Better sell your Domonic Brown cards now

[7290morint]

Originally Posted by crazy8parlay

Anyone still buying this guys stuff?

5 for 46! Now batting .206

Hopefully Ruben can put a nice package together that includes Brown or Singleton, Blanton (and half his salary), and one of the big 3 low level pitching prospects (May, Cosart, or Colvin), and whatever else needed, so he can get Hunter Pence from Dead Wade in Houston. Might be difficult now being Brown's trade value is disappearing. This trade should've happened a year ago when Werth was leaving and Brown still had value. Would hate to see such a great team lose without a right handed bat behind Howard.

You have to be the only person following baseball who thinks this. I bet if you were to ask any one of the gm's they would trade for this guy in an instant if he were available, but I'm sure that he isn't.

You realize that Ryan Howard really isn't that much better right? Strikes out over 30% of the time, doesn't hit left handing pitching and doesn't play great defense at first base, but I'm sure you already knew that. At least Brown gives you plus defense in the outfield even if he isn't hitting and I'm sure it's not because "people know how to pitch to him".

Edit: Here is an article about how awful Ryan Howard is against left handed pitchers. Since that seems to be one of your biggest arguments against Brown. Just to put things in perspective.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...wards-weakness

"Since 2006, his season BA against LHP has plummeted from .271 to .207. If you keep looking at it continues to get worse. Against LHP he has 371 K's in 1060 PA. The touted sluggers SLG drops to .444 with a .310 OBP."

[crazy8parlay]

Originally Posted by 7290morint

You have to be the only person following baseball who thinks this. I bet if you were to ask any one of the gm's they would trade for this guy in an instant if he were available, but I'm sure that he isn't.

You realize that Ryan Howard really isn't that much better right? Strikes out over 30% of the time, doesn't hit left handing pitching and doesn't play great defense at first base, but I'm sure you already knew that. At least Brown gives you plus defense in the outfield even if he isn't hitting.

I agree Howard is overrated and is one of the biggest whiffers in the game. But he has no trade value and the Phillies would have to include about 40% of his salary in ANY deal involving him. Domonic Brown is not a great outfielder. I don't know what games you've been watching, but he has a hard time tracking line drives. The other night, Shane Victorino stepped in front of him to catch the ball.

[7290morint]

Originally Posted by crazy8parlay

I agree Howard is overrated and is one of the biggest whiffers in the game. But he has no trade value and the Phillies would have to include about 40% of his salary in ANY deal involving him. Domonic Brown is not a great outfielder. I don't know what games you've been watching, but he has a hard time tracking line drives. The other night, Shane Victorino stepped in front of him to catch the ball.

You don't work much with numbers and sample sizes do you? So because Victorino had to step in on one play he's a terrible defender? Since he's had less than 500 major league at bats you are ready to write of Browns career? You are something else. You act like he's Chris Davis at the plate. You've probably written off Matt Weiters too. Don't you have a new topps product to b*tch about?

[warmouth]

IMHO, Brown is overall, a better pick than Heyward or Stanton. The Scouts have touted him for years. They see something. As an all-around player, I believe Brown to be the best of the 2 mentioned, long term that is. Only an opinion.

[crazy8parlay]

Originally Posted by 7290morint

You don't work much with numbers and sample sizes do you? So because Victorino had to step in on one play he's a terrible defender? Since he's had less than 500 major league at bats you are ready to write of Browns career? You are something else. Don't you have a new topps product to b*tch about?

Right now (and for the past 9 months) the numbers tell me he won't amount to much. He can't hit lefties. Right now, he can't hit righties. I started this thread almost 4 months ago, nothing's changed. Seriously, I'm running out of reasons here. He booted a ground ball down the line about a month ago that allowed a guy on first to score. The ball wasn't even going fast. He backed off a linedrive in Worley's first start against the Braves last year which was the only hit Worley gave up in the outing. In his 42 games that he's played, he has 3 errors and only 1 assist. Not good when you have more errors than assists!

[burgbasher]

Originally Posted by crazy8parlay

Right now (and for the past 9 months) the numbers tell me he won't amount to much. He can't hit lefties. Right now, he can't hit righties. I started this thread almost 4 months ago, nothing's changed. Seriously, I'm running out of reasons here. He booted a ground ball down the line about a month ago that allowed a guy on first to score. The ball wasn't even going fast. He backed off a linedrive in Worley's first start against the Braves last year which was the only hit Worley gave up in the outing. In his 42 games that he's played, he has 3 errors and only 1 assist. Not good when you have more errors than assists!

crazy i'll have 2 say you are 1fake azz philly fan.All you do is trash this kid time and time again like your some fake espn analist .

[boxbreaker88]

he mustve punched you in the face or something because you hate him so much

[burgbasher]

Or maybe he had a man crush on Dom and Dom said i don't swing that way .

[hmmdecloth]

I'm still buying Jon or anyone who is selling.

[crazy8parlay]

Originally Posted by burgbasher

Or maybe he had a man crush on Dom and Dom said i don't swing that way .

Poor guy, we're talking baseball and you're thinking about gay things.

[fishacura]

Agree that Brown could be a solid pro and it's too early to say. Also have to defend howard a bit here. The guy is a lifetime .280 40 HR guy who has reached major HR milestones faster than anyone in the game. Yes he strikes out a lot and it drives me nuts. But if you could have a guy who strikes out a lot but gives you .280 and 40 every year, would you take him?

Mike Schmidt is LOVED in this town and at the end of his career Howard is on pace to beat him in HRs and BA. Now Schmidt's defense was unreal and Howard is nowhere close. But Howard's defense has improved every year and he's at least average now. He's also very good at digging balls out of the dirt on errant throws.

Just saying...is he a HOFer...probably not unless he plays for a while and gets that HR number way up there. But the guy gets knocked for all the SOs which are annoying but at the end of the day look at the whole picture....not too many other first basemen in the league I would want over him.

[ReinholdMessner]

The Phillies have tinkered so much with Dom's swing that I think it's foolish to judge him as a hitter right now. There have been at least 3 versions of it in this most recent stint in MLB.
I definitely don't like his tendency to pull off on everything. He hits a crap-ton of ground balls to 2nd base. That said, he was a toolsy guy to begin with.... if you didn't know he was raw, you weren't paying attention. He was never going to be the kind of guy to hit .300 out of the gate. It's pretty amazing he got to the majors as fast as he did, but now he really needs prolonged exposure to MLB pitching.
I also don't share the disdain for his fielding. He does look tentative on his routes at times, but he has a ++ arm to make up for it

[btimm]

Strikeouts for big power hitters are nowhere near as bad as people make them out to be. Guy on first, you prefer Howard strike out or GIDP? I understand the strategy of baseball and that advancing runners is a productive at bat, but I don't think that is always true. I think for a guy whose main attribute is power, the team doesn't need him to try and move the runner. The team needs him to try and rake. And how many strikeouts occur without a man on base anyways? Wouldn't a K therefore be the same exact thing as a fly out? Stop worrying so much about Ks people!!

And it is far too early to tell anything about Brown yet, this is ridiculous.

[burgbasher]

Originally Posted by crazy8parlay

Poor guy, we're talking baseball and you're thinking about gay things.

Well this post was directed at you . And for Brown he's only played how long a month so far 4 hr isn't that horrible .But his avg could be better but he's still a rookie ,and slumping right now to judge him with only a full month of playing time is amatuer .

[burgbasher]

2-2 2bb not to bad of a night.

[crazy8parlay]

Looks like Ruben will be including Domonic Brown in a trade for Hunter Pence!

Better move those Browns now!

[7290morint]

Originally Posted by crazy8parlay

Looks like Ruben will be including Domonic Brown in a trade for Hunter Pence!

Better move those Browns now!

Looks like it's not anywhere close to being a done deal and that Brown is off the table and if they don't have a deal by tomorrow afternoon the Astros are moving on.

mlb trade deadline hunter pence houston astros - MLB News | FOX Sports on MSN

[greenjdo]

Originally Posted by WCTYSON

Calm down. He is a highly ranked prospect, just a kid. If they will just leave him alone and let him swing the way he has had success in the past he will develop quit nicely. Above average speed and a good defender. Offensively as he fills out some more his power will increase and he will learn to be more patient at the plate with experience.

Not a good defender with a reportedly below average work ethic.... Doesn't run out hits and loafs in the outfield..... Season ticket aNd Dom brown jersey owner saying this...send him for pence now

[greenjdo]

Originally Posted by ReinholdMessner

The Phillies have tinkered so much with Dom's swing that I think it's foolish to judge him as a hitter right now. There have been at least 3 versions of it in this most recent stint in MLB.
I definitely don't like his tendency to pull off on everything. He hits a crap-ton of ground balls to 2nd base. That said, he was a toolsy guy to begin with.... if you didn't know he was raw, you weren't paying attention. He was never going to be the kind of guy to hit .300 out of the gate. It's pretty amazing he got to the majors as fast as he did, but now he really needs prolonged exposure to MLB pitching.
I also don't share the disdain for his fielding. He does look tentative on his routes at times, but he has a ++ arm to make up for it

++ arm? I don't buy that

[greenjdo]

Originally Posted by crazy8parlay

I agree Howard is overrated and is one of the biggest whiffers in the game. But he has no trade value and the Phillies would have to include about 40% of his salary in ANY deal involving him. Domonic Brown is not a great outfielder. I don't know what games you've been watching, but he has a hard time tracking line drives. The other night, Shane Victorino stepped in front of him to catch the ball.

How is a guy that is 2nd in the league in RBI overrated? His 1-3 hitters have all been hurt or horribly slumping at one point.... Not to mention the 5 hole production.....this will all change when he goes crazy in Aug-sept and carries the offense again

[7290morint]

Originally Posted by greenjdo

Not a good defender with a reportedly below average work ethic.... Doesn't run out hits and loafs in the outfield..... Season ticket aNd Dom brown jersey owner saying this...send him for pence now

What are you basing this on? Less than a full season of major league baseball? The preferred method of measuring how strong a players defense is ultimate zone rating (UZR) which requires a very large sample size (1+ seasons) and even then is not perfect. Considering he was very raw when drafted out of high school and has developed into a highly ranked prospect by every baseball organization (ESPN, BA, Baseball Intellect, etc...) I'd say he has a pretty solid work ethic. Amazing how much people want to rag on this guy with less than a season of baseball. Most talent evaluators give players a full two seasons before they start to even consider changing their opinions on players. If Brown was no good or the Phillies thought he was going to be no good they would have already unloaded him.

[greenjdo]

Originally Posted by 7290morint

What are you basing this on? Less than a full season of major league baseball? The preferred method of measuring how strong a players defense is ultimate zone rating (UZR) which requires a very large sample size (1+ seasons) and even then is not perfect. Considering he was very raw when drafted out of high school and has developed into a highly ranked prospect by every baseball organization (ESPN, BA, Baseball Intellect, etc...) I'd say he has a pretty solid work ethic. Amazing how much people want to rag on this guy with less than a season of baseball. Most talent evaluators give players a full two seasons before they start to even consider changing their opinions on players. If Brown was no good or the Phillies thought he was going to be no good they would have already unloaded him.

I've watched play in the minors...not a strong arm and take bad routes... I'm good friends with a beat writer this is where he work ethic questioning is from....1 assist this year!

I would take a pence at 27 that has been stuck in A bad lineup than a young Dom brown.... The year before Michael Taylor was traded he was a highly ranked prospect that was untouchable per the phils brass.... Where is Taylor now?

[7290morint]

Originally Posted by greenjdo

I've watched play in the minors...not a strong arm and take bad routes... I'm good friends with a beat writer this is where he work ethic questioning is from....1 assist this year!

I would take a pence at 27 that has been stuck in A bad lineup than a young Dom brown.... The year before Michael Taylor was traded he was a highly ranked prospect that was untouchable per the phils brass.... Where is Taylor now?

Unless you are a trained talent evaluator this means little to nothing. That being said defensive routes were the one thing that evaluators had said he needs to work on. You know how that will happen? By playing everyday. Again, number of assists mean little to nothing with such a small sample size. Seriously, Philadelphia has one of the best records in baseball and is very capable of winning the world series but somehow it's still not enough. Unreal. I also don't ever remember Michael Taylor being that highly ranked ever by any organization. May have been a top 100 guy but never in the top 10 or at the very top like Brown.

[dmott19]

I dont want him for Pence. As an Astros fan, I would not be happy without Vance Worley. And if the Phillies dont want to do that, Id like to see Pence stay put for the rest of the season. Ed Wade cant get fired fast enough. Once again, IMO.

[7290morint]

Originally Posted by dmott19

I dont want him for Pence. As an Astros fan, I would not be happy without Vance Worley. And if the Phillies dont want to do that, Id like to see Pence stay put for the rest of the season. Ed Wade cant get fired fast enough. Once again, IMO.

Why? So you can have another J.A. Happ? I would steer clear of Vance Worley if I was the Astros that is for sure. Everyone knows his value will never be higher than it is right now and there is no way he will sustain the success that he has been having thats why the Phillies have been trying so hard to make him the centerpiece of a deal. I haven't read one piece of scouting that projects him as more than a 5th starter or reliever unless he can develop an actual changeup that is at least average.