A Very Important Paypal Dispute Learning Experience

[SHowley2003]

Originally Posted by pgisback

Yea, if the card is what you bought. This is not what he bought. He got a counterfeit. Not sure what you guys are smoking, lol. If you buy a counterfeit card whether you find out it's fake in the case or out of the case, you can return it for a full refund.

Just reading through this I’m going with the conspiracy theory that the buyer kept the original card, and mailed back a fraudulent card that was already in their possession. So yes, if I’m buy a card believing it is real and I find out it is not then I am entitled to a full refund. However, I don’t believe this buyer returned the card they purchase. I believe they bought some JW Blue (scotch) and are trying to send back some JW Red.

If eBay wants to continue to deal in this market then they should not allow the refund of cards that were taken out of graded slabs by the buyer. It should be on the buyer to send it to an authenticator to have the slab popped and the fake proven. Otherwise this scenario could continuously repeat itself if you believe my version of what happened.

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by MFaulkCollector

if you take all the facts into consideration about the buyer....... and then pair that with the fact that you actually think they received a counterfeit that passed a grading company (which is probably 1 in 20k items or more)

then i can't help you

if you buy a graded item... and want to return it, you return a graded item.. period.

In what world do you live in that you believe you can sell someone a counterfeit card and be absolved from any responsibility from that sale if they take the counterfeit out of the case? That's scary.

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by SHowley2003

Just reading through this I’m going with the conspiracy theory that the buyer kept the original card, and mailed back a fraudulent card that was already in their possession. So yes, if I’m buy a card believing it is real and I find out it is not then I am entitled to a full refund. However, I don’t believe this buyer returned the card they purchase. I believe they bought some JW Blue (scotch) and are trying to send back some JW Red.

If eBay wants to continue to deal in this market then they should not allow the refund of cards that were taken out of graded slabs by the buyer. It should be on the buyer to send it to an authenticator to have the slab popped and the fake proven. Otherwise this scenario could continuously repeat itself if you believe my version of what happened.

Yea, I 100% agree if that were the case. But we have found the image of the card that the buyer purchased in its case, and someone pointed out that the card in the PSA case is a counterfeit. So to me, absolutely nothing matters about what the buyer did as long as its confirmed that the card in the PSA case is the same card he returned and that it is a counterfeit.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by pgisback

In what world do you live in that you believe you can sell someone a counterfeit card and be absolved from any responsibility from that sale if they take the counterfeit out of the case? That's scary.

No, what is scary is a buyer can destroy the value of an item and then return it and get his money back. Don't you understand that he is screwing the seller? He was sent a 2k card and is getting back a worthless one. Would you feel the same if the card was trimmed instead of fake? At what point does the buyer have to take responsibility for his gamble of crack and resubmit?

The seller has done nothing wrong. He bought a PSA graded card, trusting their opinion. He sold the card trusting their opinion. If the buyer doesn't agree with PSA, he should have returned the card as he bought it.

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by rats60

No, what is scary is a buyer can destroy the value of an item and then return it and get his money back. Don't you understand that he is screwing the seller? He was sent a 2k card and is getting back a worthless one. Would you feel the same if the card was trimmed instead of fake? At what point does the buyer have to take responsibility for his gamble of crack and resubmit?

The seller has done nothing wrong. He bought a PSA graded card, trusting their opinion. He sold the card trusting their opinion. If the buyer doesn't agree with PSA, he should have returned the card as he bought it.

A buyer should never have to "gamble" to determine if their purchase is real or not, lol. And you have no clue whether the case is even real or PSA would give any money back. The fact you do not care that the buyer got a counterfeit card and you want him to suffer the $2k loss because he learned it was counterfeit after breaking out of the case instead of while in the case is interesting. Very interesting.

[cardmole]

Originally Posted by rats60

No, what is scary is a buyer can destroy the value of an item and then return it and get his money back. Don't you understand that he is screwing the seller? He was sent a 2k card and is getting back a worthless one. Would you feel the same if the card was trimmed instead of fake? At what point does the buyer have to take responsibility for his gamble of crack and resubmit?

The seller has done nothing wrong. He bought a PSA graded card, trusting their opinion. He sold the card trusting their opinion. If the buyer doesn't agree with PSA, he should have returned the card as he bought it.

Summed up perfectly. Now, about that fake PSA!?!?!

[pgisback]

That's scary how many people on blowout believe just because someone else says something, they are not responsible for what they sell. If I sold a PSA card and the buyer proved it was fake. I'd be pissed, but there is nothing I can do about it. I'm responsible for what I sell.

[MFaulkCollector]

Originally Posted by pgisback

In what world do you live in that you believe you can sell someone a counterfeit card and be absolved from any responsibility from that sale if they take the counterfeit out of the case? That's scary.

in what world can you try to stir sheet in every thread you post in..... knowing full well you are nothing but a nuisance; while at the same time trying to contradict everyone and ignore any facts....... oh yea, the world we live in this very second

the buyer is a piece of crap, all the facts lead to them being a scam artist and switching the card........... but you go ahead with your mental gymnastics and take the side of the douche bag

way to disappear from the college football thread the other day too; real stand up move, gotta love it

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by MFaulkCollector

in what world can you try to stir sheet in every thread you post in..... knowing full well you are nothing but a nuisance; while at the same time trying to contradict everyone and ignore any facts....... oh yea, the world we live in this very second

the buyer is a piece of crap, all the facts lead to them being a scam artist and switching the card........... but you go ahead with your mental gymnastics and take the side of the douche bag

way to disappear from the college football thread the other day too; real stand up move, gotta love it

You'll be fine. If you think you can sell counterfeit cards to people and not be responsible that's on you. I'll never agree to that, even if I didn't know.

[MFaulkCollector]

Originally Posted by pgisback

You'll be fine. If you think you can sell counterfeit cards to people and not be responsible that's on you. I'll never agree to that, even if I didn't know.

the world according to you;

it's ok for me to buy a psa card...... get the item in hand, crack the case... then return a fake item in place of the actual card I bought

glad i got it straight

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by MFaulkCollector

the world according to you;

it's ok for me to buy a psa card...... get the item in hand, crack the case... then return a fake item in place of the actual card I bought

glad i got it straight

You didn't read the full thread. Maybe you should before you go spouting off nonsense looking like you usually do.

[MFaulkCollector]

Originally Posted by pgisback

You didn't read the full thread. Maybe you should before you go spouting off nonsense looking like you usually do.

you never cease to entertain me...... carry on

[pgisback]

Originally Posted by MFaulkCollector

you never cease to entertain me...... carry on

Likewise... one reason I don't have you on ignore. Love seeing what you come up with next.

[gamboooler]

Think it would matter whether or not the seller knows it's a counterfeit at the point of sale. If the seller has reason to suspect and doesn't disclose, the seller should have to eat the return in any state. If not and the buyer cracks the card out of the case, it's clearly on them. Caveat emptor.

[Blake711]

How is this any different then him buying it. Its real, he busts it sends to psa gets a 7.5 back. Now hes unhappy so breaks it back out and asks for a refund? But he will send back card and case in pieces. HE DESTROYED THE CARD when he broke the slab open.

What if he bought a classic car that said matching numbers then decided to pull engine and tranny finds starter was replaced and wants to send it back in pieces since it wasnt all orginal. This is your logic.

[pingbling23]

People really need to read the entire thread before giving their opinion....

[rats60]

Originally Posted by pgisback

A buyer should never have to "gamble" to determine if their purchase is real or not, lol. And you have no clue whether the case is even real or PSA would give any money back. The fact you do not care that the buyer got a counterfeit card and you want him to suffer the $2k loss because he learned it was counterfeit after breaking out of the case instead of while in the case is interesting. Very interesting.

The buyer should suffer the 2k loss because he busted the card out of the slab. Why should the seller have to lose 2k because of the buyer's actions? The seller bought the card graded. He didn't know it was fake. If the
buyer hadn't cracked the card, the seller could have gone back to the person he bought it from or PSA to get his money back. You are so concerned about the buyer buying a fake card, but what about the seller? Why aren't you concerned that the seller bought a fake card? Why should he be the one that eats the 2k loss when someone sold him a fake card?

[hairyangryfella]

Originally Posted by MFaulkCollector

WTF are you talking about?

if you buy a graded card and want to return it, you return a graded card

it's literally the most basic form of common sense

If you've read [literally any of] his other posts, you'd already be aware of this.

Whether the card could have been returned to PSA for their guarantee (assuming they'd graded a fake) or the original seller (selling a fake card in a fake case), the OP can literally do nothing now because the card was cracked out.
"Hey guy I bought this graded Jordan off 2 years ago, um some guy just bought it off me and said it's fake, I want my money back. But it's no longer in the case, I just have a reprint card to send back to you. When can you send me my money?"

[ari_ivy]

Not to say this helps much, but Chadwich had it correct earlier in the thread. OP didn't know it but you had a counterfeit jordan in a fake slab. I first came across the same counterfeit in a fake psa slab a couple years ago and chadwich detected it from the photos too. These fakes look undergraded and prime candidates for resubmitting... if only they were real.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...M5aNrCXjHXRdYv

[PelicanFly]

Originally Posted by rats60

No, what is scary is a buyer can destroy the value of an item and then return it and get his money back. Don't you understand that he is screwing the seller? He was sent a 2k card and is getting back a worthless one. Would you feel the same if the card was trimmed instead of fake? At what point does the buyer have to take responsibility for his gamble of crack and resubmit?

The seller has done nothing wrong. He bought a PSA graded card, trusting their opinion. He sold the card trusting their opinion. If the buyer doesn't agree with PSA, he should have returned the card as he bought it.

You break it, you buy it. Simple as that.

A card is worth more graded than raw. The buyer literally sent the seller an item worth less money and got away with it. Real or fake, this cannot and should not happen in this hobby. Plus, who the hell cracks case on a card worth this much(and is faked this often) without inspecting it first. It's sadistic...

[Archangel1775]

Interesting story. Definitely would like to hear the results. Maybe someone can send Glen an email to his work address

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by ari_ivy

Not to say this helps much, but Chadwich had it correct earlier in the thread. OP didn't know it but you had a counterfeit jordan in a fake slab. I first came across the same counterfeit in a fake psa slab a couple years ago and chadwich detected it from the photos too. These fakes look undergraded and prime candidates for resubmitting... if only they were real.



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...M5aNrCXjHXRdYv

That's crazy! So OP probably bought it around that time too. And if it was the same seller then maybe that's the true scammer. What other dirt did you have on the seller?

And how sure are you the slab and slip were counterfeited? TBP kept saying the font was off but there was no real breakdown of how to identify a fake PSA slab/slip. Was it just the fact that it was such an old grade but a newer high-end counterfeit?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[KingInTheNorth]

Originally Posted by ari_ivy

Not to say this helps much, but Chadwich had it correct earlier in the thread. OP didn't know it but you had a counterfeit jordan in a fake slab. I first came across the same counterfeit in a fake psa slab a couple years ago and chadwich detected it from the photos too. These fakes look undergraded and prime candidates for resubmitting... if only they were real.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...M5aNrCXjHXRdYv

Wow...

good thing the masses didn't grab the pitchforks and go after the buyer.

[johnyensmith123]

Originally Posted by rats60

Yes, PSA will buy back fake cards that they grade as authentic. Several years ago, PSA graded fake Magie error cards and when they were discovered PSA bought one back for over 16K.

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=27012

Earlier this month we published a report about the two bogus T206 Sherry Magie error cards that were authenticated and encapsulated by PSA and then offered for sale at Mile High Card Co. and in Probstein123’s eBay auction. Joe Orlando of PSA bought back the fake sold at Mile High for over $16,000 while Rick Probstein withdrew the other fake from his sale and sent it back to the PSA offices in California.

Really? If that's really true, I was wrong in my interpretation. Thanks for the info, I had thought I understood correctly. Would you mind also linking to the other article you were referencing? The link you posted doesn't seem to say PSA bought it back.

[KhalDrogo]

Guys. There's this thing call an ignore button. Feel free to use it on the troll.