LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by MIRRABB

What a bizarre and totally unnecessary risk to his reputation to not pass along that message and hope buybuymj would never create and account and post what he shared.

The internet can be so cruel.

[SanAntonioSpurs]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

27guy has known this for weeks....

This whole thread has been nothing short of a huge circle jerk, now it looks like 27guy was jerking the hardest.

I really hate what the hobby has become. I expect a little drama only because money is involved but it's one thing after another. Upstanding people getting busted lying, trimming, replacing patches, and so on... and people expect to bring new money into a hobby that's got scandal after scandal...?

[Wiseysez]

Originally Posted by MIRRABB

What a bizarre and totally unnecessary risk to his reputation to not pass along that message and hope buybuymj would never create and account and post what he shared.

And on top of that to share messages word for word that he promised not to share and omit the one message that definitely cleared up any confusion about what # was being talked about. I feel dirty with all that time I wasted reading his top 100 countdown. I need a shower.

[starvela]

Originally Posted by buybuymj

About 27guy, I thought PM was PM, this is not an issue about you and me, I don't think it was necessary to disclose "all" messages to defend yourself, that's still OK, I don't care. Since you decided to disclose all messages minus one last message I sent and after that I didn't hear from you, here's a screenshot from my eBay's sent inbox. And it says how I look at it.

I agree 100% that a private PM, should remain a PM unless agreed by both parties to be shared..Regardless of anything, your private messages should NOT have been posted/shared!! Glad you don't care either way and thank you for sharing all this info...

[jj2]

Originally Posted by Soleternity

You literally made a "Merry Xmas everyone" post. I've seen multiple posts open with "The lies, the deception, the deceit, the pure evil..." is this an audition to write murder mystery novels or a thread about basketball cards? The mob mentality is off the rails. And you all feed into each other. This aspect of human nature leads to terrible outcomes. I'm the guy who first looked at this thread a few hours ago and is telling you it's not *that* serious.

We're talking about 2 trimmed Lebron rookies and potentially more owned by BNC. That's a big deal in the context of basketball cards and something I will bear in mind if I ever seek to transact with him. As should everyone. There's many thousands of dollars in value at stake and potentially lost here. But I do not need to point this out, it's already plain to anyone with a brain who is reading this post.

As far as *who* trimmed #87, the evidence is clearly leaning one way, but I've got a feeling there are still a few twists left. That's something you learn after reading enough of these threads.

As far as The27Guy being "busted," relax with all that. The dude is the best commenter on these boards. True, he should've posted about #87 after he got the evidence. But he didn't and it's not a big deal, since the person with the info came forward, as they should have in the first place. It's a weak move to ask The27Guy to post because they're scared of the blowback. In other words, they didn't mind putting the heat on him.

Not that serious compared to what??? This is a basketball forum. The Exquisite Lebron RPA is one of the top cards in the entire hobby. Am I missing something?

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by SanAntonioSpurs

This whole thread has been nothing short of a huge circle jerk, now it looks like 27guy was jerking the hardest.

I really hate what the hobby has become. I expect a little drama only because money is involved but it's one thing after another. Upstanding people getting busted lying, trimming, replacing patches, and so on... and people expect to bring new money into a hobby that's got scandal after scandal...?

Lol.


It's absolutely hilarious to me how so many people can be blinded by a facade.

'Oh, well he's a good guy.' 'He's a longstanding hobby ambassador...of course he has good intentions!'


Jesus. Are you all Adam's second cousins or something? NONE of you know him or his true intentions.


Haiku had members hanging by his coattails all the way up until the very last second he vanished, due to months of philanthropic giveaways.

And some of you actually believed a selective 'convo' Adam posted in pure text (not even screenshots).

Oh man. I'm sure there will STILL be some that defend his actions.

B-b-but....GOOD GUY!

I've tried to bite my tongue on a lot of what he's said over the years. I've called him out in his AD NT, Flawless, and Gala hype shill threads. You know, the ones where he relentlessly pushes the cards as the next best thing since sliced bread, then dumps his collection on the market only to let the thread die soon thereafter. But every time he had his defenders.


This video sums things up nicely.





#staywoke

God Bless.

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by buybuymj

About 27guy, I thought PM was PM, this is not an issue about you and me, I don't think it was necessary to disclose "all" messages to defend yourself, that's still OK, I don't care. Since you decided to disclose all messages minus one last message I sent and after that I didn't hear from you, here's a screenshot from my eBay's sent inbox.

Adam, is there a reason you omitted the last message when you posted the conversation between you and buybuy? I'm really trying not to think the worst here, but it seems like that message was pretty unambiguous...

[Wings]

Lol there is a very disingenuous worm in this thread! You bottom feeders can come in and defend him but I know the score!

[ThoseBackPages]

this is how Harold Baines got into the HOF

[KhalDrogo]

27 probably is a decent guy. However, he sold out his integrity to defend his "friend". Hope it was worth it!

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by buybuymj

Well, I don't have much more infos to give, but I will answer on one question I noticed, I think 82/99 BGS 9.5 is legit. And I don't consider all BNC's cards are trimmed or like that.

I think many people got surprised here but this is really nothing new to me. The reason I started colleting database in 2005 was because it was already there, whether it's trimming or faking patches. It was already there. Like you see LBJ's Exquisite RC 44/99 or 63/99 from the first picture, or Exquisite LL 45/75. The only difference from 2005 to 2013 and 2018 is LeBron became bigger and bigger. It's a part of LeBron's another fault, I guess.

It was already there and still the status of hobby has been always good, before BNC entered the hobby it was good, after BNC entered the hobby it's been good, and it will be good. One accident doesn't change the whole thing. Some people could feel sick of this but much more goods than bads in this hobby, let's don't underestimate it.

About 27guy, I thought PM was PM, this is not an issue about you and me, I don't think it was necessary to disclose "all" messages to defend yourself, that's still OK, I don't care. Since you decided to disclose all messages minus one last message I sent and after that I didn't hear from you, here's a screenshot from my eBay's sent inbox. And it says how I look at it.



https://imageshack.com/a/img923/3259/yM0hXT.png


Here's 06:00 AM now and I've been pretty busy with preparing shipments, I hope I didn't pass any question.

this is obviously a passion of yours to follow these lebron cards and keep a private database of pictures. do you have any suspicions of other lebron exquisite rookies that have been trimmed or altered? thank you so much for coming to thread and sharing important information because its obvious were not getting the full story from everyone thats involved that has posted on here. from the first post of this thread, there has been to much info held back and to many half truths.

[arashY]

I’m a small time member and enjoy the passion of 27guy’s posts prior to this thread. It’s kind of sad the way 27guy has been white knighting BNC...but it just makes me wonder why?!

It’s none of my business but were you hoping to stay in his good graces to get leniency in future deals? You’ve stuck your neck out to defend a guy who doesn’t even want to defend himself on here which is just very odd.

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by ebitz

I apologize for the delay in posting anything but to to be honest, up until this point I was not sure what to say or how to address it. While I am going to make my best attempt at fully addressing the actual topic of this thread, I think there is a larger topic to be discussed here that is much bigger than me and much bigger than each one of you individually and that question is what is the forum?

I joined the forum when I first regained a newfound curiosity for the hobby in 2010. I really owe a tremendous amount to forum and all that it has given to me. It has essentially given me my life in many more ways than I can quickly explain. The forum was really a catalyst for me to grow and learn in the hobby when I was first starting out as a part time hobbyist, then to a more serious hobbyist, to the point that it literally took over all of my spare time, and then to be able to do it full time. If you go back and look at my posting history I believe it fully supports this. It’s an amazing story for me and part of my life and one for which I am truly grateful. I have worked extremely hard to get to this point. I have put in countless hours of blood, sweat and tears, and I have made significant life sacrifices in an effort of supporting the hobby and my growth up to this point of doing it full time.

If I go back to 2010 and people like ultimatederon, alabammaslamma and so many others weren’t here to help me along and show me how to do things correctly, to support me and help me learn, my path could have been very very different. I have met some of my best friends in life and some of my biggest supporters to this day through the forum. I love and respect the forum, what it provides all of us, it is an important part of the hobby. I will continue to support it as well as all who use it in any way that I possibly can. I want to it be a positive place that we can all go to discuss what I consider such an amazing hobby that means so much to all of us.

With that said, while the forum is still in good in many ways, I think we have some problems. I think the first thing that would help is if we all accepted that 99% of people in the hobby whether collector or dealer are in the hobby to make money whether short term or long term, and if they are not in it to make money then they aren’t in it to lose money, it is what it is. And it is not a bad thing for people to come in with the goal of purely profiting, and these people are not in any way bad people, most of them are in fact great people. If they come in and make money and then re-invest their initial investment plus their profit it moves us all forward as a hobby, we should support each other making money in the hobby not tear each other down. If 100 new people came into the hobby with $1,000 each and each of them turned $1,000 into $1,500 this is the best thing that could continuously happen for all of us.
The second is that bumping cards is a reality and its part of the hobby. You may not like it, you may not agree with it but the system is set up for all of us to do it and take advantage of it and profit from it. I bump cards whenever I can, and so do the large majority of others, I suggest all of you to at least consider it, if you don’t want to or don’t believe in it that is fine and I support that but don’t try to kill the rest of us for doing it. When you go to a show and you are in front of the BGS booth and you see people taking cards out of RCR holders right in front of the BGS rep working at their table and handing those cards right back to them you quickly realize that right or wrong it's just the reality of the hobby.

My real concern for us as a group is what happens when the next Nat Turner wants to get in to the hobby and stumbles on to the forum and he is wanting to learn and he sees us all trying to rip each other down rather than pushing each other up and he decides this is not something he wants to be a part of, it’s not healthy, and it's not good for any of us in the hobby, and unfortunately it's probably already happened. At this rate it’s inevitably going to happen that the next Nat Turner is going to come to the forum and be like wtf, I’m out.

When someone in the hobby, who I consider a friend before anything else, fifthdown literally spends 250k on 1 card we as a group flame him and our first reaction is doubt, I am saddened. It's guys like him that will eventually propel all of us and the hobby forward. It is my hope and belief that the day is going to come where there are 30 Nat Turners and 30 fifthdowns or maybe a lot more in the hobby and they are in it and loving it like we all do. We as a group need to be ready for this and to welcome them with open arms and be ready to support them when they need it. It is with them that we will all move the hobby forward to a level that none of us can currently imagine.

This is what has happened since 2010, the hobby has gone to a level that I believe the majority of us could never have seen, myself included. It’s not healthy for us as a hobby when so many people are literally scared to post to the forum. If you are being honest with yourself can you blame them? You all have seen numerous people get taken down for much much less, time and time again and then the people who took them down pound their chest and others cheer for them. Granted many times its fully justified, necessary and has been extremely helpful, I’m not denying this. But this thread alone tried to take me down, it tried to take rookies down, it tried to take the27guy down, and it seemingly took devinkurant down for reasons I don’t fully understand at this time. This thread went as far as to say that the27guy and I are the same person, which I can confirm is not true and ridiculous. I absolutely think it's important that we as a group need to look out for each other and protect each other from the evils that exists in the hobby because there are many. I just don’t feel the goal of the forum should be who can we take down next and how can we do it and then cheer once we do it, it didn’t always used to be this way. I’m not sure how or why it has gone to this place, it just seems that this is where it’s at currently and where its been for a while now. And honestly I’m probably not going to do much to change it but if my two best cards now having an asterisk next to them is what it takes to get change started then so be it, I’m willing. Maybe if more of us thought of ourselves just as supporters of the hobby and supporters of other hobbyists both old and new, or just simply hobbyist enjoying what we are doing vs sleuths and detectives this would be a good thing.

I do not consider myself to be a “preachy” person. This is not really my comfort zone but I feel very very strongly above everything I have just stated. Its something I have said to many of you privately and it’s something that needs to be said and needs to be supported by all of us. I believe it to be crucial that we as a group find new ways to improve and grow, we cannot keep going as we have been. I’m sure the first thing some of you will say is that this is an attempt to deflect blame from myself which it is not, but given the course that this thread has taken I think it would be a lost opportunity to walk away from without learning anything.

Now, to the actual topic of the thread and my involvement. While I am not in any way happy about the information that has been uncovered about my 2 LeBron Exquisite cards that are in question at this point there is not much that I can do. I’ve owned them for nearly 5 years now and if I think long and hard I can say with great confidence I do not think I’ve ever made a strong effort to put a price on them or sell them. I stand by the fact, which I stated in a post from 2016, that I bought #74/99 as a BGS 9 from sohrob when I bought our his entire collection in 2014 and I did NOT have any knowledge of its prior history. I bought #87 in the same collection raw and graded it BGS 9 when I received it and I recall it being a clean card and didn’t appear trimmed to me. I graded it promptly and it graded BGS 9. I stand by the fact that I did not trim either of these cards or have any involvement with someone else trimming the cards.

It has always been my goal to hold these cards as long as I possibly could and I think owning them for 5 years supports that. I never had any real intention of selling them and I still do not. If the point comes where I want to sell them all I can say is that I will do my best to handle it as responsibly as possible. I understand the magnitude of these cards and the responsibility I have of owning these. I cannot predict the future, and at this point I cannot imagine selling them so it's hard to know how I may or may not go about it when that time comes. This is all I can really promise for now and hopefully it is found to be reasonable.

In 2014 the LeBron Exquisite was a big card no doubt but its not nearly what it is today and they were traded around quite frequently and moved through hands rapidly because everyone wanted one. I know of cards that had changed hands a large number of times before they settled into a collection. So while I have some notes that I took at the time to support my statements above that is all I really have. Hopefully you all can understand that this deal was a long time ago and it was a rather large deal involving hundreds of cards, likely ones of the largest and most important deals to me personally that I have ever done.

Here is my best attempt to answer as many questions as I can to satisfy as many of you as I possibly can. If I did not answer a question you have other ones please feel free to message me directly through here or my website and I’m happy to put in as much time as is required with as many people as I have to via phone. I will not be coming back and posting more and answering more questions on this thread.

Do I trim cards? No
Do I support trimming cards? No
Do I think it is the black hole of the hobby? Yes
Do I think it's going to go away? Unfortunately no, not anytime soon
Have I ever trimmed cards? No
Do I accept that people trimming cards in the hobby is a reality? Yes
Does it surprise me that trimmed cards have ended up in my collection? No
Should it surprise you if the same has happened to you? No
Do I frequently bump cards? Yes
Will I continue to frequently bump cards? Yes
Am I going to apologize for bumping cards? No
Do I support those who bump cards? Yes
Do I support those who don’t agree with bumping cards? Yes
Is there any corruption between myself and BGS? Absolutely not!
Do I wish that this thread never happened? sort of but no
Why no? It is my hope that it can help us evolve and be a catalyst for positive change
Have I ever completed a successful deal with rookies? No
Was I involved in a 3 way deal that would pay rookies based on the grade? No
Did I ever grade the #74 in a BGS 7.5 or 8 to screw over rookies? No, check the BGS reports, you’ll see there’s no card with those grades from that timeline
Have I ever received a card or cards from rookies? No
Who do I think trimmed the card? I truly don’t know and don’t think it’s fair to guess
Did I think either card was trimmed when I purchased from sohrob? No
Am I happy with rookies after what he has seemingly tried to do to me? No
Will I forgive him? Absolutely
Will I deal with rookies in the near term? Probably not
Do I support rookies place in the hobby? Yes
Am I going to flame rookies and try to take him down? No
Am I going to try to prevent him from getting big cards in the future? No
Have I had a feeling that rookies had it out for me for a long time now? emphatic yes
Has this thing taken a great deal of my time? Yes
Do I wish that it had all come to this? No, but maybe it’s what is necessary
Do I have a camp? Um… no
Have I ever thought I had a “camp” ? No
Do I wish I had a “camp”? Maybe sort of, but I think I’m good for now
Do I think that someone I know threatened Jack? I truly hope that is not the case

I know this won’t satisfy all of you but I hope it provides some clarity. I hope I can deal with many of you in the future and our interactions can be positive. I want to be here to help and support anyone in any way that I can. I hope we can all grow from this and make the hobby better than it was before. I want to sincerely thank all of you who put so much time into this thread.

Eric

just enjoying this gem again. i cant believe that most of the post was calling the forum the bad guys.....

[ninjacookies]

If nothing else, this thread should serve as a golden reminder of WHY corruption has overruled this hobby for decades.


There's an almost invincible layer of trust and protection around certain 'well respected' people. In the same way Eric has been fleecing customers for years, Adam has been doing the same to a lot of the BO community.

Birds of a feather....



I mean, it's not like he's completely stealth with his intentions. He tried his same hype shill method in the Giannis NT thread just a few days ago. 'NT sucks, I honestly think my acetate is a far superior card...it's not even close. Undervalued boys, sell your NT and buy up acetates!'


Oh well. Most likely will still fall upon blind eyes. Been having a good chuckle with another member through pm's this entire time. We'll see how long his staunch supporters will continue to be strung along for the ride.

[ThoseBackPages]

Dirty

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

If nothing else, this thread should serve as a golden reminder of WHY corruption has overruled this hobby for decades.


There's an almost invincible layer of trust and protection around certain 'well respected' people. In the same way Eric has been fleecing customers for years, Adam has been doing the same to a lot of the BO community.

Birds of a feather....



I mean, it's not like he's completely stealth with his intentions. He tried his same hype shill method in the Giannis NT thread just a few days ago. 'NT sucks, I honestly think my acetate is a far superior card...it's not even close. Undervalued boys, sell your NT and buy up acetates!'


Oh well. Most likely will still fall upon blind eyes. Been having a good chuckle with another member through pm's this entire time. We'll see how long his staunch supporters will continue to be strung along for the ride.

Theres also the issue of those guys that trashed anyone who questioned 27Guys integrity and motives. There are several members who took up arms to support him by attacking people who even questioned him. They should be called out as well.

[2010GBPackers]

Still waiting for all the big dealers who set up at all of the prominent card shows (Chicago, Houston, Whiteplains, the National) around the country to post here. I know most of them are members here. *crickets*

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Theres also the issue of those guys that trashed anyone who questioned 27Guys integrity and motives. There are several members who took up arms to support him by attacking people who even questioned him. They should be called out as well.

We disagree on a lot of things, but I've been right there with you on your sentiment in this thread.

Some of those same individuals are also relatively new, which raises an eyebrow.

[ThoseBackPages]

PBMs have been "coming in hot" this year

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

PBMs have been "coming in hot" this year

Been churning out more than Prizm retail this year.


#heyoooo

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Theres also the issue of those guys that trashed anyone who questioned 27Guys integrity and motives. There are several members who took up arms to support him by attacking people who even questioned him. They should be called out as well.

Right!? Like I mentioned in a previous post, none of us really know each other. So just because you think a certain high-profile poster is genuinely nice because of their smooth write-ups and the such, the fact is you have no idea who this person really is; we're all strangers. Lesson: Don't ever stick your neck out for people you don't know.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Been churning out more than Prizm retail this year.


#heyoooo

BOOM! lol

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Right!? Like I mentioned in a previous post, none of us really know each other. So just because you think a certain high-profile poster is genuinely nice because of their smooth write-ups and the such, the fact is you have no idea who this person really is; we're all strangers. Lesson: Don't ever stick your neck out for people you don't know.

D.T.A.!

[PKIPP]

Originally Posted by PKIPP

In with the obligatory Billy Madison reference...

ERIC is a BAD, BAD MAN!!!!!!!


(Kidding)

Ok..

No longer kidding

[theLUCKYshow]

Read Adams replies again. He's clearly confused. He's mixing up cards and referring to posts that dont pertain to what buybuymj is saying. Yes, he shouldn't have been because buybuymj is VERY CLEAR in his messaging but that's my take.

Like Jay Conley said, Adam knows he messed up. Not "I purposely withheld proof damning Eric" kinda messed up. More "it was right there in front of me and I didnt see it" messed up.

Anyone else see it that way or do you think I'm way off.







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