Magic the Gathering and Marvel Collaboration

[Brobocop]

Watched some CBB opening videos and while the cards look phenomenal, the price point is going to wipe people out. If secondary market interest doesn't pick up, or there is just a general rebuke of this set from players, people buying wax to resell or invest in might have some tax loss harvesting opportunities.

[BoSoxFan1999]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

people buying wax to resell or invest in might have some tax loss harvesting opportunities.

Good.

[Brobocop]

Amazon had CBBs up for a few hours this AM. Landed one for $455 with 5% cash back, felt like I couldn't pass that up.

[tomahawk]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

Amazon had CBBs up for a few hours this AM. Landed one for $455 with 5% cash back, felt like I couldn't pass that up.

Well, you are basically guaranteed to never find it cheaper seeing as how that's MSRP, so nice pickup.

There was a poster earlier who said that Magic players are out of touch with the larger general card market. I won't offer a strong disagreement as there is some truth to the statement, but I'll add that using Pokemon as a reference point for the Magic market is pretty misguided as the two are different in so many ways.

Whereas the collector/flipper/card show guy population has for a long time and still does comprise the majority of Pokemon buyers (sealed and singles), Magic has always been and remains - unlike Pokemon - a player's game first and foremost.

It sure feels like Wizards would be very happy for the Magic market to exist in closer relation to Pokemon's, and sets like Final Fantasy have given us a glimpse of what that could look like, but generally speaking, today, the player base still drives the sales.

And the truth is the player base is roundly rejecting the Spiderman set as weak and uninteresting in every way other than honoring the IP through the card art choices. (Presumably and uncoincidentally what the non-players will be valuing the most.)

Hence, why I stated earlier that this set will really test the threshold of what Wizards can get away with in an exorbitantly priced set that roundly turns off players but appeals to the collectors. No prior UB set has quite polarized in that respect like this one seems to be.

The fact Amazon is dumping collector boxes a week out of release for MSRP speaks volumes. This was probably printed to the moon and hasn't sold nearly what anyone anticipated it would.

I'm sure given a long enough timeline CBB prices will rise as that's always the case, but I anticipate that stock will be plentiful and heavy and will exist in the MSRP-space for quite a while, with all attention turning to Avatar very quickly.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by tomahawk

Well, you are basically guaranteed to never find it cheaper seeing as how that's MSRP, so nice pickup.

There was a poster earlier who said that Magic players are out of touch with the larger general card market. I won't offer a strong disagreement as there is some truth to the statement, but I'll add that using Pokemon as a reference point for the Magic market is pretty misguided as the two are different in so many ways.

Whereas the collector/flipper/card show guy population has for a long time and still does comprise the majority of Pokemon buyers (sealed and singles), Magic has always been and remains - unlike Pokemon - a player's game first and foremost.

It sure feels like Wizards would be very happy for the Magic market to exist in closer relation to Pokemon's, and sets like Final Fantasy have given us a glimpse of what that could look like, but generally speaking, today, the player base still drives the sales.

And the truth is the player base is roundly rejecting the Spiderman set as weak and uninteresting in every way other than honoring the IP through the card art choices. (Presumably and uncoincidentally what the non-players will be valuing the most.)

Hence, why I stated earlier that this set will really test the threshold of what Wizards can get away with in an exorbitantly priced set that roundly turns off players but appeals to the collectors. No prior UB set has quite polarized in that respect like this one seems to be.

The fact Amazon is dumping collector boxes a week out of release for MSRP speaks volumes. This was probably printed to the moon and hasn't sold nearly what anyone anticipated it would.

I'm sure given a long enough timeline CBB prices will rise as that's always the case, but I anticipate that stock will be plentiful and heavy and will exist in the MSRP-space for quite a while, with all attention turning to Avatar very quickly.

100% agree and I'm not sure I'll open the box once it gets here. I figured that with pre-release this weekend, we'll have a very good idea of how the set is being received. I'll be curious to see what happens when the first cosmic foil Soul Stone gets hit and sells.

[ohio_mba]

These are in stock at Amazon for MSRP.

Preorder

I was able to order 2. They had a pretty big restock earlier.

[Brobocop]

Still in stock, not a good sign for investor bois, wonder what's going on?

[tomahawk]

Take this for what it's worth, but a poster in the MTGFinance reddit group who supposedly runs one of the larger Pokemon discords is claiming that the Pokemon flippers who bought up Spiderman collector boxes early on are all cancelling their pre-orders en masse since it's become evident that the set is not going over well and will almost certainly come nowhere close to replicating Final Fantasy's trajectory. Speculation is this is where the new Amazon stock came from.

[Fenian95]

Yes. The investor bros finally figured out that there is no $100K card in this set and are abandoning ship rapidly.

This is a set for Spider Man fans mostly. Even the Foil Soul Stone's cost is under the inflated CBB price.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by Fenian95

Yes. The investor bros finally figured out that there is no $100K card in this set and are abandoning ship rapidly.

This is a set for Spider Man fans mostly. Even the Foil Soul Stone's cost is under the inflated CBB price.

The two chase Soul Stones are driving the boat, not the regular treatment.

[Kobefan]

Originally Posted by Brobocop

Still in stock, not a good sign for investor bois, wonder what's going on?

I don't know if you're just lucky or if you have some sort of restock alert, cause every time I checked Amazon, it's sold out.

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by Kobefan

I don't know if you're just lucky or if you have some sort of restock alert, cause every time I checked Amazon, it's sold out.

I frequent a few MTG subs on Reddit so they always pop up at the top when I open the app.

[dunquixote1]

I’m the one who made the comment about Magic collectors being out of touch with the overall card market. I still stand by that. I think there’s a lot of forces at work with this release.

First of all, this set isn’t readily available at MSRP. I follow every single outlet that posts when items drop and I’ve still struck out every time. They’re selling out within minutes when they become available. So the narrative there isn’t high demand - well, that’s not true. And I know you didn’t say that directly. But on subreddits that is the narrative being pushed and man, trust me, trying to get this near MSRP is an mfer. Prices have come down but I think that’s from a slew of cancelled preorders and cold feet from (yes) pokebros and investors. People were preordering CBBs first $800, $900, $1000. All those preorders are getting cancelled and it’s partially flooding the market all at once.

I do think a large part of the price spiking up on this was it being on the heels of FF. I do think resellers thought they’d catch lightning in bottle with this. And while it’s not selling for what FF sold for - it’s still selling out on many sites for 25-35% above MSRP.

Regarding how MTG purists view it, yeah, they aren’t receiving it well (or at least the ones that aren’t are being super vocal). I’ve been into Magic a short time. And I’ll say one knock against it is that it doesn’t feel very welcoming so far (in my short exposure). I think the purists don’t like the potential attention an IP like Marvel can bring it. Plus they are a tad bitter that their once ignored hobby (by the mainstream card collector) is starting to get some attention which is driving the cost of entry up. And look I get it, that sucks! It’s like collecting baseball cards now is soooo much more expensive than it was when I got back into it in like 2015/2016. But all said and done, there’s pros and cons to it. Plus, there does seem to be concerns about how playable many of the cards are. But I actually don’t feel that’s the root of the vocal hate. Like what kind of brigade are you on to be so vocal just because a set doesn’t seem super playable? Just don’t buy it.

Look, I think the set is fun and exposes the game to more people. Admittedly, it doesn’t mesh with Magic as well as LOTR or FF. Those IPs are like peas and a pod with the type of personality that plays magic. I just think some of the hate this set is getting is super forced and I’ll deny this set is anywhere near ‘readily available’.

In the end, all we’ll be able to do is review this release in hindsight.

[sandyfrank]

I feel like they should do a Doctor Strange MTG set, much more of a Magic type theme with all the sorcerers and magic lore. And of course the Time Stone should be the chase in that set. A Guardians of the Galaxy Space themed set would be cool with the Space Stone (or maybe the Power stone) as a chase. An OG Avengers set would be great (this is where I would put the Power Stone but probably interchangeable with Space Stone). The final Marvel MTG set would be an Infinity War set with The Infinity Gauntlet as the big chase that could utilize all the infinity stones. An Asgard set would be nice and have the Reality Stone as a chase. An Iron Man set might be tough to make into an MTG expansion but you could put the Mind Stone in as the chase there. Anyway if the price is fair I would want a full set of Marvel MTG Collector Boxes from each set.

[Kobefan]

Originally Posted by sandyfrank

I feel like they should do a Doctor Strange MTG set, much more of a Magic type theme with all the sorcerers and magic lore. And of course the Time Stone should be the chase in that set. A Guardians of the Galaxy Space themed set would be cool with the Space Stone (or maybe the Power stone) as a chase. An OG Avengers set would be great (this is where I would put the Power Stone but probably interchangeable with Space Stone). The final Marvel MTG set would be an Infinity War set with The Infinity Gauntlet as the big chase that could utilize all the infinity stones. An Asgard set would be nice and have the Reality Stone as a chase. An Iron Man set might be tough to make into an MTG expansion but you could put the Mind Stone in as the chase there. Anyway if the price is fair I would want a full set of Marvel MTG Collector Boxes from each set.

I don't like that idea. Sounds like you want them to copy the MCU, but I think they should follow the comic books instead and preferably something similar to the 90s Marvel Cards, if not, then just use the most popular titles, which means X-men, Fantastic Four, and Avengers. Strange can be a guest star in Fantastic Four or Avengers, and the Guardians are not popular enough to warrant a set.

[Fenian95]

I pick up mine from a prerelease store tomorrow. Quite excited.

Neat little things like a 90s style 9 card puzzle of the Spider Heroes and Easter eggs will make for a fun opening.

Personally hoping for a Foil Nine Lives borderless but will likely have to buy it.

[Fenian95]

4 packs into my booster box. It's Foil.

[Ianhatcher]

Secret Lair site up for Spider-Man and can pre-queue.

More I look at these cards this is a pass from me as someone who is more on the collecting side of MTG. Nothing of interest really.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by Ianhatcher

Secret Lair site up for Spider-Man and can pre-queue.

More I look at these cards this is a pass from me as someone who is more on the collecting side of MTG. Nothing of interest really.

Bought a bunch of foil sets of Sonic and had my fun.

Passing on the Spiderman, although at least 1-2 sets look cool (just unlikely to retain much value).

Chasing the secret cards would be fun though.

[Brobocop]

CBBs down to $568 on TCGPlayer. I'm starting to feel like this is an outright rejection of the set. Cancelled my box on Amazon since it hadn't shipped yet. I bought a few packs this weekend and just was not impressed with what I got for the price ($58 per pack) so a whole box just seemed like a risk I'm not willing to take.

I like Magic, I collect Magic and am not into prospecting or investing in sealed. If singles are already collapsing, why would anyone open this at current prices?

Wonder if this causes Avatar to dip now?

[tomahawk]

I actually played the pre-release event for Spider-Man at my LGS this past Saturday, as the wife took the kids to a friends house and I backed into some unexpected free time.

There were only a handful of us who showed up to play. Keep in mind, this same LGS sold out all spots for Edge of Eternities just a short while back, and had a waitlist longer than a roll of toilet paper for Final Fantasy.

I'd say the set being rejected at this point is inarguable. The LGS had collector booster packs for days priced @ $45 and the owner said they just weren't moving, seemed to be no interest. I kinda felt bad because they clearly opened a ton of product to create a really comprehensive set binder for singles with all the fancy stuff included, and when I asked to flip through it at the end of the event they said I was the first person to even bother.

All that said, I actually had a blast at the event and the set played really well in the limited environment; the mechanics are fun and it certainly nails Marvel flavor if that's your thing. But the set's faults were also underlined, mainly that it has very few playable commander cards, and that it's just not deep at all. (Even in the very small sample size I opened - six play boosters out of my pre-release kit and nine extra prize packs for second place - many, many duplicates were pulled.)

For the record, I'm not some "purist" who rejects UB releases out of principle; I spent a ton of money on LOTR, Final Fantasy, Warhammer, etc. and some of my favorite cards in my collection comes from those sets. I think you're really reaching if you try to excuse the Spider-Man set flopping based solely on that hypothetical population who, if they exist, are a vocal minority.

The main takeaway here is that Magic isn't Pokemon or Prizm football, and the 1+1 recipe of popular IP plus big chase card is still going to have a ceiling if the overall set itself is unappealing to the larger player base, who at the end of the day are still the ones responsible for the economy of the game.

[Kobefan]

I have played two sealed events and I wanted to play a third one, but it was sold out. I can't comment on how fun it is, when compared to the other sets because I haven't played physical mtg in a long time. I have drafted almost every sets in Arena, but honestly, I feel like the Arena makes me into a worse player, with all the play timer and auto actions, so when I finally play physical draft, I feel overwhelmed and took a longtime to make decisions. I still like the set and I wouldn't mind buying CBB if it dips lower.

[Spacemanspif]

CBBs up at Amazon for $455.88. unfortunately delivery date isn't until Oct 10

[Brobocop]

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

CBBs up at Amazon for $455.88. unfortunately delivery date isn't until Oct 10

They had a similar timeframe for Edge of Eternities and I got mine in two days so folks may get them earlier than that. They've been sitting for a while now which is highly unusual for release day.

[Dacubs2]

Bought a spiderman booster box today just for giggles and have something to open when I have an itch