ESE returned for additional postage

[paparoke]

So of the hundreds of ESE shipments I've sent out, I got my first 2 back requiring additional postage. See the scans. Little background, I typically send cards in a toploader with team bag wrap in a half sheet of paper for 1oz(64 cents), while anything thicker, I usually go 2oz(88 cents) or if it's a jersey card that isn't too thick I go 3 oz(1.12).

In these cases it was 64 & 88 cents. The actually problem wasn't clearly given, but I just reprinted 2 labels for $1.12 each. I'm treating this as a one off situation and will continue the status quo, but if it continues, I might have to send everything at $1.12, which I don't want to do. I'm fairly certain that I meet all the specs for ESE shipments with the rigidity being the only possible subjective violation. I saw in a different thread that people use cardsavers instead of toploaders and I'm planning to try that as well. Anyone else deal with this situation and any tips to reduce these? I did notice that there were a single ballpoint pen mark on the bottom left of both envelopes and wasn't sure if that meant anything.

***update*** I see now that these are marked for non-machining and that is what the surcharge is for. Which leads me to another question: If it is non-machinable, does the envelope still get a scan?

[griffan15]

There’s no rhyme or reason for these. I’ve sent thousands, had maybe 20 returned for various reasons. Reprinted the same exact label and remailed. Out of those, only 1 came back again.

[paparoke]

Originally Posted by griffan15

There’s no rhyme or reason for these. I’ve sent thousands, had maybe 20 returned for various reasons. Reprinted the same exact label and remailed. Out of those, only 1 came back again.

I didn't think to just reprint the label, I'll try that first next time. Just lame that they came back and seem to be within the standard. Maybe I just caught a postal worker during a bad day, but it seems like more work for them to affix the discrepancy label, than to just send it through.

[rynobot]

I use top loaders all the time. This only happens when a Rogue employee is being an #@#@#@#@#@#@#@.

[JeffG1954]

Originally Posted by paparoke

I didn't think to just reprint the label, I'll try that first next time. Just lame that they came back and seem to be within the standard. Maybe I just caught a postal worker during a bad day, but it seems like more work for them to affix the discrepancy label, than to just send it through.

It's likely the top loader that caused the problem....they really are too rigid to go thru the sorting machines, but 99% of them do anyway. As mentioned in other threads....you can pay the extra for non-machinable, you can write on the envelope NON-MACHINABLE, but most are going to go thru the sorting machine anyway. The pen line might be marking the edge of the top loader....they do create a bit of a lip, and they can jam up the sorting machine. Card savers do not create that problem and are more flexible.....I have not had any come back out of many 1000s shipped since the program started over 2 years ago.

If they don't pass thru the sorting machine that will not be scanned.

[mogwai316]

This just happens a small percentage of the time, usually from a particular post office or particular employee who has for some misguided reason decided to "take a stand". Paying for additional weight is just throwing away money. If an envelope with a card weighs less than 1 ounce then just pay the 1 ounce rate. Thickness has nothing to do with the postage cost, only weight does. Paying extra for non-machinable is different but as others have said, it's also just throwing away money because 99% of the time they run it through the machine regardless. I use top loaders and less than 1 out of 1000 on average have I had a buyer get charged for postage due, and when I do it's not a big deal - I just refund them the 44 cents or whatever they got charged. I recommend to stop throwing away money paying for extra weight that you are not sending, and just accept that this is going to happen a very small percentage of the time and you might occasionally have to refund a buyer. If it starts happening a lot then maybe reassess your packaging, but it doesn't sound like you're packaging is much different than what I do.

[rynobot]

Top loaders are flexible, I bend them all the time...

[shrevecity]

Originally Posted by rynobot

Top loaders are flexible, I bend them all the time...

Thats not what matters though if it does not allow it to flex through the machine it can snag. The whole too rigid not rigid issue is very opinionated there is no real standard. We have one local PO that ANY of these will get returned if you mail them through that branch. So you have to avoid that branch.

If it happens at your local end then you may have more issues with them. If its at the receiving end the issue is not going to affect you that much.

[rynobot]

I don't have issues...

[prospectorgems]

Originally Posted by rynobot

I use top loaders all the time. This only happens when a Rogue employee is being an #@#@#@#@#@#@#@.

Yes, this right here. I don't think I actually got a returned one for additional postage in well over a year. Always use top loaders and have send out thousands this way since the program became available.

I had one the other day where the buyer reached out stating it had the additional postage stamp on it and then was crossed out by someone at the post office. So it was probably some postal moron that did it and then corrected by someone else.

Edit: Like someone else had mentioned, I just reprinted the labels and resent and had no issues. I think you only have the ability however to reprint in 30-days.

[waytoomanycards]

Originally Posted by prospectorgems

Yes, this right here. I don't think I actually got a returned one for additional postage in well over a year. Always use top loaders and have send out thousands this way since the program became available.

I had one the other day where the buyer reached out stating it had the additional postage stamp on it and then was crossed out by someone at the post office. So it was probably some postal moron that did it and then corrected by someone else.

Edit: Like someone else had mentioned, I just reprinted the labels and resent and had no issues. I think you only have the ability however to reprint in 30-days.

My PO just ignores the postage due stamps on ese's. They'll just place them in my po box even if the seller blatantly broke the guidelines. I've been seeing a lot of bubble mailers with these labels lately that are packaged just like ground packages.

[rwperu34]

Originally Posted by waytoomanycards

My PO just ignores the postage due stamps on ese's. They'll just place them in my po box even if the seller blatantly broke the guidelines. I've been seeing a lot of bubble mailers with these labels lately that are packaged just like ground packages.

Last month I got a graded card in an ese.

[Bosoxfan5990]

Originally Posted by rwperu34

Last month I got a graded card in an ese.

Did it happen to be from an MLB umpire?

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1552292

[Eric1285]

Most likely just the result of an uninformed employee. There is an actual USPS standard for non-machinable standards. I don't recall the exact details, but it basically involves putting the envelope on a flat surface with part of it hanging over the edge, and seeing how much it's able to bend. Properly packaged, toploaders up to 55pt have no problem passing this test.

You can find videos of the USPS letter sorting machines online to see how tight of a bend letters go through. A top loader is short enough that it only needs to flex a little bit to pass through the sorting machines. Factor in the fact that these machines aren't exactly ultra-high precision (and probably have a bit of slack in their belts due to age, lack of maintenance, etc.) and most stuff ends up passing through the sorting machine without a problem, even if it doesn't exactly meet the guidelines for what's machinable vs. not.

tl;dr: Standard thickness toploaders shouldn't be a problem. Probably just bad luck with an uninformed employee or post office.

[colfix87]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

Did it happen to be from an MLB umpire?

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1552292

Incredible thread, thanks for linking.

As to OP's issue, I also use toploaders for my ESE sales. Get this exact issue on maybe one in every 200-ish I send out? Last time I had one of these I decided to go in and try to pay the 44 cents instead of re-printing a label since I already had to go drop packages that day. The clerk I talked to looked at my envelope, said something like "that's weird, this is fine," then said he'd take care of it. Went through fine after that.

[rwperu34]

I just got a neutral for postage due. Buyer never contacted me or anything, just left the neutral.

[paparoke]

And another one smh. All while another 30 or so went through without issue...

[rynobot]

I use top loaders for all my ESE orders and I receive more ESEs back for undeliverable address 10× as often as postage due.

[paparoke]

Originally Posted by rynobot

I use top loaders for all my ESE orders and I receive more ESEs back for undeliverable address 10× as often as postage due.

Yeah it's crazy and unacceptable. We're paying customers following the allowable specs and getting punished for nothing. On a separate note, I was just going to reprint the label, but it turns out I didn't have that option, so had to repurchase one. I still did 64 cents. From now on I will download the labels and if one comes back, I will just reprint from there.

[rynobot]

Originally Posted by paparoke

Yeah it's crazy and unacceptable. We're paying customers following the allowable specs and getting punished for nothing. On a separate note, I was just going to reprint the label, but it turns out I didn't have that option, so had to repurchase one. I still did 64 cents. From now on I will download the labels and if one comes back, I will just reprint from there.

Yeah, it sucks that they can't get on the same page with what is a "standard envelope" I had my difficulties at first but eventually found the best method that worked for me. I use the long #10 envelopes. I don't buy them from Walmart, the ones at Walmart are too thin. I order 500 for around $25 from Amazon.

[shrevecity]

Originally Posted by paparoke

Yeah it's crazy and unacceptable. We're paying customers following the allowable specs and getting punished for nothing. On a separate note, I was just going to reprint the label, but it turns out I didn't have that option, so had to repurchase one. I still did 64 cents. From now on I will download the labels and if one comes back, I will just reprint from there.

You are not getting punished. If it gets returned you are still covered if the buyer does not get it. I would not do the reprint of the label. Once the tracking is used the system could flag it and either charge you again or could lead to other issues. You may get away with it a time or 100 but one catch could cause problems.

As far as non deliverable depending on what tracking says you may not be liable at all for it. I would consider it the same as a package that is undeliverable through GA. once it gets returned to sender Ebay considers it delivered. When I get those back I message the buyer if they want it they have to pay shipping again. If they want a refund then I refund minus the shipping costs.

[rynobot]

Return to sender are not guaranteed to be marked delivered...

[shrevecity]

Originally Posted by rynobot

Return to sender are not guaranteed to be marked delivered...

You are still covered by the pip as well. If it's returned undeliverable that is on the buyer to get with you to fix. They need to repay shipping

Probably had 3 returned undeliverable and only 1 returned for postage due sucked it up printed a new label and it went just fine. If doing that 1 time in every 1000 or more is going to break you, you got bigger issues than ese issues

[SteelPen2]

Originally Posted by waytoomanycards

My PO just ignores the postage due stamps on ese's. They'll just place them in my po box even if the seller blatantly broke the guidelines. I've been seeing a lot of bubble mailers with these labels lately that are packaged just like ground packages.

Yeah I have been getting a few bubble mailers with ESE labels on them with no postage due or anything.

[tdbaseballcards]

I had one returned that was marked as delivered at the buyers location. Had no idea it was coming back until it showed up in my informed delivery. Buyer didn't reach out. Card was damaged as well when I opened it up. Ugh. It didn't even say how much postage was due.