Is it ok to give a sketch artist feedback if something looks off?

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by Faulkenburg

I disagree. This artist did solid work. They put forth significant effort. Granted, the noses are off but that didn't call for public shaming. The noses aren't even"bad", certainly not worth all this. The original question was if it would have been out of line to mention this to the artist privately. The members on this board crossed that line ages ago.

I still say there is nothing wrong with constructive feedback in a private manner.

Now, when it comes to 30 second crap sketches in a $150 box....go at it, but give the publisher just as much (if not more) flack for it.

Again art varies per person, I am not saying effort was not put forth.

I can walk into the National Gallery tomorrow and look at a photograph and say it is hideous and the artist did a poor job, you can be beside me and show me where you think my opinion is wrong. Guess what? We both are right.

[Spider-Fan]

It's the Internet. Criticize who you want, how you want, and be prepared for the fallout.

Remember before the Internet?

[darth*winbid*]

I wouldn't say anything, art is subjective. There is no "right" or "wrong". What you may perceive as a flaw or inaccuracy, in reality may just be their style. If you like it, buy it, if not, don't buy it. Especially if you're not even an artist yourself in the same field. I don't work construction, know nothing about it, so I'm not going to walk down to a construction site and tell them I think they're doing it wrong.

Slightly different, but I write and record my own music. I already know what flaws I have, and my style evolves because of the self-awareness, which I feel most true artists have in abundance. If someone (who doesn't even play music) ever tried to inform me of a way to "improve" any of my songs, I would consider that person to be an entitled, self-absorbed moron who thinks they are an expert in every field. You either like the art in question, or you do not.

The Seinfeld clip about the heckler comes to mind here.

[Faulkenburg]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Again art varies per person, I am not saying effort was not put forth.

I can walk into the National Gallery tomorrow and look at a photograph and say it is hideous and the artist did a poor job, you can be beside me and show me where you think my opinion is wrong. Guess what? We both are right.

You are absolutely correct, you CAN. The question posed here is if we should. It is my opinion that when someone puts forth true effort, confidential feedback is acceptable while public shaming is not.

I don't really have anything further to say on the matter.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by Faulkenburg

You are absolutely correct, you CAN. The question posed here is if we should. It is my opinion that when someone puts forth true effort, confidential feedback is acceptable while public shaming is not.

I don't really have anything further to say on the matter.

Yes you should as it creates intelligent dialogue about the subject.

This is not public shaming at all.

[cypher]

Originally Posted by Faulkenburg

Now, when it comes to 30 second crap sketches in a $150 box....go at it, but give the publisher just as much (if not more) flack for it.

This is a good point. An artist might submit a rough sketch due to time constraints or laziness but it's ultimately up to Topps/Upper Deck to reject some of the bad sketches.

[kerg]

No matter what the subject (art, driving, cooking, fashion, you name it...), I find that unsolicited feedback can frequently not end well regardless of the well meaning intentions.

[VinnyH]

I've wondered the same thing as the OP. Frankly some sketches are way off facially and I would stay away from those artists. If I did like the style, it might be helpful to offer polite constructive criticism.

It may be that I am very visual and a former pro photographer. Through the years I have learned from someone pointing out things in my photos, lighting is a big subject in photos, angles and composition also. I have appreciated the help.

It is all subjective so there's no right or wrong. There are feelings and personalities involved so no answer is easy.

imho,
Vinny

[A Levine]

Originally Posted by FAKadar

Unless you're an art director or a client, you don't give unwanted feedback to an artist. If you continue to do it and publicly, you're just being a dick.

Publicly, yes; I don't think it was appropriate for OP to post those examples on the first page...

...but just because one is not an artist does not mean they cannot give constructive feedback if they see something they don't like. Art is for an audience after all, and the audience doesn't have to be capable of doing it themselves to be able to say "that's not good. that needs improvement, here here and here."

I think the key here is being polite, constructive, and respectful. "The eyes on that guy suck" is a lot diffferent than saying, "do you think the eyes might be a little too far apart?" If an artist cannot handle a little constructive, respectful criticism-- no matter who it's from-- he's a bit too sensitive if you ask me.

Certainly a non-artist's opinion should be taken for what it's worth to the artist, but not summarily dismissed, nor is it inherently rude.

A fresh set of eyes, whether professional or not, can sometimes bring a new and needed perspective.

[Spider-Fan]

Originally Posted by A Levine

Publicly, yes; I don't think it was appropriate for OP to post those examples on the first page...

...but just because one is not an artist does not mean they cannot give constructive feedback if they see something they don't like. Art is for an audience after all, and the audience doesn't have to be capable of doing it themselves to be able to say "that's not good. that needs improvement, here here and here."

I think the key here is being polite, constructive, and respectful. "The eyes on that guy suck" is a lot diffferent than saying, "do you think the eyes might be a little too far apart?" If an artist cannot handle a little constructive, respectful criticism-- no matter who it's from-- he's a bit too sensitive if you ask me.

Certainly a non-artist's opinion should be taken for what it's worth to the artist, but not summarily dismissed, nor is it inherently rude.

A fresh set of eyes, whether professional or not, can sometimes bring a new and needed perspective.

Sadly, most (not all) people do not take non-positive feedback well. I hate managing people.

[darth*winbid*]

Originally Posted by A Levine

Publicly, yes; I don't think it was appropriate for OP to post those examples on the first page...

...but just because one is not an artist does not mean they cannot give constructive feedback if they see something they don't like. Art is for an audience after all, and the audience doesn't have to be capable of doing it themselves to be able to say "that's not good. that needs improvement, here here and here."

I think the key here is being polite, constructive, and respectful. "The eyes on that guy suck" is a lot diffferent than saying, "do you think the eyes might be a little too far apart?" If an artist cannot handle a little constructive, respectful criticism-- no matter who it's from-- he's a bit too sensitive if you ask me.

Certainly a non-artist's opinion should be taken for what it's worth to the artist, but not summarily dismissed, nor is it inherently rude.

A fresh set of eyes, whether professional or not, can sometimes bring a new and needed perspective.

This is where the great divide exists. Artists do not make "art" FOR other people. They do it for themselves, with the understanding that not all will embrace it, though some will.

If I made art for other people, I would never win, I would not be an artist, I would be a prostitute.

Say I take your feedback into consideration, and apply it. Then someone else says to do the opposite. Who is correct? Art is not intended to be universal to everyone. Nothing is. There is no right or wrong. So if an artist is not doing something in the way they see fit by their own mind's interpretation, then what are they?

[TheLastDude]

Frank may have been a bit brusque in his posts, but his message is spot on...and here's the reason why:

Unless you're an artist, you'll never know how much an artist beats him or herself up over every little detail of a piece once it has been completed.

So yes, hearing from people who will proudly declare that they "can't draw a stick figure" why your art isn't "perfect" makes you want to rip your face off and tear it into little pieces of face confetti.

Sketch card collectors are by and large a spoiled lot who have forgotten that once upon a time, sketch cards were just that...pencil sketches.

So when a card isn't a piece of art that they can flip for big bucks, they want to tear it down. Why do you think so many artists move on from sketch cards as quickly as they can? It's just not worth the peanuts you get paid to bust your ass to do the work.

So when do we get to the part where we bash Mike Mignola, Tim Sale, Art Baltazar, and Katie Cook for their work? After all it's not on scale, right?

[A Levine]

Originally Posted by darth*winbid*

This is where the great divide exists. Artists do not make "art" FOR other people. They do it for themselves, with the understanding that not all will embrace it, thought some will.

If I made art for other people, I would never win, I would not be an artist, I would be a prostitute.

Say I take your feedback into consideration, and apply it. Then someone else says to do the opposite. Who is correct? Art is not intended to be universal to everyone. Nothing is. There is no right or wrong. So if an artist is not doing something in the way they see fit by their own mind's interpretation, then what are they?

Art has historically-- and still is-- created to be appreciated by others. If you want to do it for yourself, and never show anyone, that's fine. I do it all the time.

But once you show it to someone, particularly as an artist on sketch cards who do it for card companies to be put into a product that will be sold to collectors, there is nothing wrong with someone offering respectful constructive criticism.

I am frankly flabbergasted that people would have a problem with that. That is all. I shall say no more on the subject.

[dukestr89]

Originally Posted by Vargaman

For context, here's the one I saw, which I think you can guess what sticks out about it, my coworkers who love star wars too saw the same thing, minor but evident on each one.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

I'm looking at this and there is no doubt that the artist put a lot of time and effort into these sketches. I just dont see the problem with their noses. I'd love to have this as part of my collection.

[darth*winbid*]

Originally Posted by A Levine

Art has historically-- and still is-- created to be appreciated by others. If you want to do it for yourself, and never show anyone, that's fine. I do it all the time.

But once you show it to someone, particularly as an artist on sketch cards who do it for card companies to be put into a product that will be sold to collectors, there is nothing wrong with someone offering respectful constructive criticism.

I am frankly flabbergasted that people would have a problem with that. That is all. I shall say no more on the subject.

I understand your angle, but at the end of the day, my point is valid. If Topps says to me, "we want you to draw this", then I am not an artist, I am providing a service in the same way that someone comes to the register and orders a hamburger from me, and I ring them up and provide it for them.

It is possible to create art for yourself, art that you yourself are happy with, and present it to the world. Their reaction is irrelevant, you create art, and present it, and that's it. You are an artist. I didn't mean to imply that "for yourself" means "keeping it to yourself". It does not.

Again, I'm not a sketcher/drawer type, I only write songs. But I do it for myself, and then throw it out there for all. Reactions will never be all positive or all negative, regardless of the art medium. I just can't fathom the idea of listening to people tell me "how" to write a song, or draw a picture, or paint a painting. That is silly and demoralizing to the spirit.

I also understand OP has well-meaning intentions, but it is like telling someone, I don't like your pants. Or wanting a safe space from other people's art. Buy it or don't. No consumer of it is 100% right or wrong, and I will continue making it as long as it pleases me, and I am happy with my work.

I think (most) everyone here is partially in the right. It's all interpretive, so there is no universal answer. "You do you" is probably the best response IMO. Because I certainly would not listen to anyone not close to me personally questioning something I'm doing, be it art, driving, mowing my lawn, etc etc.

[darth*winbid*]

Originally Posted by dukestr89

I'm looking at this and there is no doubt that the artist put a lot of time and effort into these sketches. I just dont see the problem with their noses. I'd love to have this as part of my collection.

My point exactly. No right, no wrong. I think they're freaking great sketches, and I personally see no flaws.

[Spider-Fan]

Originally Posted by darth*winbid*

I understand your angle, but at the end of the day, my point is valid. If Topps says to me, "we want you to draw this", then I am not an artist, I am providing a service in the same way that someone comes to the register and orders a hamburger from me, and I ring them up and provide it for them.

It is possible to create art for yourself, art that you yourself are happy with, and present it to the world. Their reaction is irrelevant, you do art, and present it, and that's it. You are an artist. I didn't mean to imply that "for yourself" means "keeping it to yourself". It does not.

Again, I'm not a sketcher/drawer type, I only write songs. But I do it for myself, and then throw it out there for all. Reactions will never be all positive or all negative, regardless of the art medium. I just can't fathom the idea of listening to people tell me "how" to write a song, or draw a picture, or paint a painting. That is silly and demoralizing to the spirit.

I also understand OP has well-meaning intentions, but it is like telling someone, I don't like your pants. Or wanting a safe space from other people's art. Buy it or don't. No consumer of it is 100% right or wrong, and I will continue making it as long as it pleases me, and I am happy with my work.

I think (most) everyone here is partially in the right. It's all interpretive, so there is no universal answer. "You do you" is probably the best response IMO. Because I certainly would not listen to anyone not close to me personally questioning something I'm doing, be it art, driving, mowing my lawn, etc etc.

I'm not sure I understand you're POV on this subject, as it seems to me that sketch cards fit into that first bucket in which the artist is "providing a service" to the company that solicited them to create the sketch cards, and therefore are not artists?

[darth*winbid*]

Originally Posted by Spider-Fan

I'm not sure I understand you're POV on this subject, as it seems to me that sketch cards fit into that first bucket in which the artist is "providing a service" to the company that solicited them to create the sketch cards, and therefore are not artists?

If someone is telling me exactly how to draw something, I don't consider myself an "artist". Be it song/sketch/painting. I may be providing a "talent", but that is a service, not an art. It takes "talent" to do literally anything exceptionally, what makes an artist is original vision, not compliance. I don't mean if Topps says, "we want Greedo". That is an acceptable request. Saying "the eyes or noses should be..." is not acceptable IMO. I sketch Greedo, you either approve or pass (as Topps). I will not start drawing in a way that someone else thinks I should. If I did that, I would not be an artist, but merely a person with subjective "talent". Artists have vision and ideas....they do not paint-by-numbers on demand.

[darth*winbid*]

I mean, for example, I don't sing like Eddie Vedder. I can't. Should I because someone says "that's what we're looking for"? No. They either like what I submit, or they don't. If I don't sing/draw in the way they want, it doesn't mean I'm flawed. It means there is no right/wrong in art, and it's just not what they were looking for. Be it Topps or the people who view the Topps approved sketch cards.

[webjon]

Originally Posted by darth*winbid*

If someone is telling me exactly how to draw something, I don't consider myself an "artist".

It's more like someone saying -- "I'd like your music more if there were more cowbell". . . Than anyone telling anyone exactly how to do anything. . .

I think the correct response to the original question was -- it depends on the artist. I've had great conversations with friends who are artists regarding how to get their work to appeal to a wider audience. . . Other artists aren't interested in that.

[darth*winbid*]

Originally Posted by webjon

It's more like someone saying -- "I'd like your music more if there were more cowbell". . . Than anyone telling anyone exactly how to do anything. . .

I think the correct response to the original question was -- it depends on the artist. I've had great conversations with friends who are artists regarding how to get their work to appeal to a wider audience. . . Other artists aren't interested in that.

Who TF wants more cowbell? haha

[darth*winbid*]

I kid, I get what you're saying.

[Cujobyte]

Originally Posted by Cavaliercards

Yes you should as it creates intelligent dialogue about the subject.

This is not public shaming at all.

"Intelligent dialogue" ??? From these boards and you?? lol

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by Cujobyte

"Intelligent dialogue" ??? From these boards and you?? lol

Yes, but you fail to see that.

[Super J]

Originally Posted by 6102stuff

here's a photoshop fix for the nose & lips... perhaps sending leia back to the artist and ask if it's possible to touch up... AND DON'T FORGET to offer extra payment... it will be a win win

Nice job. I like the one on the right