New "Investment" Opportunity? BGS -> PSA Post yours!

[pdxprospect]

When I first got into this hobby I never intended on looking at card collection as an "investment" opportunity. I bought cards that I wanted and that I thought I would want forever. I wanted to buy and collect...never sell anything.

However, as I quickly learned, I could not keep buying (collecting) more without an infinitely income, which I do not have, to keep up with the hobby. (Perhaps I am not the only one?!)

So in 2011, I quickly got into minor league prospects, following all of the major draft and prospect trackers trying to find the next big thing. On top of that, I joined the grading companies memberships (Primarily BGS) and grading cards, noticing the value increase of a raw card on ebay vs a BGS 9.5. I would buy 2 of every card, grade both, and hope for 9.5's (Which happened quite often). I would sell one and keep one, essentially using the profit of the sold card to pay for the kept card. I then would repeat.

Quite soon, I noticed, I was not the only one doing this. Apparently every one else was as well. And now, with more cards being graded than ever, where there is immediate skeptism on every "raw" card on ebay...Ive had to try some new "tricks". Of course I want to keep buying, but lack the bottomless income my desires have...

Disclaimer: This is not for everyone. Only those would consider risk for a possible reward (which is me.)

With that said, I feel there is a great opportunity right now with the crossover from BGS to PSA. Finding high quality BGS cards (perhaps quad 9.5's), cracking, and sending to PSA. I noticed this primarily while watching the 2011 Topps Update Trout BGS/PSA Pricing.

Again, disclaimer: I have no interest in persuading anyone to do to this, but just to share what I have done and why.

Yes, there is a greater cost to PSA, than BGS, but it can be worth it in the higher end cards.

When I was looking for evidence of this working, I could find some limited posts, but did not locate a dedicated thread (perhaps I did not try hard enough?). It has happened, but not documented in any one area. Perhaps this can be that area to post the risks and rewards of this opportunity.

With all of that said, here was my first attempt...

2009 Bowman Sterling Mike Trout BGS 9.5
Subs: CE-9, E-10, CO-9.5, S-9.5/AU-10
I bought this card for $680, so I had little "risk" as even if it had come back a 9, I could have sold. However, that is not what happened.



This one, I sent to PSA to have both the card and the AU graded:



This one worked out. I was able to sell it, and buy my next card which I will share in the next post. But, I wanted to get the conversation started. Give others some ideas, some wins, and some cautions.

Please share your crossover stories (good and bad) for others to know.

[IgnatiusJReilly]

This is definitely a good scheme. On the vintage side, I play a similar game with sgc and psa.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Garmin]

Interesting post, I’ve been thinking about exactly this. I’ve been chasing down ‘16 BC Soto Autos and have noticed the PSA 10s are selling for more than BGS 9.5/10s, even with autos IMO are 9s. The common flaw in the auto of the ones graded 9 is the line he draws under his first name. The first two photos show some PSA 10s that would surely grade a 9 auto; but sold for well over what a 9.5/10 (or even a 10/9) would:



Here’s a 9 auto for reference:


The 10/9 sold for $508. A crossover to a PSA 10 would get $660 to prove your point.

[jw8]

Originally Posted by pdxprospect

When I first got into this hobby I never intended on looking at card collection as an "investment" opportunity. I bought cards that I wanted and that I thought I would want forever. I wanted to buy and collect...never sell anything.

However, as I quickly learned, I could not keep buying (collecting) more without an infinitely income, which I do not have, to keep up with the hobby. (Perhaps I am not the only one?!)

So in 2011, I quickly got into minor league prospects, following all of the major draft and prospect trackers trying to find the next big thing. On top of that, I joined the grading companies memberships (Primarily BGS) and grading cards, noticing the value increase of a raw card on ebay vs a BGS 9.5. I would buy 2 of every card, grade both, and hope for 9.5's (Which happened quite often). I would sell one and keep one, essentially using the profit of the sold card to pay for the kept card. I then would repeat.

Quite soon, I noticed, I was not the only one doing this. Apparently every one else was as well. And now, with more cards being graded than ever, where there is immediate skeptism on every "raw" card on ebay...Ive had to try some new "tricks". Of course I want to keep buying, but lack the bottomless income my desires have...

Disclaimer: This is not for everyone. Only those would consider risk for a possible reward (which is me.)

With that said, I feel there is a great opportunity right now with the crossover from BGS to PSA. Finding high quality BGS cards (perhaps quad 9.5's), cracking, and sending to PSA. I noticed this primarily while watching the 2011 Topps Update Trout BGS/PSA Pricing.

Again, disclaimer: I have no interest in persuading anyone to do to this, but just to share what I have done and why.

Yes, there is a greater cost to PSA, than BGS, but it can be worth it in the higher end cards.

When I was looking for evidence of this working, I could find some limited posts, but did not locate a dedicated thread (perhaps I did not try hard enough?). It has happened, but not documented in any one area. Perhaps this can be that area to post the risks and rewards of this opportunity.

With all of that said, here was my first attempt...

2009 Bowman Sterling Mike Trout BGS 9.5
Subs: CE-9, E-10, CO-9.5, S-9.5/AU-10
I bought this card for $680, so I had little "risk" as even if it had come back a 9, I could have sold. However, that is not what happened.



This one, I sent to PSA to have both the card and the AU graded:



This one worked out. I was able to sell it, and buy my next card which I will share in the next post. But, I wanted to get the conversation started. Give others some ideas, some wins, and some cautions.

Please share your crossover stories (good and bad) for others to know.

Good post. What was the roi on the Trout after factoring in submission costs, shipping, insurance, PayPal, etc?

[wharfrat7624]

I have sent two 2011 BC Trout 175 BGS 9.5’s and two 2011 BC Trout 101 BGS 9.5’s to PSA for crossover. Should have back in 2-3 weeks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pdxprospect]

Originally Posted by jw8

Good post. What was the roi on the Trout after factoring in submission costs, shipping, insurance, PayPal, etc?

Thanks.
Depends on which way you look at it. Even though I profited $2,060 on this particular deal, I would see the ROI delta of the crossover (from BGS 9.5 to a PSA 10) being closer to $865 (after all fees). Hope that answers the question.

Now, to another crossover example...

Once I sold the PSA 10/10, I quickly bought a BGS 9.5/10 (Quad 9.5's) for $1,950, which I cracked and subbed and just got it back this week and graded a PSA 10

SCA is not working for me right now, so I have attached my scans...

[pryantexas]

Curious if the OP and/or others have thoughts on whether you are better off cracking out the BGS 9.5 and subbing or leaving in the BGS case and crossing over?

[notfast]

People have been doing this for a long time...

[dictoresno]

I didn't sell any of my crossovers, as they were all for my PC. So I can't definitively say I have "made" money on them. However, I think I definitely increased my value on this by a bunch with this crossover. Paid $400 for it in a BGS slab. These never come up for sale as it is so im sure I would easily be able to make an extra few hundred on it if I did sell.



And I also have this which I cracked out, cleaned the surface on and currently have at PSA. and I would be surprised if it doesn't get a PSA 10, worst case a 9. Yes, it was slabbed by BGS looking like that, smear streak, dirt film and all. Pretty sure I would be doubling my money on this as well.



After.....

[enyouartist]

Originally Posted by dictoresno

I didn't sell any of my crossovers, as they were all for my PC. So I can't definitively say I have "made" money on them. However, I think I definitely increased my value on this by a bunch with this crossover. Paid $400 for it in a BGS slab. These never come up for sale as it is so im sure I would easily be able to make an extra few hundred on it if I did sell.

Did you crack the BGS 9.5 Jeter before submitting?

[MBumgarner40]

Originally Posted by pryantexas

Curious if the OP and/or others have thoughts on whether you are better off cracking out the BGS 9.5 and subbing or leaving in the BGS case and crossing over?

You shouldn’t leave them in the case, this one youtuber Eliteco3 tried to crossover about 25 BGS cards to PSA to get the same grade...only one of them crossed over lol.

[Jay9Suited]

Before:


After:

[crose]

I only cracked these out because I thought they would look better in PSA slabs. I was pleasantly surprised when the grades popped. My guess is Beckett graded the black backs a little harder than PSA did. No clue on the values or how much their value may have increased, I think two of them are pop 1. The Dorn was a RCR 9.

I have a few more I’ll share later when I get back home.



Generated from my Apple iPhone using tools.sportscard.trade

[enyouartist]

Originally Posted by crose

I only cracked these out because I thought they would look better in PSA slabs. I was pleasantly surprised when the grades popped. My guess is Beckett graded the black backs a little harder than PSA did. No clue on the values or how much their value may have increased, I think two of them are pop 1. The Dorn was a RCR 9.

I have a few more I’ll share later when I get back home.



Generated from my Apple iPhone using tools.sportscard.trade

I’m shocked that the Rickie Vaughn with a BGS8 corner got a gem mint PSA10

[RookieAddict]

I'm not shocked at all. I have had a ton of cards with dinged corners come back 10's.

Originally Posted by enyouartist

I’m shocked that the Rickie Vaughn with a BGS8 corner got a gem mint PSA10

[estebahn73]

Wow, How did the Charlie Sheen card with an 8 on the corners got PSA 10???? With BGS or PSA messed up BADLY

Originally Posted by crose

I only cracked these out because I thought they would look better in PSA slabs. I was pleasantly surprised when the grades popped. My guess is Beckett graded the black backs a little harder than PSA did. No clue on the values or how much their value may have increased, I think two of them are pop 1. The Dorn was a RCR 9.

I have a few more I’ll share later when I get back home.



Generated from my Apple iPhone using tools.sportscard.trade

[estebahn73]

I'm puzzled by this move. Why would you spend $1950 on BGS 9.5 to convert to PSA 10 which may garner marginal premium at best if at all?? I think there are better cards to buy for higher ROIs.

Originally Posted by pdxprospect

Thanks.
Depends on which way you look at it. Even though I profited $2,060 on this particular deal, I would see the ROI delta of the crossover (from BGS 9.5 to a PSA 10) being closer to $865 (after all fees). Hope that answers the question.

Now, to another crossover example...

Once I sold the PSA 10/10, I quickly bought a BGS 9.5/10 (Quad 9.5's) for $1,950, which I cracked and subbed and just got it back this week and graded a PSA 10

SCA is not working for me right now, so I have attached my scans...

[jaredw]

Originally Posted by estebahn73

I'm puzzled by this move. Why would you spend $1950 on BGS 9.5 to convert to PSA 10 which may garner marginal premium at best if at all?? I think there are better cards to buy for higher ROIs.

It's an interesting idea in theory but I agree. Case in point, the past PSA 10 Sterlings have been for $1827, $1550, $1675, and $2100.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-Bowman...orig_cvip=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-Bowman...orig_cvip=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2009-Bowman...d=123626355330

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mike-Trout-...orig_cvip=true

[ThoseBackPages]

Before:



After:

[enyouartist]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

Before:



After:

Did you crack these?

[corockies]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

Before:



After:

Holy #@#@#@#@ a Bowman Platinum turned into a Topps Finest? How did you do that???

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by enyouartist

Did you crack these?

no, straight cross years back (before Trout was Trout).
the BCD Ref took two tries

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by corockies

Holy #@#@#@#@ a Bowman Platinum turned into a Topps Finest? How did you do that???

MAGIC!

[RYBOWSKI97]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

Before:



After:

can i have one? my trout bowman platinum rookies are lonely cause they have no company. lol. thank is awesome stuff man.

[jw8]

Originally Posted by pdxprospect

Thanks.
Depends on which way you look at it. Even though I profited $2,060 on this particular deal, I would see the ROI delta of the crossover (from BGS 9.5 to a PSA 10) being closer to $865 (after all fees). Hope that answers the question.

Thanks for the reply, that helps conceptualize the opportunity and seems like the juice is worth the squeeze.

What is the process for cracking these BGS cases? And how do I clean the surface of the card? I have a 9.5 BGS LBJ 2003 Topps Chrome with (9.5, 9.5, 9.5, 10) marks that would be a good candidate.