MLB Heading To A Lockout

[fulltritty]

Originally Posted by erock28

Playing devils advocate, the person capable of being on a Major League roster possesses a skill set that 99.9999% of Americans do not have. Not saying I agree with the player's logic/position, but we're not talking about being a cashier...

Yes but that skill set is not needed for a productive society to remain productive.

It comes back to the old argument that we pay CEOs, sports owners, sports players, and actors/actresses insane amounts of money for non-critical jobs and pay our teachers, fireman, EMTs, police, and military next to nothing when one can say they are a million times more valuable to society than the first group.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

Yes but that skill set is not needed for a productive society to remain productive.

It comes back to the old argument that we pay CEOs, sports owners, sports players, and actors/actresses insane amounts of money for non-critical jobs and pay our teachers, fireman, EMTs, police, and military next to nothing when one can say they are a million times more valuable to society than the first group.

It’s because we, the fans, finally support the athletes/actors/etc making that kind of money. They make that money because what they do generates revenue. Do you think the owners, who are mostly pretty good at business, would pay the athletes more than they could afford to? If they did, the owners would all go bankrupt. Actors can make $10M+ a movie when those films gross $500M at the box office. Where’s that money coming from? Us. I would love to see teachers make more money, but if we’re being honest, it’s harder to consistently throw a 93 MPH strike than teach 3rd grade. Teachers, firemen, EMTs, police, and military do not generate revenue unfortunately.

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by erock28

Playing devils advocate, the person capable of being on a Major League roster possesses a skill set that 99.9999% of Americans do not have. Not saying I agree with the player's logic/position, but we're not talking about being a cashier...

Agreed. And I'll add this. MLB players have millions of people pay real money to watch them work. Think about that. Does anyone here fall into this category? Didn't think so. MLB owners don't produce anything. Their product is solely reliant on their source of labor. The players are solely reliant on us watching them. And you know damn well that ain't changing anytime soon.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Agreed. And I'll add this. MLB players have millions of people pay real money to watch them work. Think about that. Does anyone here fall into this category? Didn't think so. MLB owners don't produce anything. Their product is solely reliant on their source of labor. The players are solely reliant on us watching them. And you know damn well that ain't changing anytime soon.

Good luck doing the things you're describing without team owners.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Agreed. And I'll add this. MLB players have millions of people pay real money to watch them work. Think about that. Does anyone here fall into this category? Didn't think so. MLB owners don't produce anything. Their product is solely reliant on their source of labor. The players are solely reliant on us watching them. And you know damn well that ain't changing anytime soon.

I mostly agree with this, but the owners do provide the venues fro them to play in and are the ones making the business deals to allow the player to generate that revenue. So it’s not like the owners bring nothing to the table, but I get your general point.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Agreed. And I'll add this. MLB players have millions of people pay real money to watch them work. Think about that. Does anyone here fall into this category? Didn't think so. MLB owners don't produce anything. Their product is solely reliant on their source of labor. The players are solely reliant on us watching them. And you know damn well that ain't changing anytime soon.

This is like saying Apple doesn’t do anything to deserve a cut of what app developers make through iOS.

If the players don’t think the owners do anything, they can go start their own league. I’m sure it will work out well for them.

[Silent George]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

I mostly agree with this, but the owners do provide the venues fro them to play in and are the ones making the business deals to allow the player to generate that revenue. So it’s not like the owners bring nothing to the table, but I get your general point.

Of course you as a Marlins fan know that Miami Dade County owns the stadium. The tax payers paid for 3/4 of the stadium under the agreement that they’d get some profit back when Loria sold the team.

Loria bought the team for 158 million
The Tax payers paid around 500 million for the stadium
Loria sold the team for 1.2 billion.
The taxpayers were supposed to get 5% of profits.
They got about 5.5 million dollars. And they had to sue him to get that much.

Nice payday for Loria running down the 2nd poorest team in baseball.

But, you know, Scherzer got that record deal. Those greedy players.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by Silent George

Of course you as a Marlins fan know that Miami Dade County owns the stadium. The tax payers paid for 3/4 of the stadium under the agreement that they’d get some profit back when Loria sold the team.

Loria bought the team for 158 million
The Tax payers paid around 500 million for the stadium
Loria sold the team for 1.2 billion.
The taxpayers were supposed to get 5% of profits.
They got about 5.5 million dollars. And they had to sue him to get that much.

Nice payday for Loria running down the 2nd poorest team in baseball.

But, you know, Scherzer got that record deal. Those greedy players.

Yikes! How did Loria avoid being responsible for the full 5%? Or was $5.5MM 5% of the net gain to Loria?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[crownand]

All I know is we better be playing in 2022 or it'll it mess up my rookie card prices!

[mfw13]

Are the players really this bad at money management????

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/12/10/pl...during-lockout

Fulmer has career earnings of over $9 million....if he has to work as a plumber, it's not because MLB hasn't paid him enough.

Chavez has career earnings of over $22 million.....why does his wife have to work as a longshorewoman?

Really bad reporting from SI not to ask these questions....

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by MiamiMarlinsFan

I mostly agree with this, but the owners do provide the venues fro them to play in and are the ones making the business deals to allow the player to generate that revenue. So it’s not like the owners bring nothing to the table, but I get your general point.

[2010GBPackers]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

This is like saying Apple doesn’t do anything to deserve a cut of what app developers make through iOS.

If the players don’t think the owners do anything, they can go start their own league. I’m sure it will work out well for them.

Apple makes a tangible product.

[inaka]

Originally Posted by 2010GBPackers

Agreed. And I'll add this. MLB players have millions of people pay real money to watch them work. Think about that. Does anyone here fall into this category? Didn't think so. MLB owners don't produce anything. Their product is solely reliant on their source of labor. The players are solely reliant on us watching them. And you know damn well that ain't changing anytime soon.

I disagree, it's quite the opposite. Millions of people pay to watch their team.

When Roger Clemens was traded from the Red Sox to the Yankees, did Red Sox fans suddenly root for him to beat their team when he pitched for the Yankees against the Red Sox? Of course not.

It's like the Seinfeld bit that we're all really just rooting for the uniforms, and not the players inside.

[RaceDog]

If I am not mistaken, Fulmer enjoys plumbing and does it because he wants to…not that he needs to. At least that’s what I heard on a Tigers broadcast a few years ago.

[clocsta2323]

Fulmer has been quoted as saying he just derives a unique joy from plumbing.

[Silent George]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Are the players really this bad at money management????

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/12/10/pl...during-lockout

Fulmer has career earnings of over $9 million....if he has to work as a plumber, it's not because MLB hasn't paid him enough.

Chavez has career earnings of over $22 million.....why does his wife have to work as a longshorewoman?

Really bad reporting from SI not to ask these questions....

Are some players bad with money? Is that the question? Are males in their 20s perhaps not so great with personal finances?

Of course?

Are we asking if a young adult male drafted out of high school and spent 5 years in the minors and it raising a family and got all of his money at times with the highest tax brackets, and has agent fees, and a bunch of other expenses that come from being a professional athlete that can't eat off the dollar menu might not be all that good with their finances, and have a bunch of money squirreled away?

70% of lotto winners go broke within 7 years.

So yeah, I'm sure there are many who have made a lot more than him who have ended up completely broke, with decades of life left, a family to raise, and a high school diploma with no work experience to get them through, and are 100% clueless as to where they went wrong when they were just living the life they saw everyone else living around them.

[anusinha]

Originally Posted by Silent George

Are some players bad with money? Is that the question? Are males in their 20s perhaps not so great with personal finances?

Of course?

Are we asking if a young adult male drafted out of high school and spent 5 years in the minors and it raising a family and got all of his money at times with the highest tax brackets, and has agent fees, and a bunch of other expenses that come from being a professional athlete that can't eat off the dollar menu might not be all that good with their finances, and have a bunch of money squirreled away?

70% of lotto winners go broke within 7 years.

So yeah, I'm sure there are many who have made a lot more than him who have ended up completely broke, with decades of life left, a family to raise, and a high school diploma with no work experience to get them through, and are 100% clueless as to where they went wrong when they were just living the life they saw everyone else living around them.

Not the fans or owners problem if the players are bad at managing money.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Are the players really this bad at money management????

https://www.si.com/mlb/2021/12/10/pl...during-lockout

Fulmer has career earnings of over $9 million....if he has to work as a plumber, it's not because MLB hasn't paid him enough.

Chavez has career earnings of over $22 million.....why does his wife have to work as a longshorewoman?

Really bad reporting from SI not to ask these questions....

Thanks for the link. The Chavez note is a headscracher -- he's been in the league for 14 years.

I think it would be good for lower paid players to have their voices heard. People usually only focus on the big deals that stars get.

Teams are increasingly relying on relatively low paid players to win games. The high-priced stars are the small minority.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by Silent George

Are some players bad with money? Is that the question? Are males in their 20s perhaps not so great with personal finances?

Of course?

Are we asking if a young adult male drafted out of high school and spent 5 years in the minors and it raising a family and got all of his money at times with the highest tax brackets, and has agent fees, and a bunch of other expenses that come from being a professional athlete that can't eat off the dollar menu might not be all that good with their finances, and have a bunch of money squirreled away?

70% of lotto winners go broke within 7 years.

So yeah, I'm sure there are many who have made a lot more than him who have ended up completely broke, with decades of life left, a family to raise, and a high school diploma with no work experience to get them through, and are 100% clueless as to where they went wrong when they were just living the life they saw everyone else living around them.

No doubt....the main reason I linked the article was to bring attention to the shoddy journalism. The author should have talked to some players with <3 years of service time to illustrate her point, not a couple of players who have been around a while and are multimillionaires.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

This is like saying Apple doesn’t do anything to deserve a cut of what app developers make through iOS.

If the players don’t think the owners do anything, they can go start their own league. I’m sure it will work out well for them.

They already tried that and it lasted one season.

[rwperu34]

Originally Posted by fulltritty

Yes but that skill set is not needed for a productive society to remain productive.

It comes back to the old argument that we pay CEOs, sports owners, sports players, and actors/actresses insane amounts of money for non-critical jobs and pay our teachers, fireman, EMTs, police, and military next to nothing when one can say they are a million times more valuable to society than the first group.

Do we though? Think about how many more teachers there are the MLB players. The average is much higher for MLB, sure. But I would imagine that we spend many multiples more on teachers in the aggregate.

[pewe]

Originally Posted by rwperu34

Do we though? Think about how many more teachers there are the MLB players. The average is much higher for MLB, sure. But I would imagine that we spend many multiples more on teachers in the aggregate.

There are ~3.6MM k-12 school teachers in the US. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ls-since-1955/

Average salary is about $50k. https://www.payscale.com/research/US...eachers/Salary

= $180B

Most of these also have pension plans that I’m guessing are probably worth, in PV, something like 10-25% of their current salary. So you can probably float that number up a good bit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Silent George]

Originally Posted by pewe

There are ~3.6MM k-12 school teachers in the US. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ls-since-1955/

Average salary is about $50k. https://www.payscale.com/research/US...eachers/Salary

= $180B

Most of these also have pension plans that I’m guessing are probably worth, in PV, something like 10-25% of their current salary. So you can probably float that number up a good bit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And that's k-12 - you can use an expansive definition of teacher for a lot of things. Pre-school? Specialty schools? Private schools? adult educations? universities? principals and administrators? etc.

The current budget for the department of education is 73.5 billion dollars a year. That's just federal.

I don't want to go down the road of bashing teachers. a Good teacher is extremely invaluable. Far more than they could ever be paid. They also know that going in. In public schools it's a union role - you know what your pay scale is going in, and you sign up to do it.

And at the lowest levels - and I say this will all due respect to good, and even mediocre teachers - any idiot can be a teacher. I know so many it makes me cringe. Supply and demand is a real thing. If being a heart surgeon wasn't actually difficult, they'd be making $35K a year.

Being a good teacher brings value beyond what you could ever actually be paid.

But being qualified to BE a teacher is rather low level.

And being a crappy teacher means you're overpaid no matter what your pay is. There's a lot of good reasons there is a public school attendance purge going on.

(And as Norm will tell you, a son of two teachers, you get the same vacation as a kid)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAg9M-O9wGo

[rwperu34]

MLB and the players have confirmed that they won't be talking about core economic issues until January. They set a soft deadline of February 1 to avoid interruptions to spring training. If I had to guess I'd say the real deadline is about February 20, if not February 25.

[Stech36]

Originally Posted by rwperu34

MLB and the players have confirmed that they won't be talking about core economic issues until January. They set a soft deadline of February 1 to avoid interruptions to spring training. If I had to guess I'd say the real deadline is about February 20, if not February 25.

They could at least be brainstorming right now…

I get that nobody likes to work between Thanksgiving and New Years, but come on.