Is Kyle Schwarber a HOFer?

[JRX]

Originally Posted by Stifle

Regular season Reggie .262 BA over 560 HR’s with a MVP, 4xHR, 1xRBI, 5xStrike Out, only 2x over 30 2B, could steal but wasn’t great 2 to 1 in attempts.

Post Season Reggie Jackson where he claimed his fame - 2xMVP World Series, Post Season - .278, 18 HR’s, 41 runs, 48 RBI’s. His WPA is 1.19.

At the age of 34 and 36 as a DH, Reggie came in 2nd and 6th in the AL MVP race.

Could Schwarber possibly come up with a like resume, I doubt it but his Post Season numbers could elevate especially if he continues helping Phily win. Kyle’s post season resume is .246, 40 runs, 33 RBI’s and 20 HR’s with a 1.25 WPA.

So we're just hand waving 563 hr now?

Sent from my SM-A546U1 using Tapatalk

[itsbaytime]

Yeah, wtf? When Reggie retired he was SIXTH all time in HRS and a 14 Time All Star. How are these 2 players even comparable? This has to be a troll job or you are, in fact, Joe Buck.

[base set]

Name a better Emergency Back-Up Catcher:

[IMG] 2014 Bowman Draft Picks & Prospects - [Base] #DP2 - Kyle Schwarber Courtesy of COMC.com[/IMG]

Come next Thursday night when the Umpire that Verlander has shouted at too much in his career awards the Schwarbster a Walk and he then makes JV throw over to first, twice, 1.3 million Americans will be glued to their TV screens, cuz

[IMG] 2013 Panini USA Baseball Box Set - Collegiate National Team Memorabilia Signatures #18 - Kyle Schwarber /99 Courtesy of COMC.com[/IMG]

Here he comes, heading straight into the Taco Hall of Fame. Grab that TacoFractor now, before it’s too late.

Reggie Jackson won’t be there waiting for him; he minds the door at the Candy Bar Hall of Fame, munching all the leftover Miggy Bitbits. Schwarber better get in gear this offseason, melting chocolate in his kitchen. I heard Kruk will volunteer to do the taste testing.

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by itsbaytime

Yeah, wtf? When Reggie retired he was SIXTH all time in HRS and a 14 Time All Star. How are these 2 players even comparable? This has to be a troll job or you are, in fact, Joe Buck.

14 x All Star is impressive and Schwarber will never reach. Schwarber as a fielder couldn’t keep his body healthy enough or have his fielding be good enough to stay on the field. As a DH, he has a punchers opportunity, especially just one game away from the WS.

Just curious, if Philly wins this series, who is voted MVP and I realize the next game or two are pivotal?

As far as a previous post replied, 563 isn’t a “give me” and that is a flat out true statement ! As a DH the past two seasons, hitting over 93 home runs is a give me that production! As a lead off hitter with more opportunities ? ? ? The downside - 30 years old and not many players produce the way Reggie did afterwards, that’s a fact.

Odds are definitely against him and as of today. Not even close ! If he wins multiple Post Season MVP’s this season, the odds change a little bit.

[itsbaytime]

OK, now I know you are trolling. No one cares about LCS MVPs in any HOF conversation. I will leave you to your Schwarber Circle Jerk. I hope it works out for you.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by Stifle

He doesn’t meet todays current analytical criteria - WAR. WAR is a accumulation of stats in non situational opportunities “no such thing as clutch, post season is too short to analyze”.

Schwarber is everything WAR is not, he bats in the lead off position. WAR gives value to accumulating : Stolen Bases, Taking Extra Bases, Walks, Hits, Doubles, Triples, Fielding, etc. Kyle is so far away from what Ronald Acuna receives in WAR that he will be analyzed for not creating more opportunities. That is what WAR is, accumulating opportunities. Schwarber thrives on hitting home runs at the top of the lineup where he can put his team in the lead.

WAR is taking away the value of having a Reggie Jackson like player. That is the closest comparison to Schwarber I can make. His numbers are triangular in a circle analytics. He doesn’t fit todays standards of value. Is he valuable, extremely.

Has Schwarber done everything Reggie did, no, but he is still performing.

Stifle, this is simply wrong on so many levels. WAR captures Schwarber’s value just fine.

His defense is what kills him. His DRS (Defensive Runs Saved) were -20 in his ~100 games in the OF, plus a -8 position adjustment, so -28 total. Reggie was never that bad. His worst season defensively was when he was a slow 36 year old full time OF in his first season with the Angels and even then he was -18 in 36 more games.

If Schwarber had simply DHed all season, his WAR would have been around 2.0. But that’s not how he was used. Instead the Phillies had to suffer with him in the field. Schwarber is not a Reggie Jackson type of player except maybe when Reggie was a slow, plodding DH with the Angels. And in Reggie’s 5 years there at the end of his career, he posted just 3.5 WAR combined.

[hxcmilkshake]

Ah , Stifle.going off the rails again. Mention JD Martinez and his head will explode.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[Jed Clampett]

Rumor around MLB is……..TROUTY/ACUNA are currently wearing Kyle Schwarber pajamas to bed. 🤘👍🏆

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Stifle, this is simply wrong on so many levels. WAR captures Schwarber’s value just fine.

His defense is what kills him. His DRS (Defensive Runs Saved) were -20 in his ~100 games in the OF, plus a -8 position adjustment, so -28 total. Reggie was never that bad. His worst season defensively was when he was a slow 36 year old full time OF in his first season with the Angels and even then he was -18 in 36 more games.

If Schwarber had simply DHed all season, his WAR would have been around 2.0. But that’s not how he was used. Instead the Phillies had to suffer with him in the field. Schwarber is not a Reggie Jackson type of player except maybe when Reggie was a slow, plodding DH with the Angels. And in Reggie’s 5 years there at the end of his career, he posted just 3.5 WAR combined.

Skip, I have always enjoyed the way you debate ! I give you respect as well as many members who do research and who actually witnessed these performers.

Honestly, Reggie had a very strong arm and could throw out base runners. Bottom line, there is a reason why he was the leader as a RF for errors 8 times during his American League career. There is a reason why Reggie doesn’t have a single GG next to his resume. He had adequate fielding range in RF. There is a reason he played roughly 35% of his career games as a non positional player. At one time Jackson could run, but he also ran himself into the dugout with his opportunities.

What is Schwarber WAR value in the Post Season compared to Betts ? The season lasts till the season is over ! WAR ends in the regular season, but the season doesn’t !

Reggie Jackson didn’t shy away from the biggest moments or in the biggest market ! Schwarber in Chicago and Phily has done it when it matters.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by Stifle

Regular season Reggie .262 BA over 560 HR’s with a MVP, 4xHR, 1xRBI, 5xStrike Out, only 2x over 30 2B, could steal but wasn’t great 2 to 1 in attempts.

Post Season Reggie Jackson where he claimed his fame - 2xMVP World Series, Post Season - .278, 18 HR’s, 41 runs, 48 RBI’s. His WPA is 1.19.

At the age of 34 and 36 as a DH, Reggie came in 2nd and 6th in the AL MVP race.

Could Schwarber possibly come up with a like resume, I doubt it but his Post Season numbers could elevate especially if he continues helping Phily win. Kyle’s post season resume is .246, 40 runs, 33 RBI’s and 20 HR’s with a 1.25 WPA.

Reggie Jackson was also a 14 time all star, had over 2500 hits, over 1500 runs scored, 1702 RBI, 460 doubles. Reggie only played in 17 playoff series and 77 playoff games. Outside of 1981, only 2 teams made the playoffs from each league. Schwarber has played in 18 playoff series and 63 games. If Schwarber was playing under the same playoff format Jackson was, he's not even making the playoffs.

So no, Reggie Jackson is not even close to a fair comparison

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by whitmm

Reggie Jackson was also a 14 time all star, had over 2500 hits, over 1500 runs scored, 1702 RBI, 460 doubles. Reggie only played in 17 playoff series and 77 playoff games. Outside of 1981, only 2 teams made the playoffs from each league. Schwarber has played in 18 playoff series and 63 games. If Schwarber was playing under the same playoff format Jackson was, he's not even making the playoffs.

So no, Reggie Jackson is not even close to a fair comparison

Reggie played roughly 10 more seasons than what Schwarber therefore his stat sheet should be filled.

As far as playing under the same format, Jackson had a 12 team AL format when he began. Of course MLB had a different format, every league evolves to create a better format. Todays league has 15 teams on both sides. There was no inter league play. You are correct, a much easier format in understanding opposing pitchers.

As far as playing more Post Season games, players need to perform well in order to have (Jackson) 318 Plate Appearances because of a 1.19 WPA or (Schwarber) 251 plate appearances with a 1.25 WPA. The Post Season isn’t about equality that WAR is based on. There is no equal opportunity measurements. Opportunities at this time of the year are created by producing in critical moments. It’s entirely different format that some player flourish and others flop !

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by Stifle

Reggie played roughly 10 more seasons than what Schwarber therefore his stat sheet should be filled.

As far as playing under the same format, Jackson had a 12 team AL format when he began. Of course MLB had a different format, every league evolves to create a better format. Todays league has 15 teams on both sides. There was no inter league play. You are correct, a much easier format in understanding opposing pitchers.

As far as playing more Post Season games, players need to perform well in order to have (Jackson) 318 Plate Appearances because of a 1.19 WPA or (Schwarber) 251 plate appearances with a 1.25 WPA. The Post Season isn’t about equality that WAR is based on. There is no equal opportunity measurements. Opportunities at this time of the year are created by producing in critical moments. It’s entirely different format that some player flourish and others flop !

Nobody said anything about WAR. You are the only one that keeps bringing it up. And you use it wrong, biggest example being you thinking it tells you who should bat lead off.

Reggie Jackson would be a hall of famer without his post season accolades. Kyle Schwarber only has his post season numbers. And last I knew, there's no "post season only" wing of the hall.

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by whitmm

Nobody said anything about WAR. You are the only one that keeps bringing it up. And you use it wrong, biggest example being you thinking it tells you who should bat lead off.

Reggie Jackson would be a hall of famer without his post season accolades. Kyle Schwarber only has his post season numbers. And last I knew, there's no "post season only" wing of the hall.

Please refer to post #3 and work your way to the present post. After you realize you made this false statement, I will then comment on your additional opinions. To state that I was the only member to utilize WAR in this debate is laughable let alone begin with utilizing WAR.

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by ottobord

The career WAR of 10 at the age of 30 says no.

Here we go. Post #3.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by Stifle

Please refer to post #3 and work your way to the present post. After you realize you made this false statement, I will then comment on your additional opinions. To state that I was the only member to utilize WAR in this debate is laughable let alone begin with utilizing WAR.

You have been the only continually referencing it. Nobody is the conversation over the last day or couple hours was using it. But you decided to bring it up again like it was relevant in any way.

But hey, you keep stressing WPA, just another measurement in the WAR category. Nevermind that before the last 2 games, Schwarber was under 1, just as a reference of how easily it can drastically swing.

Kyle Schwarber is not a Reggie Jackson level player and Kyle Schwarber is not close to being a hall of famer.

But hey, keep thinking WAR tells you where you should hit someone in a lineup. Have a day

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by Stifle

Here we go.

You better use postseason WPA has your comeback, it's the only one you have.

You think Philly management doesn't use any type of WAR-like analytics in their decision making, please stop talking

[whitmm]

Khris Davis had a 3 year stretch where he hit .247 with 40+ homers and 100+ RBI each season. I guess he should be in the HOF, right? That one more year than what HOF lock Kyle Schwarber (according to Stifle) has done.

Luis Gonzalez had a walk off game winning hit in game 7 of the World Series. That is literally the most clutch you can get. I guess Stifle must think he should be in the hall as well

Or since postseason WPA seems to be Stifle's end all be all stat for deciding if someone is HOF worthy or not, here's a couple more that have higher PS WPAs than Schwarber and, therefore, he must think should be in: David Freese, Lenny Dykstra, Alex Gordon, Edgardo Alfonso, James Loney.

[JRX]

Adam Dunn has to get in first.

Sent from my SM-A546U1 using Tapatalk

[bmann33]

I think this should be The Official Schwarber thread now...fill it with pics of tasty Schwarbers

[green4407]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

whitmm is right. rWAR for Hedges is -1.1 and Schwarber is 0.7. There is no measurement that is suggesting Hedges was better than Schwarber. fWAR has them essentially the same.



In the end, playing Schwarber in the field nearly negates any offensive value he has. Forget Hedges, essentially, Schwarber was near replacement level this season.



If Schwarber had played DH exclusively this season, his rWAR would have been around 2.0. His defense was that bad.

OK so fwar says Hedges would have 1.5 war if only these darned teams had let him be a full time starter.

Realmuto had a 1.5 war. Schwarber 1.4.

Skips, are you saying the Phillies would be just as good with two Hedges instead of JT and Schwarber?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills even debating such a ridiculous argument.

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by green4407

OK so fwar says Hedges would have 1.5 war if only these darned teams had let him be a full time starter.

Realmuto had a 1.5 war. Schwarber 1.4.

Skips, are you saying the Phillies would be just as good with two Hedges instead of JT and Schwarber?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills even debating such a ridiculous argument.

You are the one that started the argument. In fact, everyone told you the board you were looking at was incorrect and you refused to accept that. Nobody was debating you. And here again, you came up all of those hypotheticals on your own, Skip didn't say any of that.

Yeah, you must be in crazy pills, because you are debating yourself

[green4407]

Originally Posted by whitmm

If Hedges had the same number of innings, yeah, I'd believe that his defense and lack of offense was similar to Schwarber's offense and terrible defense.

Oh you didn't say that huh?

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by green4407

Oh you didn't say that huh?

But he didn't and therefore he wasn't. Not that hard to understand. You are the only one to suggest Hedges was better this season based on actual numbers.

But yes. Give me a full season of Hedges catching over Schwarber playing left field any day. Being incompetent defensively diminishes your offensive value and vice versa.

Just say you don't understand what WAR is or how it's supposed to be used and we can move on

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by whitmm

You have been the only continually referencing it. Nobody is the conversation over the last day or couple hours was using it. But you decided to bring it up again like it was relevant in any way.

But hey, you keep stressing WPA, just another measurement in the WAR category. Nevermind that before the last 2 games, Schwarber was under 1, just as a reference of how easily it can drastically swing.

Kyle Schwarber is not a Reggie Jackson level player and Kyle Schwarber is not close to being a hall of famer.

But hey, keep thinking WAR tells you where you should hit someone in a lineup. Have a day

Another false statement. WPA is completely situationally based. It’s so far removed from the analytics of WAR I’m stunned you stated it. WPA in short is taking the odds of winning by how a player performs within that opportunity. That’s a extremely brief statement of what WPA is. WAR is based on all opportunities being equal, all situations are equal and compiling those stats. Trying to help you understand. A player can hit 3 home runs after being up by 10 and receive virtually 0 WPA. The same performance in the same situation in WAR will vastly increase.

As far as saying he is at this time a Hall of Fame selected player, I’ve never stated that. I’m stating he has the ability and opportunity to arrive at that location. Will he be able to continue the production of the past 2 seasons because he will have to do the production for at least 6 years. Not likely but possible.

Reggie Jackson as a regular season hitter are as his numbers state. His Post Season numbers are as they state though he had 2 great World Series. Jackson as a fielder is at best mediocre.

As far as having members utilizing WAR as a basis of being selected, that’s their opinion, I’m not a WAR proponent. As far as members saying Jackson didn’t need his Post Season performance to arrive, ok. IMO, I could counter Ortiz. Though Ortiz was tagged for a violation in IMO he belonged. Ortiz at roughly 29 to his retirement is what had him selected. How would a Ortiz at age 30 thread looked, most likely much like this one !

[whitmm]

Originally Posted by Stifle

Another false statement. WPA is completely situationally based. It’s so far removed from the analytics of WAR I’m stunned you stated it. WPA in short is taking the odds of winning by how a player performs within that opportunity. That’s a extremely brief statement of what WPA is. WAR is based on all opportunities being equal, all situations are equal and compiling those stats. Trying to help you understand. A player can hit 3 home runs after being up by 10 and receive virtually 0 WPA. The same performance in the same situation in WAR will vastly increase.

As far as saying he is at this time a Hall of Fame selected player, I’ve never stated that. I’m stating he has the ability and opportunity to arrive at that location. Will he be able to continue the production of the past 2 seasons because he will have to do the production for at least 6 years. Not likely but possible.

Reggie Jackson as a regular season hitter are as his numbers state. His Post Season numbers are as they state though he had 2 great World Series. Jackson as a fielder is at best mediocre.

As far as having members utilizing WAR as a basis of being selected, that’s their opinion, I’m not a WAR proponent. As far as members saying Jackson didn’t need his Post Season performance to arrive, ok. IMO, I could counter Ortiz. Though Ortiz was tagged for a violation in IMO he belonged. Ortiz at roughly 29 to his retirement is what had him selected. How would a Ortiz at age 30 thread looked, most likely much like this one !

WPA only applies to pitchers and hitters. If an outfielder robs a home run, the pitcher gets credit for it. It doesn't tell a proper story. You keep acting like WPA is some super important number. What about the fact that one quarter of Schwarber's career WPA has come in the last 2 games?

You don't understand what WAR is and continue to use it wrong. Fangraphs literally tells you to not use it on it's own. It's meant to be a reference point. It attempts to group players of equal value. So yes, a very good defensive player might be considered of equal value as a very good defensive player.

David Ortiz was a 10 time all star, a 7 time silver slugger. He had a career .286 batting average. He had over 1700 RBI and 1400 runs. He had an OPS of .931. Kyle Schwarber has a long ways to go to be David Ortiz