Robot Umps Are Not The Answer

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

That's why ballpark attendance is already up this year compared to 2022.

Temporary bump -- the trend line is clear.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

It's not a tradition. You are valuing nothing.

The only reason an umpire was ever used to call balls and strikes is because players couldn't be unbiased enough to call balls and strikes themselves. It was to prevent fights between teams and make the game more about what happens on the field with the players.

Make no mistake, if ABS was technologically viable when baseball started, it would have been used instead of umpires. The umpire isn't a tradition, it was just the best option available at the time to attempt to remove the biases of the human element you seem to want in the game. Nobody thought, "hmm, I would like some inherent biases and mistakes that humans make in refereeing this sport, so let's use humans." It was the opposite. They said, we need to eliminate this inconsistency and bias in the best way we can. Let's get a neutral third party.

Now that the technology exists to remove the human element nobody wanted in the first place, we have people mistakenly thinking it's a "tradition" of the game. Which couldn't be farther from the truth.

The first MLB umpire crew was created in 1879:
https://www.mlb.com/official-informa...pires/timeline

You're confusing tradition, which is historical patterns of behavior and beliefs, with the original rules. MLB has 130+ years of umpires calling balls and strikes.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

The first MLB umpire crew was created in 1879:
https://www.mlb.com/official-informa...pires/timeline

You're confusing tradition, which is historical patterns of behavior and beliefs, with the original rules. MLB has 130+ years of umpires calling balls and strikes.

I see you didn't actually read my post.

MLB has 130+ years of umpires calling balls and strikes because they didn't have an alternative. They would have absolutely went to ABS if the technology existed in 1879, and every single year thereafter if they could have. Some "tradition".

EDIT: And you still keep dodging the point that baseball began to use umpires to attempt to eliminate bias and inconsistency from the game, yet you are advocating for keeping them in order to KEEP biases and inconsistency in the game. Don't you see the irony in that?

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

I see you didn't actually read my post.

MLB has 130+ years of umpires calling balls and strikes because they didn't have an alternative. They would have absolutely went to ABS if the technology existed in 1879, and every single year thereafter if they could have. Some "tradition".

The tradition was established many, many generations ago. It may not have been a part of the original rules, but it has been a part of the game since a decade after its inception.

[scotthenrichs]

DH wasn't part of the original rules and pitchers batting was a tradition. Was brought in back in the 70's, people complained, people still complain, didn't stop them from doing it and life and baseball going on. Bring on the robo umps!

[theshowandme]

Hitting will still be very hard
Pitching will still be very hard

Advantage will always be skewed to the pitcher

Nothing will change that dynamic drastically

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by scotthenrichs

DH wasn't part of the original rules and pitchers batting was a tradition. Was brought in back in the 70's, people complained, people still complain, didn't stop them from doing it and life and baseball going on. Bring on the robo umps!

The universal DH is not a good analogy for robo umpiring. With universal DH, pitchers are replaced with other batters in the lineup. With robo umpiring, strike-ball calling by umpires is replaced with technology. You have humans replacing other humans in one example, and technology replacing humans in the other.

The technology creeping into the sport is fundamentally changing it. It's changing the experiences for viewers as well as players. If I wanted more technology in my entertainment, I could play video games. Honestly, the changes being made in MLB are starting to make me re-evaluate my entertainment choices.

[SearchPatrol]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

The technology creeping into the sport is fundamentally changing it. It's changing the experiences for viewers as well as players. If I wanted more technology in my entertainment, I could play video games. Honestly, the changes being made in MLB are starting to make me re-evaluate my entertainment choices.

A guy on the Internet complaining about technology.

Must be exhausting to be such a Champion.

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

Temporary bump -- the trend line is clear.

Doesn't look as clear as you claim, but since you're so smart on predicting things, please give me the numbers to the next big lottery.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

The universal DH is not a good analogy for robo umpiring. With universal DH, pitchers are replaced with other batters in the lineup. With robo umpiring, strike-ball calling by umpires is replaced with technology. You have humans replacing other humans in one example, and technology replacing humans in the other.



The technology creeping into the sport is fundamentally changing it. It's changing the experiences for viewers as well as players. If I wanted more technology in my entertainment, I could play video games. Honestly, the changes being made in MLB are starting to make me re-evaluate my entertainment choices.

Yeah, one is players replacing other players. The other is swapping out NON-PLAYERS. It's insane to me that you think umpires are part of the game. They are tangential to the game, but they aren't players, nor are they why any sane person watches the sport.

[SupermanBrandon]

Fabs might be the worst predictor on this board. If he goes in hard...you should take that as a clear sign to go in the opposite direction.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

Doesn't look as clear as you claim, but since you're so smart on predicting things, please give me the numbers to the next big lottery.

Am I missing something here? I said the attendance increase was a one-year bump -- the trend line over the long haul has been clear.

Attendance per game:
2008: 32,382
2009: 30,218
2017: 29,908
2018: 28,659
2019: 28,203
2023: 29,028

The trend continues.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

The universal DH is not a good analogy for robo umpiring. With universal DH, pitchers are replaced with other batters in the lineup. With robo umpiring, strike-ball calling by umpires is replaced with technology. You have humans replacing other humans in one example, and technology replacing humans in the other.

The technology creeping into the sport is fundamentally changing it. It's changing the experiences for viewers as well as players. If I wanted more technology in my entertainment, I could play video games. Honestly, the changes being made in MLB are starting to make me re-evaluate my entertainment choices.

the same could be said about the all the Alphabet Soup stats that people keep using for the game

[JRX]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

Doesn't look as clear as you claim, but since you're so smart on predicting things, please give me the numbers to the next big lottery.

They're on pace to get close to 2018 numbers. So recovered from covid but still not really showing growth.

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[Bcr]

Some of you are legit crazy and thankfully in the extreme minority.

[theshowandme]

The only thing that has ever taken me away from watching the game was being on the other side of the world, often times without internet access

If robot umps make you want to move away from baseball, then I question how serious of a fan you are to begin with.

[OhioLawyerF5]

The sport, in its purest form is just 2 teams playing against each other. Everything else, including umps, is just window dressing. Kids have played the game for many decades in sandlots around the world with no umps. They aren't part of, or integral to the game. I am a fan of baseball. That's players playing a game. All I care about is that nothing that is not a player affects the game. Fans of the game itself agree. Those who think the game needs inconsistent rules enforcement might claim they are traditionalists, when they are really just not fans of the pure sport of the game.

[SupermanBrandon]

Tonight there was a called strike & pass ball…that was actually a very clear foul ball in the first inning…that gave the Cubs an early lead in the Braves game. A very clear miss that wasn’t reviewable. But some would rather we keep status quo so they themselves can feel better watching tv vs getting it right for the players & teams on the field.


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[fabiani12333]

On the topic of MLB ticket sales, here are some interesting numbers:

Between 1975 and 1994 (the year of the strike), MLB average paid attendance steadily increased, rising 102% overall. According to the US Census Bureau, the resident population grew 22% between those two decades.

Between 1995 and 2023, MLB average paid attendance has declined 7.2%. The US resident population has increased 33% between the decades.

As a share of stadium capacity, paid attendance was 60.1% in 1994 and is 69% in 2023. The average stadium dropped from 51,981 in 1994 to 42,056 in 2023.

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by fabiani12333

On the topic of MLB ticket sales, here are some interesting numbers:

Between 1975 and 1994 (the year of the strike), MLB average paid attendance steadily increased, rising 102% overall. According to the US Census Bureau, the resident population grew 22% between those two decades.

Between 1995 and 2023, MLB average paid attendance has declined 7.2%. The US resident population has increased 33% between the decades.

As a share of stadium capacity, paid attendance was 60.1% in 1994 and is 69% in 2023. The average stadium dropped from 51,981 in 1994 to 42,056 in 2023.

I have worked with those types of datasets every day for the last 5 years.

The average American household income is not going as far today as it was between 1975-1994. That is no secret. American wages have not kept up with housing, transportation, energy, and education costs. There are too many things pulling on Americans wallet and that’s before non-essentials are involved (e.g, entertainment)

People are going to less games because it’s $75-100 a head to get into the game, park, enjoy concessions, etc. and that’s before Johnny and Samantha want something from the team store. It’s even more egregious in the big markets (NY, LA, etc.).

[JRX]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

I have worked with those types of datasets every day for the last 5 years.

The average American household income is not going as far today as it was between 1975-1994. That is no secret. American wages have not kept up with housing, transportation, energy, and education costs. There are too many things pulling on Americans wallet and that’s before non-essentials are involved (e.g, entertainment)

People are going to less games because it’s $75-100 a head to get into the game, park, enjoy concessions, etc. and that’s before Johnny and Samantha want something from the team store. It’s even more egregious in the big markets (NY, LA, etc.).

18-49 demo is also not watching on TV. The majority of the audience is 50+

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[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by JRX

18-49 demo is also not watching on TV. The majority of the audience is 50+

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Good point. I’m 30 and haven’t had cable since 2013.

Mlb.tv is the way

[awz50]

Wait do we want robo umps or no?

[LCM1223]

Angel Hernandez is a piece of garbage look-at-me baby

[awz50]

Originally Posted by LCM1223

Angel Hernandez is a piece of garbage look-at-me baby

Well yeah...