How did Beckett reach its impasse?

[Nomad]

Wonder as a casual to grading. Dr. James Beckett seems like a smart dude, hobby committed. How did Beckett, a hobby foundation, get sold to an owner that frauded $2 billion in assets owed to insurance policyholders? "If you're wondering why Beckett hasn't invested capital in itself, it's cause this guy basically stole it."

Just surface level, but I see parallels to Fanatics as well. Why has the hobby opted exclusively for sky pies and filthy lucre?

[GuacamoleCards]

Doesn’t take a lot of time at card shops and shows to recognize that the hobby attracts some of the dirtiest sleaze-balls around, and that’s before considering the influx of Flipper Bros. Collectibles attract the same combination of degenerate gamblers and con artists as any other unlicensed, unregulated pseudo-securities market, but it has the convenient cover of having a portion of the hobby filled with wholesome, good natured people (many of them who provide a nice mark for the the seedier members of the community).

Unfortunately there really is no rooting this out. Anywhere that there are things of value, people’s emotional attachments that aren’t completely bound to reality or rationality, and the faint illusion of a quick buck - these people will eventually come around to. It’s a grifter’s paradise and I’m afraid (for better or worse) that it is going to ultimately need to end up in a place of onerous government oversight and regulation (like any other gaming or securities market).

When all of the heads of these big companies come off just as shady as the worst members of the community… it’s really saying something.

[NBAicons]

Originally Posted by GuacamoleCards

Doesn’t take a lot of time at card shops and shows to recognize that the hobby attracts some of the dirtiest sleaze-balls around

Yup and some the sleeziest are worshipped as hobby goats.

[Asian62150]

Actually, I've found that a lot of customers that go to card shops are great. A lot of them bring their kids with them. It's a lot more tame than most card shows and ppl can take their time, talk to the shop owner, learn about the hobby, and build community.

As for Beckett, they shot themselves in the foot too many times. The whole Black Label thing back fired on them because it devalued 9.5s and it was so difficult to get a BL (unless you're Eagle Eye Joe - another huge black eye for Beckett).

[boxbuster7]

Becketts fall is one of the crazier things I've seen being around the last 15 years or so

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by boxbuster7

Becketts fall is one of the crazier things I've seen being around the last 15 years or so

Why is it crazy? As the popularity of group subs began to take off, Beckett made an active decision to not only not work with group submitters, but actually punish those who they had been working with for years. This was an obvious outcome.

[williemayshayes]

It's not as easy as just saying "set registry" but I think it really was the thing they couldn't overcome.

Back in oh 2011, BGS was the absolute go-to for ultra modern while PSA was plugging away in the vintage space. I felt like the shift would occur eventually.

If everyone zigging clamored to put their Bryce Harper into a BGS holder, the zaggers realized that a PSA 10 artificially more rare than the hundreds of BGS 9.5s. Secondly, I think we give too much credit to folks. When you see a 10 vs 9.5 and you're brand new to the game, 10 is supreme. This just caused a steady erosion in my opinion that never was corrected by BGS.

[RKH916]

Originally Posted by williemayshayes

It's not as easy as just saying "set registry" but I think it really was the thing they couldn't overcome.

Back in oh 2011, BGS was the absolute go-to for ultra modern while PSA was plugging away in the vintage space. I felt like the shift would occur eventually.

If everyone zigging clamored to put their Bryce Harper into a BGS holder, the zaggers realized that a PSA 10 artificially more rare than the hundreds of BGS 9.5s. Secondly, I think we give too much credit to folks. When you see a 10 vs 9.5 and you're brand new to the game, 10 is supreme. This just caused a steady erosion in my opinion that never was corrected by BGS.

Something weird has happened to my brain on this topic

I value a BGS 9.5 more than a PSA 10

lmao

[williemayshayes]

Originally Posted by RKH916

Something weird has happened to my brain on this topic

I value a BGS 9.5 more than a PSA 10

lmao

It 100% used to be the case.

[TheGZA]

Probably had something to do with the death of Beckett Magazine as THE source to know what your cards were worth (regardless of accuracy...obviously better to go to a card show to gauge actual value but as a kid all I knew was I loved seeing that little upward triangle next to one of my cards' prices).

Then of course the grading mistakes they made, as noted by others, above.

[NBAicons]

Originally Posted by williemayshayes

It 100% used to be the case.

RKH just joined Blowout last month. But we didn't need that information to know he is brand new to the hobby lol.

[RKH916]

Originally Posted by NBAicons

RKH just joined Blowout last month. But we didn't need that information to know he is brand new to the hobby lol.

Wrong

[NBAicons]

Fanatics should buy Beckett on the cheap like they did with PWCC.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by williemayshayes

It's not as easy as just saying "set registry" but I think it really was the thing they couldn't overcome.

Back in oh 2011, BGS was the absolute go-to for ultra modern while PSA was plugging away in the vintage space. I felt like the shift would occur eventually.

If everyone zigging clamored to put their Bryce Harper into a BGS holder, the zaggers realized that a PSA 10 artificially more rare than the hundreds of BGS 9.5s. Secondly, I think we give too much credit to folks. When you see a 10 vs 9.5 and you're brand new to the game, 10 is supreme. This just caused a steady erosion in my opinion that never was corrected by BGS.

Psa was horrible, all the smudged Harper autos would go to them so folks could avoid the dreaded 9.5/9 grade.

I still like bgs for thick cards.

[jcardstore]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned the internet. GZA basically got there without saying it

Beckett was only popular because the magazine was the only anchor for card prices. Once the internet came out Becketts price guide was worthless and subsequently the brand.

Beckett never innovated or tried to rebrand itself

[mc1]

Originally Posted by williemayshayes

It's not as easy as just saying "set registry" but I think it really was the thing they couldn't overcome.

Back in oh 2011, BGS was the absolute go-to for ultra modern while PSA was plugging away in the vintage space. I felt like the shift would occur eventually.

If everyone zigging clamored to put their Bryce Harper into a BGS holder, the zaggers realized that a PSA 10 artificially more rare than the hundreds of BGS 9.5s. Secondly, I think we give too much credit to folks. When you see a 10 vs 9.5 and you're brand new to the game, 10 is supreme. This just caused a steady erosion in my opinion that never was corrected by BGS.

Yeah, seems like even through the entire 2000-2010 decade BGS still had a large portion of the market and their slab prices were better than or equal to PSA. Id say even in the early 2010s more valuable all sports modern cards were being sent to BGS. I dont know the exact years, but probably around 2014 or so is when older cards in PSA slabs (80s-2010s) started to sell for a bit more. I do know for sure that in early 2015 PSA 10 Chrome Kobe RCs were going for about $600 and BGS 9.5 were around $425-450. Their brand just kept declining since then. Im not sure how they treated customers in terms of pricing, turn around times, group subs etc. I know also at some point many collectors started to notice that BGS grading was not as harsh or strict as PSA. Or at least those were the claims and somewhat valid. If someone compared BGS 9 vs PSA 9, for example, it was more likely the PSA copy was a bit better quality. That might have worked to elevate the PSA brand and perception.

The simplest reason for their decline is the difference in prices between their slabs and PSA. Everything else matters little in my opinion.

[asujbl]

Originally Posted by williemayshayes

It's not as easy as just saying "set registry" but I think it really was the thing they couldn't overcome.

Back in oh 2011, BGS was the absolute go-to for ultra modern while PSA was plugging away in the vintage space. I felt like the shift would occur eventually.

If everyone zigging clamored to put their Bryce Harper into a BGS holder, the zaggers realized that a PSA 10 artificially more rare than the hundreds of BGS 9.5s. Secondly, I think we give too much credit to folks. When you see a 10 vs 9.5 and you're brand new to the game, 10 is supreme. This just caused a steady erosion in my opinion that never was corrected by BGS.

Most of this

Registry is the biggest miss BGS ever had. Rich people love to have junk measuring contests… and the registry is the ultimate for that

And then the 9.5 was always super dumb

People want 10’s even if the card is the exact same

Collectors are OCD and love to measure dongs

These are universal truths

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by mc1

Yeah, seems like even through the entire 2000-2010 decade BGS still had a large portion of the market and their slab prices were better than or equal to PSA. Id say even in the early 2010s more valuable all sports modern cards were being sent to BGS. I dont know the exact years, but probably around 2014 or so is when older cards in PSA slabs (80s-2010s) started to sell for a bit more. I do know for sure that in early 2015 PSA 10 Chrome Kobe RCs were going for about $600 and BGS 9.5 were around $425-450. Their brand just kept declining since then. Im not sure how they treated customers in terms of pricing, turn around times, group subs etc. I know also at some point many collectors started to notice that BGS grading was not as harsh or strict as PSA. Or at least those were the claims and somewhat valid. If someone compared BGS 9 vs PSA 9, for example, it was more likely the PSA copy was a bit better quality. That might have worked to elevate the PSA brand and perception.

The simplest reason for their decline is the difference in prices between their slabs and PSA. Everything else matters little in my opinion.

PSA was never a bit better quality in terms of grading accuracy, it was primarily an influencer thing.

Both companies were horrendously inconsistent with their grading standards.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

PSA was never a bit better quality in terms of grading accuracy, it was primarily an influencer thing.

Both companies were horrendously inconsistent with their grading standards.

I thought that was true for a long time but changed my mind years ago after talking to some collectors and my LCS. After seeing their results too. LCS owner would often send cards that PSA rejected for min size or alterations to BGS and they would always slab them. Happened with 86-87 Fleer Jordans and others. He would also take cards he had submitted to and graded PSA 5 or 6 and crack, send to BGS and get 7-8. Others also had caught on to that. Saw it all with my own eyes!

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by mc1

I thought that was true for a long time but changed my mind years ago after talking to some collectors and my LCS. After seeing their results too. LCS owner would often send cards that PSA rejected for min size or alterations to BGS and they would always slab them. Happened with 86-87 Fleer Jordans and others. He would also take cards he had submitted to and graded PSA 5 or 6 and crack, send to BGS and get 7-8. Others also had caught on to that. Saw it all with my own eyes!

I’ve seen it the other way too.

All in all, neither is very good.

If any grading company was too good or too stingy, they would run out of business, unfortunately.

[jplarson]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

As the popularity of group subs began to take off, Beckett made an active decision to not only not work with group submitters, but actually punish those who they had been working with for years. This was an obvious outcome.

Agreed, the group sub I was with died off thanks to these practices.

Originally Posted by mc1

Yeah, seems like even through the entire 2000-2010 decade BGS still had a large portion of the market and their slab prices were better than or equal to PSA. Id say even in the early 2010s more valuable all sports modern cards were being sent to BGS. I dont know the exact years, but probably around 2014 or so is when older cards in PSA slabs (80s-2010s) started to sell for a bit more. I do know for sure that in early 2015 PSA 10 Chrome Kobe RCs were going for about $600 and BGS 9.5 were around $425-450. Their brand just kept declining since then. Im not sure how they treated customers in terms of pricing, turn around times, group subs etc. I know also at some point many collectors started to notice that BGS grading was not as harsh or strict as PSA. Or at least those were the claims and somewhat valid. If someone compared BGS 9 vs PSA 9, for example, it was more likely the PSA copy was a bit better quality. That might have worked to elevate the PSA brand and perception.

The simplest reason for their decline is the difference in prices between their slabs and PSA. Everything else matters little in my opinion.

I still like their slabs better but only one-off PC stuff goes there anymore. Almost anything I would consider selling off route straight to PSA

Originally Posted by asujbl

Most of this

Registry is the biggest miss BGS ever had. Rich people love to have junk measuring contests… and the registry is the ultimate for that

And then the 9.5 was always super dumb

People want 10’s even if the card is the exact same

Collectors are OCD and love to measure dongs

These are universal truths

And this is the other reason PSA gets PC stuff. I like the registry and I like they have reps who actually answer emails.

[msink28]

Just read the "New BGS turnaround time tracker" thread on this site and you'll see why BGS failed.

[Brazenways]

This has got to the best timed email of all-time - received this am from Beckett.

~~~

Safeguard Your Collectibles

Beckett, in partnership with CIS, aims to provide collectors with comprehensive protection and insurance services for their collectibles at competitive prices.

[stryk]

I think the downfall started when they changed their message boards. I still can’t believe they made that decision.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by stryk

I think the downfall started when they changed their message boards. I still can’t believe they made that decision.

I agree with that.

Also Beckett auctions revealed a lot of shenanigans which killed their reputation.