MLB Heading To A Lockout

[NeedChapmans]

I wonder what happens if no deal is struck today. Does it mean they just pick up tomorrow or something else?

Cap and Floor people; and this never happens again.

[mwash1983]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

I wonder what happens if no deal is struck today. Does it mean they just pick up tomorrow or something else?

Cap and Floor people; and this never happens again.

Manfraud announces opening day cancelled and they don’t talk for about a month.

[MattRoc]

Originally Posted by anusinha

It seems like having more playoff teams would be an incentive to improve your team. Lets say there were only 4 playoff teams, it would basically be like the EPL where the same 4 teams are spending money at the top and the rest are just fine with being fodder..

It's really the opposite. If half the league makes the playoffs, and the playoffs are essentially a crapshoot, why would an owner spend an extra 15 mil to improve on the margins? They get rewarded for being average, with little to no incentive for spending more money.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by anusinha

It seems like having more playoff teams would be an incentive to improve your team. Lets say there were only 4 playoff teams, it would basically be like the EPL where the same 4 teams are spending money at the top and the rest are just fine with being fodder..

Tampa Bay + Oakland has been the most detrimental thing to the MLBPA since the New York Yankees. Proving that $$ does not always equal success in this game, gives a ton of cover to owners who don't want to spend.

[babybull]

Originally Posted by kon jelly

That's like Kroger asking me to donate a dollar to feed hungry kids. You're the giant corporate grocery store, YOU feed hungry kids.

Why ask the players to make a sacrifice for others instead of having the people making money off of the minor league players actually pay them a living wage?

Stop comparing regular people who shop at Kroger's to MLB players who wouldn't know how to get to Kroger's.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by anusinha

It seems like having more playoff teams would be an incentive to improve your team.

It would be an incentive for some teams (those just below the cutoff point) and a disincentive for others (those just above the cutoff point).

The biggest problem baseball has is that the playoffs are pretty much a crapshoot due to the short series length and poor format, which means that there is little correlation between talent level and outcomes.

That's how you ended up with an 88-win team that had the 12th best regular season record winning the World Series.....

[kooky4cards]

Originally Posted by kon jelly

That's like Kroger asking me to donate a dollar to feed hungry kids. You're the giant corporate grocery store, YOU feed hungry kids.

Why ask the players to make a sacrifice for others instead of having the people making money off of the minor league players actually pay them a living wage?

There are wealthy people in the world who reach a certain net worth and realize that they and their families have all they could ever want or need. I know, crazy right? They are perfectly content with owning tens of millions of dollars worth of mansions and vacation homes ...yachts ....helicopters ....private jets. They decide that they have more than enough rainy day money stashed away in their various investments, and plenty of luxury "stuff" to enjoy. So, they feel nice donating a few hundred thousand to a million dollars of their wealth every year to causes that are important to them. What a concept, huh?

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by Silent George

I haven't seen you make one statement that goes against the premise that the owners can do no wrong.

I stated multiple times why I am pro owner for these talks. To sum it up, baseball was awesome. Owners were banking, players were banking, fanbase was growing, sport is exciting with young players, on the brink of expansion, etc. Everything was going right. The couple of small things that needed to be tweaked for the players were not the center of these negotiations. They brought a laundry list of demands, and half of that laundry was nonstarters to begin with.

I am pro owner here for a reason. Most of the pro player fans here are simply pro player because they hate the rich owners. The owners haven't made a laundry list of demands. Plain and simple, this is the players fault. That is why I am not siding with them. The usual response to that is "the players didn't strike, the owners locked them out, its their fault". Bla Bla Bla. I would rather be in this current situation than having these talks in August when they are preparing to strike. And I'm not interested in the counter argument that they won't strike. Yes they will. The players are causing this. No matter how you wish to argue, no one has been able to argue actual facts. The players are making demands that will never be met. The owners are not.

If they go past today without a deal the owners should do what the players are doing. Make a list of stupid demands then tell the media that its the players fault for not accepting these stupid demands.

[Remmons22]

Originally Posted by babybull

Stop comparing regular people who shop at Kroger's to MLB players who wouldn't know how to get to Kroger's.

Stop talking about Kroger's in general. Also, what is Kroger's?

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by kooky4cards

There are wealthy people in the world who reach a certain net worth and realize that they and their families have all they could ever want or need. I know, crazy right? They are perfectly content with owning tens of millions of dollars worth of mansions and vacation homes ...yachts ....helicopters ....private jets. They decide that they have more than enough rainy day money stashed away in their various investments, and plenty of luxury "stuff" to enjoy. So, they feel nice donating a few hundred thousand to a million dollars of their wealth every year to causes that are important to them. What a concept, huh?

Wealth is in the eye of the beholder. I have no idea how much money you make, but I bet 2/3 of the worlds population would say you are wealthy.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by premium1981

I stated multiple times why I am pro owner for these talks. To sum it up, baseball was awesome. Owners were banking, players were banking, fanbase was growing, sport is exciting with young players, on the brink of expansion, etc. Everything was going right. The couple of small things that needed to be tweaked for the players were not the center of these negotiations. They brought a laundry list of demands, and half of that laundry was nonstarters to begin with.

I am pro owner here for a reason. Most of the pro player fans here are simply pro player because they hate the rich owners. The owners haven't made a laundry list of demands. Plain and simple, this is the players fault. That is why I am not siding with them. The usual response to that is "the players didn't strike, the owners locked them out, its their fault". Bla Bla Bla. I would rather be in this current situation than having these talks in August when they are preparing to strike. And I'm not interested in the counter argument that they won't strike. Yes they will. The players are causing this. No matter how you wish to argue, no one has been able to argue actual facts. The players are making demands that will never be met. The owners are not.

If they go past today without a deal the owners should do what the players are doing. Make a list of stupid demands then tell the media that its the players fault for not accepting these stupid demands.

That's because the owners don't make their demands overt. They didn't demand a "salary cap" they just want harsh penalties for going above the luxury tax etc.

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by JRX

That's because the owners don't make their demands overt. They didn't demand a "salary cap" they just want harsh penalties for going above the luxury tax etc.

Go ahead and expound upon the "etc". I would like a list of these overt demands you are referencing so I can compare to the demands of the players.

[JRX]

Originally Posted by premium1981

Go ahead and expound upon the "etc". I would like a list of these overt demands you are referencing so I can compare to the demands of the players.

I'm saying they don't make them overt. What's the point of limiting salary arbitration, the luxury tax, super 2 status etc. Everything is designed to limit salary growth. They don't come out and say "We demand a salary cap and no floor" but that's exactly what they end up doing.

[yanksfan1]

Originally Posted by anusinha

It seems like having more playoff teams would be an incentive to improve your team. Lets say there were only 4 playoff teams, it would basically be like the EPL where the same 4 teams are spending money at the top and the rest are just fine with being fodder..

If you believe the playoffs are a crapshoot, like many do, then simply making the playoffs is good enough, doesn't matter if you are the best team or last team in. The easier it is the make the playoffs, the less incentive there is to spend to get your team into the top tier since you merely need to be close to average to make the playoffs in a 14 team format.

[kon jelly]

Originally Posted by babybull

Stop comparing regular people who shop at Kroger's to MLB players who wouldn't know how to get to Kroger's.

Lol you really need to meet former MLB players to see how they live. Sure the 1% of them get uber-wealthy, but the majority do not.

Originally Posted by kooky4cards

There are wealthy people in the world who reach a certain net worth and realize that they and their families have all they could ever want or need. I know, crazy right? They are perfectly content with owning tens of millions of dollars worth of mansions and vacation homes ...yachts ....helicopters ....private jets. They decide that they have more than enough rainy day money stashed away in their various investments, and plenty of luxury "stuff" to enjoy. So, they feel nice donating a few hundred thousand to a million dollars of their wealth every year to causes that are important to them. What a concept, huh?

That's cool, but why the players and not the owners? You're saying the players are so rich they should give up money for the minor league players, but doesn't that apply even more so to the owners?

[JWBlue]

Originally Posted by Silent George

The union doesn’t seem to understand what they are doing in negotiations at all, they are mad about the last contracts and yet kept the same leadership.

I don't get that either.

[holygrail22]

Bryce Harper posted this on his Instagram story today

[SupermanBrandon]

Baseball just can't get out of their own way, EVER! There's not a single leader in all of baseball (owners or players). They could've captured the ENTIRE sports market for months during Covid...but No Thanks! They've not had truly marketable players (like now), for a decade...but No Thanks. Lots of bending over and picking up dimes while stepping over dollars. There's no urgency, ever. There's nobody looking to the future of the game.

[SupermanBrandon]

Originally Posted by holygrail22

Bryce Harper posted this on his Instagram story today

Im all for it. Players should go play in other leagues, in other countries. See how the pay, branding/sponsorship, conditions, etc are. They will come crawling back!

[kooky4cards]

Originally Posted by kon jelly

Lol you really need to meet former MLB players to see how they live. Sure the 1% of them get uber-wealthy, but the majority do not.

That's cool, but why the players and not the owners? You're saying the players are so rich they should give up money for the minor league players, but doesn't that apply even more so to the owners?

Even more reason IMO for the wealthiest players to take the high ground and make a statement to the owners: "hey you fat cat @&#!*!$ ---- if us star players can come together for this cause, then why can't you?!"

[dev6015]

"Shaq is rich. The guy who signs his check is wealthy." - Chris Rock

The narrative that MLB players are all "rich" and coddled and that owners are not 100x richer - on average - than the average MLB player with a high school education (or less for kids from the Dominican Republic) that will make $600K for three years in the mLB (not including 40% taxes and 10% agent fees) before being released and bouncing around indy league ball for the rest of his career boggles my mind.

[premium1981]

Originally Posted by JRX

I'm saying they don't make them overt. What's the point of limiting salary arbitration, the luxury tax, super 2 status etc. Everything is designed to limit salary growth. They don't come out and say "We demand a salary cap and no floor" but that's exactly what they end up doing.

What changes did they request to what was already in place? I'm looking for an actual list so I can compare to the players. Here's a hint: You won't be able to make a list. Why? Because, once again, it's the players making all of the demands.

[crownand]

Originally Posted by SupermanBrandon

Baseball just can't get out of their own way, EVER! There's not a single leader in all of baseball (owners or players). They could've captured the ENTIRE sports market for months during Covid...but No Thanks! They've not had truly marketable players (like now), for a decade...but No Thanks. Lots of bending over and picking up dimes while stepping over dollars. There's no urgency, ever. There's nobody looking to the future of the game.

Sticky that one at the top right there! Nice take.

Kids just want to play soccer nowadays anyway so just let baseball die I guess is what these guys think.

[dev6015]

Originally Posted by dev6015

"Shaq is rich. The guy who signs his check is wealthy." - Chris Rock

The narrative that MLB players are all "rich" and coddled and that owners are not 100x richer - on average - than the average MLB player with a high school education (or less for kids from the Dominican Republic) that will make $600K for three years in the mLB (not including 40% taxes and 10% agent fees) before being released and bouncing around indy league ball for the rest of his career boggles my mind.

The owners have some reasonable positions (I think a salary cap might make sense...if it is paired with a sufficiently high floor in the $120MM range). But the way they have conducted themselves in these negotiations is shameful. They DGAF about the players and are willing to torpedo the future of the game in an effort for Dick Monfort and Bob Nutting to pick up another 2% profit margin.

[holygrail22]

Originally Posted by premium1981

What changes did they request to what was already in place? I'm looking for an actual list so I can compare to the players. Here's a hint: You won't be able to make a list. Why? Because, once again, it's the players making all of the demands.

Well, when you already have a very favorable position why would you ask for things to change? Easy to convince outside observers that it must be the other side’s fault. But just a little bit of critical thinking and that falls apart

Also - owners are demanding 14 team playoff in addition to what else has been mentioned