First Buzz: 2023 Topps Heritage baseball cards

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Player images switched.....

I thought the names were switched…?

Originally Posted by jhssketchcards

HHH would be cool if had these

I agree that it would be cool, but they missed their chance to do it 2 years ago with the ‘72 design

[mfw13]

The only thing I will add to the conversation at this point is disappointment at the SP situation. Having 100 SP's with only 8 per box (meaning that even a case leaves you four short) is just idiotic, especially given that Heritage is mostly a set-builders product.

Cut the SP's back to 50 and/or increase the pack ratio from 1:3 to 1:2 (so you get 12 per box). This is easily doable since every hobby box now contains 8 packs with no inserts/SP's.

[RedLabelRecords]

Originally Posted by mfw13

The only thing I will add to the conversation at this point is disappointment at the SP situation. Having 100 SP's with only 8 per box (meaning that even a case leaves you four short) is just idiotic, especially given that Heritage is mostly a set-builders product.

Cut the SP's back to 50 and/or increase the pack ratio from 1:3 to 1:2 (so you get 12 per box). This is easily doable since every hobby box now contains 8 packs with no inserts/SP's.

What’s more upsetting to me is how the sp cards consist of lesser-grade talent.

[banosd]

Originally Posted by RedLabelRecords

What’s more upsetting to me is how the sp cards consist of lesser-grade talent.

Yup, purple refractors a plenty of Henry Ramos and Spenser Watkins. I often wonder if you can even call those 'hits'

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by RedLabelRecords

What’s more upsetting to me is how the sp cards consist of lesser-grade talent.

That's actually a positive, since it means that all the stars are in the base checklist. It used to be that most of the stars were SP's, which drove up the cost of completing the set significantly. Nowadays SP's are around $1 each, whereas they used to be about $2-3 each.

For me, it's the fact that the chrome/mini's/parallel checklists are still 100 names each that sucks, since that means that even if you do beat the odds and pull one, chances are you're going to pull a virtually worthless no-name player.

I actually beat the odds last year and pulled two autos, two blacks, three chromes, a mini, and a nickname variation last year from three boxes and about 40 fat packs. The best name I pulled was Josh Donaldson (the nickname variation).

[ryanc576]

Pricing not as bad as I was expecting. And pleasantly surprised that case orders are available a month+ out, given what we saw from Bowman. This is my one must-buy, fill-the-pool-table-with-stacks-of-cards indulgence these days, so I'm pretty happy at the moment.

[DarcyWinston]

I’m going to wait until I see some cases opened. It’s gotten so watered down you don’t get much if anything if your 3-4 autos aren’t any good. Maybe one or two low numbered chromes. Can be a boring rip if goodies don’t drop very often

[ThoseBackPages]

yea, its best to open Heritage because you like cards

its not a hit driven release

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by DarcyWinston

I’m going to wait until I see some cases opened. It’s gotten so watered down you don’t get much if anything if your 3-4 autos aren’t any good.

Bingo.

Topps has been making it more and more of a hit-focused product even though the customer base for it is mostly set-builders.

It's inexcusable that you don't get a "goodie" in every box....you should get either a SP, Then & Now, Flashback, or New Age Performer in EVERY pack....maybe something like 12 SP's, 4 T&N's, 4 Flashbacks, and 4 NAP's in every box. And then you should get 1-2 other bigger hits per box...i.e. an auto, mini, scarce variation, or black chrome.

Really stupid that you can't even build the SP set OR any of the regular insert sets from anything short of a full case....

[dodgerfanjohn]

Because of dupes, you only get about half a master set of inserts in a case.

Anyway, $1100 for a case on presale is in fact a good sign. Waiting a bit might yield a price in the low $900’s.

And for those expecting hits, that’s not where your money comes from on this product. Sets net more than hits ever will unless you hit the rare monster.

[Stech36]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Bingo.

Topps has been making it more and more of a hit-focused product even though the customer base for it is mostly set-builders.

It's inexcusable that you don't get a "goodie" in every box....you should get either a SP, Then & Now, Flashback, or New Age Performer in EVERY pack....maybe something like 12 SP's, 4 T&N's, 4 Flashbacks, and 4 NAP's in every box. And then you should get 1-2 other bigger hits per box...i.e. an auto, mini, scarce variation, or black chrome.

Really stupid that you can't even build the SP set OR any of the regular insert sets from anything short of a full case....

I don’t see how this is hit focused. It’s literally the exact same as it’s always been, just fewer variations and #’d per box.

[majestik101]

If you're buying Heritage and expecting to pull sick "hits" and/or "goodies"... you're doing it wrong.

[DarcyWinston]

Originally Posted by Stech36

I don’t see how this is hit focused. It’s literally the exact same as it’s always been, just fewer variations and #’d per box.

They tried to make it more palatable to breakers hence IDing “hits” on the back like color swaps, errors, throwback etc… it didn’t work. Topps abandoned their base for this product and turned to the breakers on this a few years ago. And pumped up the printing presses. And making insert sets harder to build for no reason. Those of us who have opened this for a long time knows cases in the past would have goodies/unicorns like dual relics, red autos, etc.. not anymore. And a master could be built from one case. Now? The dullest breaks of recent note have been heritage case breaks. If Fanatics were smart they would make this a set building product again. But I have no faith they will.

[coupie21]

I am a big fan of Heritage and purchase a case or 2 every year. But last years release was ridiculous at the early price point. You get 4 or 5 actions/variations (out of 25 subjects) per case. It used to be 1 per box. Trying to complete the set is expensive. They came up with the silver chrome and green chrome parallels to add content, which are a joke. SPs are mostly of garbage players. I can go on and on about how this product has mostly been ruined. The early price point on blowout of $95 per box is laughable. This should be no more than $80 (if that). Less content per case/box, yet prices continue to go up!

[jduds]

Originally Posted by DarcyWinston

They tried to make it more palatable to breakers hence IDing “hits” on the back like color swaps, errors, throwback etc… it didn’t work. Topps abandoned their base for this product and turned to the breakers on this a few years ago. And pumped up the printing presses. And making insert sets harder to build for no reason. Those of us who have opened this for a long time knows cases in the past would have goodies/unicorns like dual relics, red autos, etc.. not anymore. And a master could be built from one case. Now? The dullest breaks of recent note have been heritage case breaks. If Fanatics were smart they would make this a set building product again. But I have no faith they will.

If they were making this for the breakers, wouldn't they up the hits instead of watering it down? Seems like they screwed this up for set builders and breakers alike. Heritage High Number is available pretty readily at $60-$65 (and cheaper). I'll jump in on this year's around that price and think it will get there if they keep things like last year in terms of print run. Otherwise, this is another of my no-brainer buy-it-every-year purchases to add to my growing list of singles-only products as the gap between box price and the average value of the contents widens too much for my tastes.

[Stech36]

Originally Posted by jduds

If they were making this for the breakers, wouldn't they up the hits instead of watering it down? Seems like they screwed this up for set builders and breakers alike. Heritage High Number is available pretty readily at $60-$65 (and cheaper). I'll jump in on this year's around that price and think it will get there if they keep things like last year in terms of print run. Otherwise, this is another of my no-brainer buy-it-every-year purchases to add to my growing list of singles-only products as the gap between box price and the average value of the contents widens too much for my tastes.

Exactly. I don’t think they made this for breakers or made it hit driven. They just increased print runs, without really increasing the print runs on parallels/variations so they are harder to hit. What used to be so much fun to break, searching for codes and getting multiple hits per box, has become a boring break.

Heritage also hasn’t caught on with new collectors so the hits aren’t really worth more, despite being harder to hit.

[ObanMontecristo]

I echo what’s already been said- in years past the value was definitely there when breaking a case, but for the last few years (except for ‘21 HHN), the value wasn’t there and it was kind of a boring break.

At least ‘21 HHN had tons of nice rookies and gave you like 8-10 of each of them. What do you get in the Low # case break, like 4-5 of each base card, and you can’t even complete a ‘master’ set with all the SPs and inserts?

I’m not a big fan of the ‘74 design either, but maybe I’ll be back next year for the ‘75’s…

[bub838]

Originally Posted by DarcyWinston

They tried to make it more palatable to breakers hence IDing “hits” on the back like color swaps, errors, throwback etc… it didn’t work. Topps abandoned their base for this product and turned to the breakers on this a few years ago. And pumped up the printing presses. And making insert sets harder to build for no reason. Those of us who have opened this for a long time knows cases in the past would have goodies/unicorns like dual relics, red autos, etc.. not anymore. And a master could be built from one case. Now? The dullest breaks of recent note have been heritage case breaks. If Fanatics were smart they would make this a set building product again. But I have no faith they will.

Breakers barely touch Heritage. It’s the antithesis of a breakers product.

[AwesomeBrian]

Originally Posted by DarcyWinston

They tried to make it more palatable to breakers hence IDing “hits” on the back like color swaps, errors, throwback etc… it didn’t work. Topps abandoned their base for this product and turned to the breakers on this a few years ago. And pumped up the printing presses. And making insert sets harder to build for no reason. Those of us who have opened this for a long time knows cases in the past would have goodies/unicorns like dual relics, red autos, etc.. not anymore. And a master could be built from one case. Now? The dullest breaks of recent note have been heritage case breaks. If Fanatics were smart they would make this a set building product again. But I have no faith they will.

When was the last year a 1-500 Master could be built from 1 case?

[dodgerfanjohn]

Originally Posted by AwesomeBrian

When was the last year a 1-500 Master could be built from 1 case?

2016 was the last year there were only 75 sp’s instead of 100.

I’m theory, you should still come close as you get by odds 96 sp’s per case. But dupes have been very bad since at least 2019 and you typically only get 65-85 of the sp set.

The inserts are much worse and by odds you should also get close, but the last three years my rate has been nearly 100% dupes.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by Stech36

Exactly. I don’t think they made this for breakers or made it hit driven.

Yes and no.

IMHO they didn't make it for breakers, but by increasing box prices, making it harder to complete sets, and making the auto checklist much more rookie-focused, they made the value proposition much worse for set-builders/collectors.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by Stech36

I don’t see how this is hit focused. It’s literally the exact same as it’s always been, just fewer variations and #’d per box.

It's become more "hit-focused" because the higher price point has negatively changed the value proposition. When the price was $50-60 a box, and every pack contained an insert/SP/chrome, the value proposition was much better than it is now at $80-90 a box with eight "base card only" packs. Now, if you don't get a hit, and sometimes even if you do, your box doesn't contain much value, because fewer people are trying to complete the inserts sets or build a chrome set (I actually built the chrome sets in 2003/04/05...would never try to do so today)

For example, there was a long period where you would get 3-4 chromes per box, as well as 2-3 of each of the inserts (i.e. Flashbacks, News Flashbacks, Then & Now, New Age Performers).

Some of the new additions to the set are cool (minis, action variations, throwbacks), but they're so hard to hit, and the checklists are so huge that you're likely to get a scrub even if you do hit one, that they don't actually add much value to a box.

Would love to see the chrome/mini checklist reduced to 50 players, so that when you do hit one, you actually get a decent player.

[DarcyWinston]

Originally Posted by bub838

Breakers barely touch Heritage. It’s the antithesis of a breakers product.

Yes I agree, but Topps still tried to tweak it to make it more breaker friendly.. It didn’t work but that was the goal. And they raised the price while simultaneously watering down the product. My point is Topps needs to lower the price and better the odds for inserts at least. Indifference is setting in which is not a good sign.

[ObanMontecristo]

Originally Posted by DarcyWinston

Yes I agree, but Topps still tried to tweak it to make it more breaker friendly.. It didn’t work but that was the goal. And they raised the price while simultaneously watering down the product. My point is Topps needs to lower the price and better the odds for inserts at least. Indifference is setting in which is not a good sign.

Not sure ‘inserts’ are where the value is…I can live without getting more News Flashbacks. What I’d really like are more chromes and variations of solid players per box/case (autos too, but those are probably in similar quantities compared to 5-10 years ago)

[Stech36]

Originally Posted by ObanMontecristo

Not sure ‘inserts’ are where the value is…I can live without getting more News Flashbacks. What I’d really like are more chromes and variations of solid players per box/case (autos too, but those are probably in similar quantities compared to 5-10 years ago)

Master set is where the value is.