Who is 2nd behind Brady in the GOAT debate?

[BostonNut]

Originally Posted by oplum29

as time goes on, i think people will finally argue that it's extremely difficult to determine who the "goat" is when the eras are so different.

people say Brady is the GOAT, but idk if Brady is Brady in the 80's and 90's, taking the same shots that ended the careers of Montana, Favre, Aikman, and Steve Young for example. go and look at some of the vicious shots Montana took in his career, like the one against the Giants by Jim Burt. or one the one agains the Giants by Leonard Marshall. or look at the pounding he took from Philly in 89' at the Vet, when he was sacked 8 times and brought the 49ers back to win.

i'd for sure put LT, Jim Brown, and Rice on that list. i don't think you'll find anybody that will argue out these three players.

but Jerry Rice doing what he did against a defense that could push, pull, and tug all the way down the field, was crazy. Rice even played against the best cover corner in NFL history (Deion) twice a season.

and for the people that argue that Rice made Montana great, he only played with Montana for six years, and in one of them Montana missed a good chunk with a back injury. he also lost 4 games to a strike in 1987, when he was setting the NFL record for TD receptions (22 in 12 games) that Moss later broke in 16 games.

Take a look at the shot Brady took from Nate Clements. Von Miller absolutely brutalized him in one of those AFC Championship Games. Let’s not pretend like Brady did not get not get touched in his 20 years.

[Jbead61]

To me Montana is no more special than Bradshaw was during his time. SB wins regardless of the new QB rules are still very hard to win. You get one chance on one day unlike a series like Baseball and Basketball etc. A wide receiver position is way more dangerous position to play than a QB position as well. Getting hit over the middle by a safety at full speed just straight sucks.

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by majestik101

Kyle Trask

This is the beauty of Blowout.

Normies miss 95% of the jokes.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by oplum29

Jerry Rice set the all-time single season NFL record for yards receiving in 1995, and he did it with:

Young, Grbac, and Cary Conklin playing QB

he's the goat

Yup! Just looking at the 49er era, specifically during the Joe Montana and Steve Young years when Rice was playing without them. Over five seasons, that group of quarterbacks included Elvis Grbac (9 games), Jeff Kemp (6), Steve Bono (6), Mike Moroski (2), and Matt Cavanugh (1). Over 24 games, Rice caught 134 passes for 2,177 yards and 23 TDs. That creates an average season of 89 catches, 1451 receiving yards, and 16 touchdowns.

As soon as he got to the Raiders, he made Gannon a super star and league MVP.

[Seahawks fan]

Rice 1st and LT 2nd.

[49erRCCollector]

Originally Posted by tjforce

IMO...

Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, and Jim Brown are all right answers.

I can live with any of these. I wouldn't fight anyone on LT, either.

[Jbead61]

Originally Posted by Seahawks fan

Rice 1st and LT 2nd.

It’s a shame defensive players rarely get well known to super star status ever. Defensive players are easily forgotten. You have to be nothing short of essentially amazing which only two people come to mind on defense that will forever be remembered and that’s Deion Sanders and Lawrence Taylor. QB’s get way too much publicity over other positions so they always get thrown high in the ranks of top players but Brady, Rice, LT and Brown have to be the best to ever play. I’m sure guys like Otto, Unitas and Bart Starr were amazing but they didn’t carry the same weight during their era to keep their legendary status going like Babe Ruth did that makes people still consider him the best of all time even in today’s discussions.

[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by Seahawks fan

Rice 1st and LT 2nd.

I go LT 1st and Rice 2nd. I may be slightly biased because I was a huge LT fan growing up. I miss those days when the Giants players would come and play the teachers in a basketball game every year at my school. Watching LT slam dunk and seeing the absolutely massive size of Joe Morris was always fun.

[ReggieBush22]

Just in terms of PEAK, was anyone bettet than LT? He was a one man wrecking crew and the game has never seen anyone like him still. He was different. There's been thousands of pass rushers in NFL history, no one exploded off the line like him.

[oplum29]

Originally Posted by BostonNut

Take a look at the shot Brady took from Nate Clements. Von Miller absolutely brutalized him in one of those AFC Championship Games. Let’s not pretend like Brady did not get not get touched in his 20 years.

you can't argue this knowing the "hit" Brady took against Atlanta i believe this season that was called for roughing the passer.

i love Brady, but he got off light compared to what Montana went through.

[Schocktown]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

What would Montana and Young do if they were throwing to average receivers?

Well Montana won 2 Super Bowls while throwing to average receivers so I guess we already know.

[epatmythes]

Originally Posted by ReggieBush22

Just in terms of PEAK, was anyone bettet than LT? He was a one man wrecking crew and the game has never seen anyone like him still. He was different. There's been thousands of pass rushers in NFL history, no one exploded off the line like him.

The ghost of Reggie White calling...

Wants to let you know he could have thrown lineman in the stands, not just 5-10 yards back if he had as much cocaine flowing through his system as LT did

[epatmythes]

Tom Brady...

23 seasons in the NFL...

In 20 of those seasons, a QB was named NFL MVP...

Only 3 of those times, that name was Tom Brady...

17 of those 23 seasons, he wasn't even the best at his position...

But he collected records due to longevity and was the QB of the most great teams to win the last game of the year...

So he's the GOAT? Nah... hard pass.

[oplum29]

Originally Posted by Grid

Yup! Just looking at the 49er era, specifically during the Joe Montana and Steve Young years when Rice was playing without them. Over five seasons, that group of quarterbacks included Elvis Grbac (9 games), Jeff Kemp (6), Steve Bono (6), Mike Moroski (2), and Matt Cavanugh (1). Over 24 games, Rice caught 134 passes for 2,177 yards and 23 TDs. That creates an average season of 89 catches, 1451 receiving yards, and 16 touchdowns.

As soon as he got to the Raiders, he made Gannon a super star and league MVP.

it's not a coincidence that Gannon won league MVP and led the Raiders to the SB when Rice joined the Raiders.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by SleeperCards

GOAT arguments amuse me. Will probably be some time before someone replaces Brady, that longevity and success will be hard to match.

Did it all on his own, huh?

Originally Posted by Schocktown

Well Montana won 2 Super Bowls while throwing to average receivers so I guess we already know.

Good point. Counterpoint, Rice did Ok in 1986 when Montana missed half the year.

[oplum29]

Originally Posted by Schocktown

Well Montana won 2 Super Bowls while throwing to average receivers so I guess we already know.

Montana won two with Freddie Solomon and Dwight Clark. he won two more with Rice and Montana.

but some people believe Montana won all four with Rice. it's like Brady, he won i think two with Gronk. another one Gronk didn't play in, and they lost two more together.

[Jbead61]

Originally Posted by epatmythes

Tom Brady...

23 seasons in the NFL...

In 20 of those seasons, a QB was named NFL MVP...

Only 3 of those times, that name was Tom Brady...

17 of those 23 seasons, he wasn't even the best at his position...

But he collected records due to longevity and was the QB of the most great teams to win the last game of the year...

So he's the GOAT? Nah... hard pass.

Name those 20 MVP’s, most were garbage and forgotten players already. SB’s decide goat status in the NFL and all time record holders.

[pcptrade]

If Peyton Manning had been drafted by the Patriots, and Tom Brady by the Indianapolis Colts, how many Super Bowl rings would each of them have? Would Brady be in the GOAT discussion in that hypothetical scenario? Would the thread title be "Who is 2nd behind Peyton Manning in the GOAT debate?"

Was the GOAT person easily replaceable by someone else with similar or better outcome, i.e; Would someone else have done a similar or better job than that the GOAT in identical situation and circumstances? Did that person become the GOAT because of his extraordinary skill and talent that others did not possess or he got lucky by being at the right place at the right time? If someone was easily replaceable and the outcome would have been the same or better, then why should we crown that person the GOAT? Maybe he/she should be called LUCKY GOAT. So put your breaks on and stop placing some of these athletes on untouchable pedestals and stop calling them undisputed GOAT! GOAT opinions are like having a p***s: it's ok to have one and it's ok to be proud of it, but please don't whip it out in public or try to shove it down others throats.

DISCLOSURE: Before someone says I am a Manning fanboi, I do not own any Manning cards. I own a Brady Champ Ticket.

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by epatmythes

Tom Brady...

23 seasons in the NFL...

In 20 of those seasons, a QB was named NFL MVP...

Only 3 of those times, that name was Tom Brady...

17 of those 23 seasons, he wasn't even the best at his position...

But he collected records due to longevity and was the QB of the most great teams to win the last game of the year...

So he's the GOAT? Nah... hard pass.

Preach, brother! Only in the last 3 years have the vast majority of NFL fans be led to believe Brady was better than Manning. Brady isn't even in my top 5 GOAT's. I just don't believe he was ever that dominant. He played on some great teams, though.

[Grid]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Preach, brother! Only in the last 3 years have the vast majority of NFL fans be led to believe Brady was better than Manning. Brady isn't even in my top 5 GOAT's. I just don't believe he was ever that dominant. He played on some great teams, though.

The past 3 years? No one was calling him the GOAT, when he "only" had 6 Super Bowl wins, 5 SB MVPs, 3 League MVPs, 6 All Pro nods (crazy for a QB), 14 Pro Bowl selections, or when he was winning passing crowns a half dozen times before that?

Yes, he had some goods teams. But those teams were good, because he was on them.

[graffiX]

Rice, Brown, LT, Brady (in that order)

[pcptrade]

Originally Posted by MIRRABB

Jerry Rice is the GOAT.

Originally Posted by oplum29

i second this.

it's a shame he doesn't get the full recognition he deserves. most of these receivers wouldn't be putting up the numbers Rice put up in his career at the time he played, against those defenders and the rules from back then.

Originally Posted by jplarson

Jerry Rice GOAT. He took the hits Brady benefitted from getting legislated out.

Originally Posted by tjforce

IMO...

Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, and Jim Brown are all right answers.

Originally Posted by Seahawks fan

Rice 1st and LT 2nd.

Originally Posted by graffiX

Rice, Brown, LT, Brady (in that order)

Looks like many have Jerry Rice and few others ahead of Brady. Maybe someone like Frenzy should create a new thread titled "Who is the GOAT" in Football with Brady name included in the poll as opposed to a thread like this which assumes Brady is the unanimous GOAT. Curious to see the percentage difference between Brady and Rice in the poll.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by Grid

The past 3 years? No one was calling him the GOAT, when he "only" had 6 Super Bowl wins, 5 SB MVPs, 3 League MVPs, 6 All Pro nods (crazy for a QB), 14 Pro Bowl selections, or when he was winning passing crowns a half dozen times before that?

Yes, he had some goods teams. But those teams were good, because he was on them.

Carried by his defense and kicker early in his career.

Had historically great offenses and couldnt beat the slow Manning and the Giants.

Football is a team sport. Nothing at all like basketball where guys actually play both ways. I never saw Brady go out and tackle Mahomes or pick off passes.

“My Husband Can’t F—- Throw and Catch at the Same Time” - the ex

[corndog]

In his prime, Leon Sandcastle was the best in the game.

[jplarson]

Originally Posted by mc1

“My Husband Can’t F—-, Throw, and Catch at the Same Time” - the ex

This is how I read it.