GOAT?

[Vols243]

I know the debate has been going on about Jordan and Lebron. But, what about in baseball? I know Trout is young and some things could change, but when does he get the title of GOAT? On pace for the greatest season of all time.

[Nyfancam01]

BONDS is the greatest baseball player of all time.
/thread

[SethMurphy]

Originally Posted by Vols243

I know the debate has been going on about Jordan and Lebron. But, what about in baseball? I know Trout is young and some things could change, but when does he get the title of GOAT? On pace for the greatest season of all time.

Babe Ruth
Hank Aaron
Willie Mays
Barry Bonds
Sandy Koufax
Lou Gehrig
Ted Williams
Mickey Mantle
Joe DiMaggio
and so on


Mike Trout could end up there, but he isn't the GOAT yet.

[Hollywood42]

The problem is trying to compare players to different generations of players. Ruth is a legend and one of the best of all time, if not the best, but general consensus is that he wouldn't succeed in the league today. That goes for pretty much everyone that played in a different era. Is that a negative towards these guys? Some people think so. I'm of the opinion that you can't very well compare a player to guys outside of their era. It just doesn't work very well

[mfw13]

If you're talking GOAT, then it has to be a five-tool player who hit for average & power, has speed, and was top quality as both a fielder and thrower on defense.

So that narrows it down to two players....Willie Mays and Barry Bonds.

And because character does matter when you are talking about GOAT, my choice would be Willie Mays.

[Cubsfanp]

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

The problem is trying to compare players to different generations of players. Ruth is a legend and one of the best of all time, if not the best, but general consensus is that he wouldn't succeed in the league today. That goes for pretty much everyone that played in a different era. Is that a negative towards these guys? Some people think so. I'm of the opinion that you can't very well compare a player to guys outside of their era. It just doesn't work very well

A lot of truth in this. Ruth is the main name everyone thinks of when you say baseball, but i like to think of it in eras.

IMO:
Babe Ruth was the greatest of his era.
Willie Mays was the greatest of his era (sorry Mantle).
Hank Aaron was the greatest of his era.
Bonds was the greatest of his era (PEDs or not) (Sorry Griffey).


If i think of current post-steroid era players, it has not be Pujols, then Miggy. Trout is definitely on track to be up there though.

[spuds1961]

If going by era it would have to be Ohtani, to pitch and hit in today's game is truly amazing.

[jeff24k]

Originally Posted by spuds1961

If going by era it would have to be Ohtani, to pitch and hit in today's game is truly amazing.

LOL. Guess you missed the OF ALL TIME part.

[spuds1961]

Originally Posted by jeff24k

LOL. Guess you missed the OF ALL TIME part.

Reading is fundamental, what part of this era did you not understand.

[dasiegel]

Originally Posted by spuds1961

If going by era it would have to be Ohtani, to pitch and hit in today's game is truly amazing.

I agree Ohtani is the greatest of all time and prices match so I must be correct

[hxcmilkshake]

I say Willie or Ruth. Babe not a traditional 5 tool but he pitched at a high level....

Originally Posted by mfw13

If you're talking GOAT, then it has to be a five-tool player who hit for average & power, has speed, and was top quality as both a fielder and thrower on defense.

So that narrows it down to two players....Willie Mays and Barry Bonds.

And because character does matter when you are talking about GOAT, my choice would be Willie Mays.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

[Dalberov]

Babe Ruth so thoroughly dominated his era that he should be considered the greatest of all time. The others on the lists were great players and would have probably out played Ruth in their own eras but Ruth was hitting more home runs than entire teams in his.

[mouschi]

Baseball is so complicated. There is hitting, hitting for power, pitching, defense, all of the intangibles, roiders, clean guys, WILDLY different eras, etc.

The seasons are so long, and careers can last for 20+ years at 160+ games each year. Some guy might put up ridiculous numbers for 3 years, and then be DFA'ed shortly thereafter.

So to be honest, I don't think we can really truly crown a GOAT in baseball. The best we can probably do is base it off of era, and even then, we may have to branch it out further by pitching vs. hitting vs. what kind of hitting, etc.

The most impressive season for a single player for me anyway, has got to be Barry Bonds in 2001. I thought that was amazing.

[speedyjg13]

Originally Posted by Nyfancam01

BONDS is the greatest baseball player of all time.
/thread

This........

[WSCards5]

I would say by the end of his carreer trout but during his prime Pujols was definitely great and even though he has declined some will go down as one of the top 5 hitters of all time

[WillBBC]

Originally Posted by mouschi

Baseball is so complicated. There is hitting, hitting for power, pitching, defense, all of the intangibles, roiders, clean guys, WILDLY different eras, etc.

The seasons are so long, and careers can last for 20+ years at 160+ games each year. Some guy might put up ridiculous numbers for 3 years, and then be DFA'ed shortly thereafter.

So to be honest, I don't think we can really truly crown a GOAT in baseball. The best we can probably do is base it off of era, and even then, we may have to branch it out further by pitching vs. hitting vs. what kind of hitting, etc.

The most impressive season for a single player for me anyway, has got to be Barry Bonds in 2001. I thought that was amazing.

I agree with this completely. Tony Gwynn is one of the greatest pure hitters ever but he's never even mentioned when it comes to any of the all-time-great conversations. Baseball is so weird.

[SethMurphy]

Baseball definitely needs to be separated into offensive and pitching categories. Since players never cross over (Ruth/Ohtani aside) like they do in basketball you have to separate hitters from pitchers.

Sandy Koufax' career 162 game averages - 38 G, 30 GS, 16-8 record, 2.76 ERA, 229 K, 78 BB, 222 IP

4 yr average (1962-66), 3 Cy Youngs, 1 MVP, 24-7, 1.86 ERA, 38 GS, 307 K, 65 BB, 22 CG, 8 SHO


That's my GOAT from the pitching mound

[Doctor Claw]

Originally Posted by mouschi

Baseball is so complicated. There is hitting, hitting for power, pitching, defense, all of the intangibles, roiders, clean guys, WILDLY different eras, etc.

The seasons are so long, and careers can last for 20+ years at 160+ games each year. Some guy might put up ridiculous numbers for 3 years, and then be DFA'ed shortly thereafter.

So to be honest, I don't think we can really truly crown a GOAT in baseball. The best we can probably do is base it off of era, and even then, we may have to branch it out further by pitching vs. hitting vs. what kind of hitting, etc.

Good to see this kind of rational post on the interwebs Impossible to quantify a GOAT in baseball. Far too many variables and so much subjectivity involved; different eras, peak performance versus longevity, etc. There certainly can be a tier or group of the top performers, for hitters and pitchers— and there are many deserving names from the 1880s til today. Part of what makes baseball so special is the depth and breadth of its rich history, which defies any reductive analysis.

Given the sample space, I don't see how it could be Ohtani for this era. An era is something of an abstract term, yet most would agree it spans years, not a quarter of one season. To be pitching and hitting is certainly evidence of rare talent— yet I think he has to maintain excellence in both dimensions over several seasons before he can be talked about as "Greatest" of his era.

In terms of dominating his era, Ruth. Especially when one considers he pitched at such a high level, replete with a World Series consecutive scoreless innings record.

[ThoseBackPages]

Babe Ruth

[CoolG]

Originally Posted by Vols243

I know the debate has been going on about Jordan and Lebron. But, what about in baseball? I know Trout is young and some things could change, but when does he get the title of GOAT? On pace for the greatest season of all time.

No debate Jordan is the GOAT

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by CoolG

No debate Jordan is the GOAT

100% truth

[Dielon]

Bip Roberts?

[patchgenie]

i think mookie betts will be better than trout and will have more rings. trout won't have one.

[Cubsfanp]

Originally Posted by patchgenie

i think mookie betts will be better than trout and will have more rings. trout won't have one.

Winning a championship is so much more critical to have a complete team with baseball.

Im not sure rings should be as heavily weighted as other sports. Don't get me wrong, they matter...I just don't think of ring count when considering GOAT for baseball.

[jmscoggin]

I don't even know how this is open for debate. Babe Ruth probably would have been a HOF'er as a pitcher had he not stopped but no, he instead became one of if not THE best hitters of all time. No one else is even close in my opinion. I love Williams, Mays, Mantle, Musial etc but they're no Babe.