2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[Corporal Lance]

I literally tried to respond to your questions. There are too many, and way too many issues to respond to. I applaud your enthusiasm, though.

We would have to talk for hours.

CLB

[trixstar]

Yea....this is necessary lol

[ilovethelakings]

Originally Posted by rman112

He said you're a moron.

Why the hostility, broseph? I didn't know we were beefing. Well, guess I need to add you to the list.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by trixstar

Yea....this is necessary lol

Harper may not be a HOF'er, but the dude gives everything.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by rman112

With this attitude, why not move to the places where you view people as being more on the ball?

Actually have been planning my move to europe or southeast asia, but also for their more lax crypto laws (srs). Obviously that little virus thing kind of put a temporary halt to that. The recent climate is making my decision that much easier.

And no, this isn't an issue of red or blue for me (my ballot does not align with colors). Political parties are nothing more than a divisive measure to blind peoples' ability to separate loyalty from qualification.

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by hairysasquatch

Are we supposed to highlight our answers, Mr. TheFrenzy?
Can this quiz be submitted on Canvas?
TBH - I had a blast designing maddeningly hard multiple-choice Canvas quizzes this Spring and I have added it to my repertoire of torture techniques for the future.

Highlighting is fine.

I haven't set up a Politics Thread Canvas module yet.

I think the most tortuous thing I ever encountered on Canvas was working with a faculty member gave Map questions in the form of Short Answer. That's right, students had to describe where on a map that would mark various locations. Absolute insanity.

[babyfaceposey]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Do you have a link to the claim? Nothing in the article says that.

Was going to say the same thing.

[babyfaceposey]

Originally Posted by RedSoxFan28

I'll ask again since no one answered last night when I asked
"Were any of them shot with rubber bullets, pepper spray/ bullets, flash bangs, assaulted etc for their protests? Plenty of the "peaceful"/ verbal protestors the past couple of days have been."

Wrong place wrong time man, it is sad to see. Everyone knows whats going to happen, best place to be is home with your loved ones to removed yourself from being possibly injured because of the idiots rioting.

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by Corporal Lance

I literally tried to respond to your questions. There are too many, and way too many issues to respond to. I applaud your enthusiasm, though.

We would have to talk for hours.

CLB

I do appreciate it.

I feel like it's easier for people to hash out differences when those differences are clearly stated and laid out in a coherent fashion.

Then again, it's not a meme or name-calling, so I'm lucky if one person responds to anything I post.

[RedSoxFan28]

https://twitter.com/Urquwill/status/1267618648203689985

[zonacats8]

Here you go, now people can feel free to bash my answers per the usual on here......

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Anyone want to take a stab at it?

1. Gathering in a church to worship in accordance with 1st Amendment rights during a pandemic should be:

- Legally prohibited
- Legally permitted but socially discouraged
- Legally permitted and socially encouraged

2. Gathering to protest in accordance with 1st Amendment rights during a pandemic should be:

- Legally prohibited
- Legally permitted but socially discouraged
- Legally permitted and socially encouraged

3. George Floyd died as a result of:

- Racially-motivated police brutality indicative of deep-seated systemic racism
- The same kind of police brutality that affects all races and is unacceptable
I think it was racially motivated in this case, but i do think there is unacceptable police brutality of some form against all races
- Poor decision-making by the police that was unfortunate and complicated by underlying conditions but did not rise to the level of "brutality"

4. The media coverage of the protests should:

- Stress the need for social distancing similar to how they had done for all reports of large gatherings just the week before
- Downplay the threat of COVID-19
- Completely ignore COVID-19 while covering the protests

5. The instances of media members being arrested / struck by police projectiles represents:

- The unfortunate, but inevitable, outcome of inserting one's self into the midst of chaotic riots wherein targets can easily be misidentified and orders misunderstood
- The actions of a few corrupt/incompetent officers, but not a system-wide conspiracy
- A coordinated attempt to suppress the press and signal to Trump supporters that the media are the enemy of the people

6. When it comes to "protestors" v "rioters":

- I feel like I can easily tell them apart and my views of one group do not affect my views of the other
I mean I can tell them apart by their actions, protesting is peaceful, rioting is not (but it's not like you can just pick who is who out of a lineup outside of their actions if that's what you meant)
- I recognize that different groups have different aims right now, but it is often hard to tell them apart
- I see them as one and the same

7. I believe that the most violent and destructive of the rioters are actually:

- Frustrated locals expressing themselves the only way they can under the circumstances
- Opportunistic locals who care little for Mr. Floyd
- Opportunistic outsiders who are selfishly engaging in "chaos tourism"
I have no idea if they are locals or outsiders, but either way they're just opportunistic people taking advantage of free reign
- Undercover police/white supremacists engaging in "agent provocateur" tactics
- ANTIFA/Red Guard/Anarchist Leftists
- Foreign actors

8. During these heightened times, I am finding the more trustworthy source to be:

- Twitter
- Facebook
- Right-leaning media (Ex. FOX News)
- Left-leaning media (Ex. MSNBC)
- International media (Ex. BBC News)
- Various livestreams
- Blowout Cards
- None of the above
nobody is really all that trust worthy right now, but if I'd say left leaning would be the most likely of the domestic media as I think the right leaning only care about protecting Trump
- All of the above, but only by fact-checking each against the other

9. Generally speaking, I consider the widespread destruction of property to be:

- Both fair and good—stores like Target will be just fine and these people deserve to express their frustration through violence at this point
- Not good, but understandable to the point where I would only support the prosecution of the most egregious rioters
- I see both sides and have a completely neutral view
- Not good and I support the prosecution of those who can be identified, but I think we should be focusing more on the protestors' message
- 100% criminal and it only hurts the message of the protestors
- 100% criminal and it has caused me to stop listening to the message of the protestors

10. In response to the rioting and looting, I feel that:

- The government should just let this play out and we'll focus on cleaning up the mess later
- Local police forces should simply monitor the riots and ensure that emergency services like ambulances and fire trucks can operate, but should otherwise not engage
- The national guard should assist the local police in monitoring the riots and ensuring that emergency services like ambulances and fire trucks can operate, but should otherwise not engage
- In light of multiple failings by state and local governments to contain the riots, the national guard should actively engage with the rioters and suppress them
Probably the toughest one to answer so far with the way the answers are written, as I think the real answer is this but with a caveat of where they can do it safely and not endanger those peacefully protesting and/or the police and national guard members
- In light of multiple failings by state and local governments to contain the riots, the national guard should establish martial law and end the riots by whatever means necessary

11. Finally, after all is said and done, I would like to see:

- An even stronger police force with less oversight
- Nothing change
- Problematic departments identified and reformed through increased officer accountability
- Nationwide reform—whether that be increased officer training, greater restrictions placed on the use of force, or requiring former military members to meet the same standards as civilian applicants
toughest for me to answer as I don't know much about the topic to be honest, but I think this would be the best answer (although I don't know anything about European or Japanese policing to be fair)
- Major nationwide reforms to bring us more in line with Western European and Japanese styles of policing
- The complete overhaul of our nation's police force and possibly even the reduction of its size
- #### the police and abolish the entire institution

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by zonacats8

Here you go, now people can feel free to bash my answers per the usual on here......

I love you. I'll highlight my thoughts in a sec.

*goes back to read*

[zonacats8]

Originally Posted by trixstar

Yea....this is necessary lol

Without context it may actually be necessary.

If this was in DC when Trump was outside, then yes it actually is necessary to have someone with a sniper rifle on watch.

Any other instance, then no, not necessary.

[babyfaceposey]

Originally Posted by trixstar

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncn....co/AwOBphuMB7

This actually proves nothing. WE SAID IT IS, SO BELIEVE US. What techniques did they use to come to this conclusion, did they trace the ip back to Joe Bobs house?

[xbignick]

If anyone needs a NYC stream...looks like more looting than yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inQzzlIHmC4

[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Anyone want to take a stab at it?

1. Gathering in a church to worship in accordance with 1st Amendment rights during a pandemic should be:

- Legally prohibited this but do livestreaming, understand that older folks may not come.
- Legally permitted but socially discouraged
- Legally permitted and socially encouraged

2. Gathering to protest in accordance with 1st Amendment rights during a pandemic should be:

- Legally prohibited Yes, as long as it's peaceful
- Legally permitted but socially discouraged
- Legally permitted and socially encouraged

3. George Floyd died as a result of:

- Racially-motivated police brutality indicative of deep-seated systemic racism
- The same kind of police brutality that affects all races and is unacceptable This. Is it a race issue? Maybe, but that's an assumption
- Poor decision-making by the police that was unfortunate and complicated by underlying conditions but did not rise to the level of "brutality"

4. The media coverage of the protests should:

- Stress the need for social distancing similar to how they had done for all reports of large gatherings just the week before 159% this. When you denounce a protestin Michigan and not a riot, not a good look.
- Downplay the threat of COVID-19
- Completely ignore COVID-19 while covering the protests

5. The instances of media members being arrested / struck by police projectiles represents:

- The unfortunate, but inevitable, outcome of inserting one's self into the midst of chaotic riots wherein targets can easily be misidentified and orders misunderstood this and the one below too. Some of it is misidentified... some is bad cops
- The actions of a few corrupt/incompetent officers, but not a system-wide conspiracy
- A coordinated attempt to suppress the press and signal to Trump supporters that the media are the enemy of the people

6. When it comes to "protestors" v "rioters":

- I feel like I can easily tell them apart and my views of one group do not affect my views of the other Yes
- I recognize that different groups have different aims right now, but it is often hard to tell them apart
- I see them as one and the same

7. I believe that the most violent and destructive of the rioters are actually:

- Frustrated locals expressing themselves the only way they can under the circumstances
- Opportunistic locals who care little for Mr. Floyd This
- Opportunistic outsiders who are selfishly engaging in "chaos tourism" And this
- Undercover police/white supremacists engaging in "agent provocateur" tactics
- ANTIFA/Red Guard/Anarchist Leftists
- Foreign actors

8. During these heightened times, I am finding the more trustworthy source to be:

- Twitter
- Facebook
- Right-leaning media (Ex. FOX News)
- Left-leaning media (Ex. MSNBC)
- International media (Ex. BBC News)
- Various livestreams
- Blowout Cards
- None of the above I don't trust the media
- All of the above, but only by fact-checking each against the other

9. Generally speaking, I consider the widespread destruction of property to be:

- Both fair and good—stores like Target will be just fine and these people deserve to express their frustration through violence at this point
- Not good, but understandable to the point where I would only support the prosecution of the most egregious rioters
- I see both sides and have a completely neutral view
- Not good and I support the prosecution of those who can be identified, but I think we should be focusing more on the protestors' message
- 100% criminal and it only hurts the message of the protestors This
- 100% criminal and it has caused me to stop listening to the message of the protestors

10. In response to the rioting and looting, I feel that:

- The government should just let this play out and we'll focus on cleaning up the mess later
- Local police forces should simply monitor the riots and ensure that emergency services like ambulances and fire trucks can operate, but should otherwise not engage
- The national guard should assist the local police in monitoring the riots and ensuring that emergency services like ambulances and fire trucks can operate, but should otherwise not engage
- In light of multiple failings by state and local governments to contain the riots, the national guard should actively engage with the rioters and suppress them This. I dont want to see Martial Law take place
- In light of multiple failings by state and local governments to contain the riots, the national guard should establish martial law and end the riots by whatever means necessary

11. Finally, after all is said and done, I would like to see:

- An even stronger police force with less oversight
- Nothing change
- Problematic departments identified and reformed through increased officer accountability
- Nationwide reform—whether that be increased officer training, greater restrictions placed on the use of force, or requiring former military members to meet the same standards as civilian applicants This
- Major nationwide reforms to bring us more in line with Western European and Japanese styles of policing
- The complete overhaul of our nation's police force and possibly even the reduction of its size
- #### the police and abolish the entire institution

Answered in bold

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by babyfaceposey

This actually proves nothing. WE SAID IT IS, SO BELIEVE US. What techniques did they use to come to this conclusion, did they trace the ip back to Joe Bobs house?

Probably. I would think Twitter knows how to do that. The article also indicates they’ve run into this group before.

[Pete Schweddy]

Originally Posted by trixstar

Yea....this is necessary lol

The problem?

I went to a Padres game last March during opening weekend. A few hours before the game I went for a walk around Petco. I came around one corner and there wer dozens of cop cars line up, and the officers were unloading their gear. Several were snipers like this guy. I asked if there was a special guest or event during the game, and they said it was standard. They do it for any large gathering. Marathons, concerts, conventions, etc.

[zonacats8]

Originally Posted by Pete Schweddy

The problem?

I went to a Padres game last March during opening weekend. A few hours before the game I went for a walk around Petco. I came around one corner and there wer dozens of cop cars line up, and the officers were unloading their gear. Several were snipers like this guy. I asked if there was a special guest or event during the game, and they said it was standard. They do it for any large gathering. Marathons, concerts, conventions, etc.

Are you sure you're not confusing a sniper rifle with an assault rifle?

I've been to countless events in my life and always seen police with military style assault rifles at them, but I have never once seen a sniper rifle.

Not saying they might not be there, I've just never seen it once before myself.

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by zonacats8

Are you sure you're not confusing a sniper rifle with an assault rifle?

I've been to countless events in my life and always seen police with military style assault rifles at them, but I have never once seen a sniper rifle.

Not saying they might not be there, I've just never seen it once before myself.

I’ve seen them at large events as well. I assume law enforcement has to consider everything. Terrorists, snipers, the Dallas cop killer, the Vegas shooter etc. there’s already a ton of people using the silent protests as their cover to commit crimes.

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Anyone want to take a stab at it?

1. Gathering in a church to worship in accordance with 1st Amendment rights during a pandemic should be:

- Legally prohibited
- Legally permitted but socially discouraged
- Legally permitted and socially encouraged

2. Gathering to protest in accordance with 1st Amendment rights during a pandemic should be:

- Legally prohibited
- Legally permitted but socially discouraged
- Legally permitted and socially encouraged

3. George Floyd died as a result of:

- Racially-motivated police brutality indicative of deep-seated systemic racism
- The same kind of police brutality that affects all races and is unacceptable
I understand the arguments for #1, though I see instances of this kind of police behavior affecting all races—despite these instances rarely making headlines.
- Poor decision-making by the police that was unfortunate and complicated by underlying conditions but did not rise to the level of "brutality"

4. The media coverage of the protests should:

- Stress the need for social distancing similar to how they had done for all reports of large gatherings just the week before
- Downplay the threat of COVID-19
- Completely ignore COVID-19 while covering the protests

5. The instances of media members being arrested / struck by police projectiles represents:

- The unfortunate, but inevitable, outcome of inserting one's self into the midst of chaotic riots wherein targets can easily be misidentified and orders misunderstood
I just can't quite make the leap to "officers are intentionally going after reporters" yet—Not to say I'm opposed to the idea, I just haven't been persuaded yet.
- The actions of a few corrupt/incompetent officers, but not a system-wide conspiracy
- A coordinated attempt to suppress the press and signal to Trump supporters that the media are the enemy of the people

6. When it comes to "protestors" v "rioters":

- I feel like I can easily tell them apart and my views of one group do not affect my views of the other
- I recognize that different groups have different aims right now, but it is often hard to tell them apart
- I see them as one and the same

7. I believe that the most violent and destructive of the rioters are actually:

- Frustrated locals expressing themselves the only way they can under the circumstances
- Opportunistic locals who care little for Mr. Floyd
- Opportunistic outsiders who are selfishly engaging in "chaos tourism"
- Undercover police/white supremacists engaging in "agent provocateur" tactics
- ANTIFA/Red Guard/Anarchist Leftists
- Foreign actors

8. During these heightened times, I am finding the more trustworthy source to be:

- Twitter
- Facebook
- Right-leaning media (Ex. FOX News)
- Left-leaning media (Ex. MSNBC)
- International media (Ex. BBC News)
- Various livestreams
- Blowout Cards
- None of the above
- All of the above, but only by fact-checking each against the other

9. Generally speaking, I consider the widespread destruction of property to be:

- Both fair and good—stores like Target will be just fine and these people deserve to express their frustration through violence at this point
- Not good, but understandable to the point where I would only support the prosecution of the most egregious rioters
- I see both sides and have a completely neutral view
- Not good and I support the prosecution of those who can be identified, but I think we should be focusing more on the protestors' message
- 100% criminal and it only hurts the message of the protestors
Even though I feel I can tell the two groups apart, I can't help but think that the focus for most undecided Americans has shifted towards blaming the looters.
- 100% criminal and it has caused me to stop listening to the message of the protestors

10. In response to the rioting and looting, I feel that:

- The government should just let this play out and we'll focus on cleaning up the mess later
- Local police forces should simply monitor the riots and ensure that emergency services like ambulances and fire trucks can operate, but should otherwise not engage
- The national guard should assist the local police in monitoring the riots and ensuring that emergency services like ambulances and fire trucks can operate, but should otherwise not engage
- In light of multiple failings by state and local governments to contain the riots, the national guard should actively engage with the rioters and suppress them
- In light of multiple failings by state and local governments to contain the riots, the national guard should establish martial law and end the riots by whatever means necessary

11. Finally, after all is said and done, I would like to see:

- An even stronger police force with less oversight
- Nothing change
- Problematic departments identified and reformed through increased officer accountability
- Nationwide reform—whether that be increased officer training, greater restrictions placed on the use of force, or requiring former military members to meet the same standards as civilian applicants
I think on top of this, we need to develop more understanding for people like police, fire, EMS, nurses, teachers, social workers, etc who work hands on with people—often people in crisis. Even the most adept public service employee is going to be faced with split-second, life-and-death decisions that demand actions that would not look great to outside observers. I think we need to support these groups so that only the best among us with will seek out such employment and the "bad apples" can be more easily weeded out.
- Major nationwide reforms to bring us more in line with Western European and Japanese styles of policing
- The complete overhaul of our nation's police force and possibly even the reduction of its size
- #### the police and abolish the entire institution

Here's my take on things.

[trixstar]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Anyone want to take a stab at it?

[/INDENT]

1. Gathering in a church to worship in accordance with 1st Amendment rights during a pandemic should be:
- Legally permitted but socially discouraged

2. Gathering to protest in accordance with 1st Amendment rights during a pandemic should be:
- Legally permitted but socially discouraged

3. George Floyd died as a result of:
- Racially-motivated police brutality indicative of deep-seated systemic racism
- The same kind of police brutality that affects all races and is unacceptable
I want to add to this answer. I left both highlighted because I believe there is police brutality amongst all races AND I believe minorities are given less of a "benefit of the doubt" that whites are given. I don't think police go around saying on there's a black guy lets kill him.

4. The media coverage of the protests should:
- Stress the need for social distancing similar to how they had done for all reports of large gatherings just the week before

5. The instances of media members being arrested / struck by police projectiles represents:
- The unfortunate, but inevitable, outcome of inserting one's self into the midst of chaotic riots wherein targets can easily be misidentified and orders misunderstood
- The actions of a few corrupt/incompetent officers, but not a system-wide conspiracy
Again I think both answers fit here. I don't think they're going around in the back of there head targeting media saying ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE.

6. When it comes to "protestors" v "rioters":
- I recognize that different groups have different aims right now, but it is often hard to tell them apart
I felt like this was the best answer even though in some cases it's obvious to tell them apart most times it's not

7. I believe that the most violent and destructive of the rioters are actually:
- Frustrated locals expressing themselves the only way they can under the circumstances
- Opportunistic locals who care little for Mr. Floyd
- Opportunistic outsiders who are selfishly engaging in "chaos tourism"
- Undercover police/white supremacists engaging in "agent provocateur" tactics
- ANTIFA/Red Guard/Anarchist Leftists

I honestly think all of these people are mixed in.

8. During these heightened times, I am finding the more trustworthy source to be:
- Twitter
- Facebook
- Right-leaning media (Ex. FOX News)
- Left-leaning media (Ex. MSNBC)
- International media (Ex. BBC News)
- Various livestreams
- Blowout Cards
- None of the above
- All of the above, but only by fact-checking each against the other

9. Generally speaking, I consider the widespread destruction of property to be:
- Not good and I support the prosecution of those who can be identified, but I think we should be focusing more on the protestors' message

10. In response to the rioting and looting, I feel that:
- The national guard should assist the local police in monitoring the riots and ensuring that emergency services like ambulances and fire trucks can operate, but should otherwise not engage

11. Finally, after all is said and done, I would like to see:
- Nationwide reform—whether that be increased officer training, greater restrictions placed on the use of force, or requiring former military members to meet the same standards as civilian applicants
Primarily I would like to see the end of Qualified Immunity and completely ending the policy that allows the military to sell it's equipement to police departments. Those are a bare minimum starting points.

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by zonacats8

Here you go, now people can feel free to bash my answers per the usual on here......

Originally Posted by DegaBama

Answered in bold

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Here's my take on things.

I think we might find quite a bit of overlap between peoples' views.

[babyfaceposey]

Originally Posted by rcmb3220

Probably. I would think Twitter knows how to do that. The article also indicates they’ve run into this group before.

To many variables can spoof an ip, uses hops all kinds of stuff.

[zonacats8]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Here's my take on things.

I get where you're coming from with #5, but I think we answered that question differently based on interpretation of the possible answers.

I answered the second one, but not because the police are attacking the media because they are the media, but they are doing it out of the incompetence portion of the answer and just straight up aren't thinking things through before acting.

I just have a hard time believing the reporters aren't easily distinguishable from the protesters and rioters. Yea, when they are running away with the crowd due to tear gas or something, then I could see them getting hit by accident.

But when they are standing there with a microphone, usually not directly in the middle of a protest but more off to the side/edge of it, with someone holding a camera and filming them, it's pretty clear they're a media member covering the protest.

Maybe the answer to this is media members start wearing bright colored vests in situations like this, similar to how sports photographers have on the vests while on the sideline, be very easy to know who they are at times like this.