in the summer, when they asked him about likely scenarios (this was before Nembhard surprise signed to a three-year extension) that the basic approach this year would be to "run it back."

Having seen the intrinsic riskiness of the "single player" approach, I am really reluctant to wade in the RC chase again. Would rather pick up nice pieces of Pacers in general, knowing that a steady market will exist for decades, if this is indeed the start of a golden era.

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by volblorx8634

Printing plates feel pretty polarizing. 1/1s-ish in the sense that each plate has a few different colors. Cheapens them literally and to some people figuratively. Can you share what it is you like about them?

Please keep this on the under for another 5 years.

I like printing plates because:

1) they are what the ink struck in making the actual first card. Making them the true first off the line (see my CGC 9 silver foil '96-97 TSC rookie error 'first Kobe ever off the line?' thread).

2) They are not all alike. Some look way more cool than the actual issue and some you have trouble discerning the actual image/player. (With a rare few that obscurity actually makes them look awesome). Which opens doors for aesthetics grading (see my 'greening graded' thread and nomenclatures such as 'honorable cracking,' 'hulking,' and 'patina') as opposed to condition or eye appeal grading. This ties into things like the art world.

3) I embrace that there are four 1/1s for every issue. There is usually one that stands out as being the best aesthetically and thus the alpha rank pp (see point 2). But the cool thing is the alpha could be any color.

4) They are an affordable rarity. Sure I could start buying Panini Instant or cups o' ramen, but why go down that slope?

[volblorx8634]

Originally Posted by Nomad

Please keep this on the under for another 5 years.

I like printing plates because:

1) they are what the ink struck in making the actual first card. Making them the true first off the line (see my CGC 9 silver foil '96-97 TSC rookie error 'first Kobe ever off the line?' thread).

2) They are not all alike. Some look way more cool than the actual issue and some you have trouble discerning the actual image/player. (With a rare few that obscurity actually makes them look awesome). Which opens doors for aesthetics grading (see my 'greening graded' thread and nomenclatures such as 'honorable cracking,' 'hulking,' and 'patina') as opposed to condition or eye appeal grading. This ties into things like the art world.

3) I embrace that there are four 1/1s for every issue. There is usually one that stands out as being the best aesthetically and thus the alpha rank pp (see point 2). But the cool thing is the alpha could be any color.

4) They are an affordable rarity. Sure I could start buying Panini Instant or cups o' ramen, but why go down that slope?

I like your thought process. I agree with the affordable rarity thing, and that's what makes it really good value: you appreciate it while others may not! How many plates are you up to?

[Nomad]

Nice to see Nesmith gel with Panini again, foreshortened arms and puffed out chest and everything. I know that is Toppin lookin hard on the left, but can anyone confirm the name of the rapper on the right?

Don't tell me his crew is Doug McDermott.

[Nomad]

Seems like we have a lot to unpack with this Pacers-Grizz game, which I know a lot of boom-era player investor-collectors were watching. First off, the second quarter was some of the funnest pure basketball I have watched in a while. I might watch it again.

I imagine this was what it was like seeing the 2015 Warriors get to work on good teams late in the season, clinically tearing them apart. Like most fans I only stumbled upon them when the crowds indicated a good playoff series was brewing (semi-outdoors eatery in Dumaguete), but it would have been nice to see the Steph - Green - Iguodala - Thompson - Barnes and whoever else was on the team chemistry (interesting we only remember the starters, I think Pacers deeper than that) progress.

Thing is Ja looked good, Bane looked good. I remember when I was buying Grizz slots alongside Celtics, trying to decide whether to invest in Nesmith or Bane (Ja prices were out of my league). It's nice to see that nucleus come to fruition and JJJ tirelessly represent.


Michael Conroy/AP

So really the second quarter was that rare 50 point domination blowout that was also well fought and highly contested. I will say that though Nembhard had the IG-friendly two easy fake-out layups against Ja, it was Nesmith who was the engine and had some amazing plays in his own right. Both had unenviable guarding tasks, Ja and Jackson. Quieted the 'Benn should start' (I assume highly invested in fantasy or cards) crowd right down.

This is how one Redditor put it and seems fair (though I think again it presupposes that the Pacers is not Primus or the Charles Mingus band):

"Solid Aaron Nesmith play is like adding a bay leaf to your dish. It’s subtle, and it adds something you can’t quite put your taste buds on, and enhances and deepens the flavor. And without it, something feels off. So basically the bass guitarist for the Pacers."

Which is not to take away from the fact that Math was absolutely brutal on offense (as important as the clinically superb Hali and Myles) and a large part of why the Pacers won.

Also, there is this:



I hear Haliburton responded by asking Tim to tell the real.

Actually the fandom has started going musical, always a good sign. Some Pacers fans equate the team to that song Big Yellow Taxi by Joni Mitchell “You don’t know what you got till it’s gone.”

[Nomad]

All props to Lakers for shutting out nuggs. Pacers went at it but Jokic, size, and b2b legs had the final say. I will say that Nesmoith has emerged as de facto star factor, with the live crowds and Quinn at least. A solid 17 point outing following a 19 point barnstormer. Jokic went to shake hands after the game, that's how I know cred. Also it was down to Double A and Hali (and arguably Shep) that P's made it to within 6 with under two minutes left.

I say this all with no skin in the game, as collection is nearly complete. Oddly, a full two weeks after Hoops and Topps Finest release, and days after Prizm, no significant cards have appeared. I was like how does this happen, when I can easily get prime older stuff cheap. And then I realized collectors are really hoarding all Pacers current year, even the lesser knowns. This is how brainless the industry is (thank god). First the current cards become scarce and then fans bid up the rookies 5x.

Picked up a couple good printing plates to fill in my 'Cers 1/1 clction, plus another snakeskin.


I am now officially a printing plate snob. So many ring year classics coming down the pipe, due to NT breakers. Cannot not be a buyer.


Does having the 'PACERS' printed on these increase the value for team collectors? We know at least these are licensed.


On the other hand it feels a little contrived. Prolly prefer the raw messed up images.

I went from Spectra denier to full on considering the snakeskin top 5. It's as if there was a really cool Prizm parallel in '20-21 (same photo as 282).



Correct me if I am wrong. Snakeskin has now invaded Prizm? I am a second year Wemby buyer on that, if anyone has one. Might start calling them dinosaur though.

[Nomad]

Interesting item, had my eyes on for a while. To quote:

"An EXTREMELY RARE pair of PLAYER EXCLUSIVE New Balance shoes made and issued to Aaron Nesmith formerly of the Boston Celtics and current Indiana Pacer. Nesmith has really come into his own in Indiana and has plenty of upside. He was a former first round pick just a few years ago and these have to be the coolest shoes he has out there! The shoes are a size 14, UNRELEASED, and model after the famous chocolate drink “Yoo-hoo” !!!! They have candy cane like designs on the side of the shoes and too yoo hoo themed soles! You are likely never to see these again!!!"


I see Panini is not the only company with issues getting stickers aligned. Second year, but whatever. Actually a pretty milestone moment, when he knew he would be sticking around in the league.


As far as being the "coolest shoes he has out there," they have been the only ones on eBay for a year, since a pair of Celtics playoff-worn sold for over a thousand.


I guess Indiana is cow country, carries well in the non-Boston market?


So yeah, coughed up three hundred for some MOO.

Anime funky, from the front reminds me of that Mario bro. The seller had a few other test issue Celtics shoes, Tatum, Horford, wonder if he worked for the organization. I could see players passing their unneeded extras down to staff. But then, wouldn't they sign them, or does that detract from value in the sneakerhead community?

[bkcardcollector]

nice pickups!!

So those are gameused? - Nesquick for Nesmith a thing of genius.

never seen that snakeskin - cool rc

[Nomad]

Except it's not Nesquik, its Yohoo, the drink no one has ever tried.

Still, the design got me, even as one who rarely drinks milk. If this was rap it would be some Andre 2000 loop with floots. If it was a card, it could only be a sketch. I can only think A-Ron came up wit dis himself, probably drew it in the back of class long before he hit the bright lights parquet.

Would I wear it if they produced it for the masses? Never worn a basketball piece per se.

I'm assuming that these are not game used? But could be? Does an inanimate object really care what it was used for?

Must have seen a few practice moments, maybe when he broke the Celtics' in-club record for most 3s made in a row.*

Having absolutely no idea of the inner workings of sneaker industry: I imagine the shoe company makes at least 20 or so of any shoe, even a prototype. I mean unless these are like exclusive secret designs and they literally keep a couple in the vault and send a couple to the player. And then the player likely wears one pair, if that. Would have to go back to the 21-22 tape to see if this made an actual appearance in a game.

Whether it did probably has nothing to do with aesthetics, it's all functionality. Nesmith continually wears the same Picasso shirt, sweats, and DREAMR cap (look to Hali or Pasacal if you want fashion cues) so I assume he wouldn't want to jinx whatever he had going with the pair he was comfortable with and had broken in at the time. Same as how you don't swap out a game ball mid-game just cause it got someone's sweat or drink splashed on it.

*[edit: broke Tatum's shooting after practice team record, making 244 3-pointers without missing two in a row. And that was 10/18/21, a month before the shoes arrived.]

[volblorx8634]

Nice shoes, game worn/player issued stuff is so...weird?...to me. Authenticity is hard to confirm. Those shoes are really cool being so custom.

The snakeskin goes really well on the Spectra, I had no idea they even had a snakeskin parallel in spectra. And yes, I'm pretty sure they have had snakeskin in Prizm the last year (23-24) or two. You have good taste in your plates, great photos on all of em! Panini doesn't do different colored plates like Topps used to do, huh?

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by volblorx8634

Nice shoes, game worn/player issued stuff is so...weird?...to me. Authenticity is hard to confirm. Those shoes are really cool being so custom.

The snakeskin goes really well on the Spectra, I had no idea they even had a snakeskin parallel in spectra. And yes, I'm pretty sure they have had snakeskin in Prizm the last year (23-24) or two. You have good taste in your plates, great photos on all of em! Panini doesn't do different colored plates like Topps used to do, huh?

The only time one can be reasonably sure of authenticity is before a player breaks out. No one would go through the expense of faking a Theo Maledon or Nico Mannion, which was essentially Aaron's card value when this was produced (still?).

Also this seller had this shoe up on the Bay for over a year. And he had Horford, who no one would fake, alongside the two Tatums. The box with the sticker should help verify provenance.

NB has never released a Nesmith issue commercially that I am aware of, though he is one of their select sponsored players (not sure how that works either, but I assume, given licensing and physical production and distribution costs, need to have recognition/demand built up before they would risk it).

Surprised they don't like do limited 100 print runs and send them to high end sneaker shops in El A or wherever. That would be my strategy as a shoe company involved in basketball. Especially if you have a player who could essentially come up with interesting designs.

I do think that having cool shoes like this in existence is probably a fringe benefit of being sponsored though.

[volblorx8634]

Originally Posted by Nomad

The only time one can be reasonably sure of authenticity is before a player breaks out. No one would go through the expense of faking a Theo Maledon or Nico Mannion, which was essentially Aaron's card value when this was produced (still?).

Also this seller had this shoe up on the Bay for over a year. And he had Horford, who no one would fake, alongside the two Tatums. The box with the sticker should help verify provenance.

NB has never released a Nesmith issue commercially that I am aware of, though he is one of their select sponsored players (not sure how that works either, but I assume, given licensing and physical production and distribution costs, need to have recognition/demand built up before they would risk it).

Surprised they don't like do limited 100 print runs and send them to high end sneaker shops in El A or wherever. That would be my strategy as a shoe company involved in basketball. Especially if you have a player who could essentially come up with interesting designs.

I do think that having cool shoes like this in existence is probably a fringe benefit of being sponsored though.

Your bolded statement had me look at some sold listings of gameworn shoes with and without coa. Player issued was a little tougher to look at just because I don't think there were as many listings. Overall, I was surprised at the low ending prices and offer prices. RJ Barrett game worn with COA for $200 or Patrick Williams with Bulls hologram and serial # (didn't look up) for $76 + ship. Those seem really reasonable to me. I'd love to own a game worn pair of Kings shoes for $200 or less. I did pass up a pair of signed Tyreke Evans "game worn" shoes for $100 + ship. Maybe it's not a ton of profit, but feels like someone can make a decent $50 or for each pair of shoes they can fake. Anyway, just scattered thoughts, but even though $100 isn't a lot, I just don't wanna end up with a random pair of shoes. I do agree that the sticker helps!

Keep it coming dude, incredible stuff.

[bkcardcollector]

bruv.

[bkcardcollector]

plus or minus $199

[Nomad]

I am pretty literal. Just believe whatever the eBay seller tells me. Gonna have to send my first package ever back for false advertising (sure there was that package that arrived empty).

Would you mind going back and putting an "l" before the .png? To rightsize that poster for the sugar and milk industries?

On the size 14 shoe tip, they actually serve a practical purpose. iF I set up a player table at a show, a few signed posters and a pair of colorful shoes will provide visibility.

Interestingly, Redwing actually makes Mario's Boots and they look nothing like the Nesquiks. If someone rocked these on a court I would have mad respect.


TBH, all my cultural references are slightly off. That's why I create my own.

[Nomad]

Interesting thread on Reddit recently about Nesmith and the first comment that accurately grasps what I say, about what stands out in live games vs. the packaged highlights that so many consume.

"With the right mesh, Aaron is really valuable but it’s easy to see other situations where he wouldn’t play, like his first two years in BOS or with a roster that did have a big gap at the long-tall wing position.

I wish he’d rebound more consistently but unlike some of our other poor statistical rebounders, thanks to the level of physical force Aaron plays with — he isn’t giving up rebounds. Neither Aaron nor the guy he’s covering are ever near the ball because of how Aaron locks them up and keeps them from ever sniffing the paint. Aaron consistently makes significant reductions to his opponent’s touches and when his opponent gets the ball on the wing they’re often just moving it along instead of making something happen.

Aaron is my favorite player to watch on this team because of how he competes so hard on every play. If you’re at the arena and not subject to the boring views/angles the TV producers choose for you, just watch Aaron wherever he goes. There’s so much going on away from the ball and he’s always winning that part of the matchup except against the guys that just can raise up over him (Brown and Tatum) but then again he plays those two megastars as well as anyone in the league."

I think poster gets it wrong about the two first Boston years. It was kind of a more extreme case of what Mathurin has gone through trying to break through. The team would definitely have won more games and probably a first-round series or two if they had simply let Nesmith grow and play. Feel thankful in a way that he didn't, as he didn't have career ending injury.

I also think that all the posters saying his ceiling having been reached wrong. Aaron had clearly worked on his in-the-paint offensive game when he went down with injury early in the season. Small sample size but, back from injury, he now seems eminently comfortable with any range shot and if he hits a brick wall passes it quickly out without fumbling. Usually to someone for an open three. I look for him to equal or surpass Bennedict in the rock-the-rim skill set pretty quickly.

[Nomad]

Forgive me for continuing on the obsession. But Aaron had a breakthrough game, in front of the home crowd, validating almost exactly what I was saying in the post above. The game before against the Heat was one of those deflating losses that had fans who haven't been following the team closely expecting a skid. A lot of defensive stuff, coupled with a too-obvious closing offense. The last two minutes in particular were an aimless fumble-the-ball away Nembhard/Hali iso reprise of the Boston ECF endings. Nesmith just languishing in the wings.

To see them adjust so fast and now just feed the ball to Aaron like they used to do Math, and the results that followed from getting your natural attacker (plus a top 10 three-point shooter) into rhythm, was gratifying. Hopes for the playoffs shot up about 1000 percent. I know it's only the lowly Bulls—but those guys, without Lavine or Vucevic, have pace and grit, and arguably may be next year's Pistons.

Carlisle mentioned that Nesmith got his offensive touches while holding down the defensive fort against an active Chicago, and Hali drew attention to the way he gets the team into quick-set attack mode after giving up baskets. So in a way, flowers.

Inspired, I picked up a Prizm black-gold for forty bucks. I know that, south of LeBron and Curry, fifth year cards don't aspire that much, so the limited investment money could arguably have been better spent picking up a white mosaic PSA 10 RC /25 or whatever.

But... well you know how gratifying it is to pick up a low number Prizm of a player who has just been reintroduced into breakers' consciousness, even if as a "rag" model ("guys, we have black gold... I see Pacers colors.... Furphinator or Haliburton? ah just a Naysmith").


Been seeing these traffic warning stripe black golds going a couple years, but they didn't intrude, cause see Nesmith wasn't included in sets. Wonder how this will feel in hand.

I will say, I love the purity of the 21-22 hourglass black golds, without all the distractions. Not my favorite image, but probably my favorite card parallel aesthetically.

[Nomad]

This is going to be a slightly navel gazing post. Sorry. It took a lot of years of random posting to get to the point where Brad James never interrupts, and I value that.

One thing that no one ever doubted though was the value of Nesmith as a force. Oh he might be hobby krypronite, but he was the player about whom Tatum coined the phrase "he'll run through a brick wall for you."

The past two weeks back from injury have answered many questions. Nesmith has been stalwart and core. He now is a genuine five-tool threat, with 3 and D the foundations. The other skills now emerging are finding narrow seams passing, getting cleanly through traffic to the basket, and a wicked midrange jumper. Even the three is now often a jumper, giving him height. The result is two games over 20 points in the past three.

Does this have me ecstatic, over the moon? Not really. It was in many ways expected and he plays so hard another injury is always a possibility. What it does do is open a pathway for Nesmith to actually be a true team leader. Siakam gets gassed (see the last Atlanta game), Nembhard iso dribbles the ball away in crunch, Myles disappears for quarters, and Haliburton is still fragile. I say let the value of Sir Kneesmiff be fairly awarded based on postgame performance. The flowers.

Interesting time to be a new-issue collector too. I am not repeating my '23-24 Topps Chrome rainbow madness (Topps return to basketball and first Nesmith in 2 years, so a kind of grail). My aim is one key example per '24-25 set and so far I have everything except Hoops and the newly released Donruss, which has a nice retro aesthetic.

Grandaddy prizm. Traffic cones stripes. This image is actually something new, a shot of him as crunch distributor.


Directing traffic, that's my job.

This. Cracked ice in a to-five. What a great innovation. Actually the first image ever that really captures Double A's veteran essencia. Took a couple years, but done.



I was a little reluctant to purchase this red black vapor refractor /10. It's hard to find one of these ultra rare issues, of any player, that has broken $40. I paid a whopping $25, when it should be five. And the pose is a TC retred. On the other hand, Finest is probably more pedigreed than even Chrome.



In pretty astounding news, Double A got his first Instant, for the 27-point game, since his Celtics '22 playoff win against Miami. Might have to pick up a Versacolor or its equivalent, if he hasn't become a collected player by the time one pops up.


Smile through the grit.

[Nomad]

So it turns out that all this losing to Atlanta and Chicago slide was just extra drama for Starting 5.



I'm gonna savor this. So reminiscent of what Jaylen Brown did to us in ECF.

[Nomad]

What do you think? Are these suitably of the moment?


The expendables.

The Select is kind of cool. The first printing plate of a Double A rookie grail I have procured. Ok, Concourse, but a card any Nesmith collector will be familiar with. And that's what they were all printed with.

The Siakams... I dunno, they just popped.

[volblorx8634]

Originally Posted by Nomad

What do you think? Are these suitably of the moment?


The Select is kind of cool. The first printing plate of a Double A rookie grail I have procured. Ok, Concourse, but a card any Nesmith collector will be familiar with. And that's what they were all printed with.

The Siakams... I dunno, they just popped.

I do like that Select plate. It's nice that you actually see the design on it.