Luis Gonzalez: cheat?

[oldgoldy97]

Did Luis Gonzalez do steroids?

[dbackschamp2001]

Idk probably

[hermanotarjeta]

His cards sell like he did.

[Triple B]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

His cards sell like he did.

His chewed gum sold like he didn't...he did, though.

https://venomstrikes.com/2016/04/19/...nzalez-gum-10/

[JustinVerlander07]

The posters of this fine forum tell me Barry Bonds went from hitting 40 to 70 because of steroids, so I don't know how these same posters are saying a guy who was a 15-20 homer guy going to almost 60 didn't do it from steroids.

[Noles939913]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

The posters of this fine forum tell me Barry Bonds went from hitting 40 to 70 because of steroids, so I don't know how these same posters are saying a guy who was a 15-20 homer guy going to almost 60 didn't do it from steroids.

So he only did them for one year? Because he was back down to 28 the next year.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by Noles939913

So he only did them for one year? Because he was back down to 28 the next year.

You'd have to ask the experts here. I am of the opinion a lot of it is luck based because steroids aren't getting you from 30 to 57 home runs. You know what does? A lot of luck if it's an extreme outlier.

[oldgoldy97]

Wade Boggs maxed at 24. His next best was 11. Other than that, he was under double digits every year of his career.

Joe Mauer also had a similar aberration.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

Wade Boggs maxed at 24. His next best was 11. Other than that, he was under double digits every year of his career.

Joe Mauer also had a similar aberration.

Boggs (29 yr) and Mauer (26 yr) were both in their 20s when they had career highs in homer. Neither crossed 30 never mind 50.

From ages 23 to 29 Luis Gonzalez never hit more than 15 home runs in a season. That's a huge sample size.

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

Wade Boggs maxed at 24. His next best was 11. Other than that, he was under double digits every year of his career.

Joe Mauer also had a similar aberration.

Reminds me of Terry Steinbach in 1996 who hit 35 home runs despite his next best season being the 16 home runs he hit in 1987, his rookie year. The dude was around Canseco and McGwire for years and never hit more than 16 home runs. I think if he were to have taken roids, it would have been when those two were in the clubhouse, not in 1996 for one single season. Outliers don't always mean PEDs were involved.

[oldgoldy97]

Originally Posted by 88horsepower

Reminds me of Terry Steinbach in 1996 who hit 35 home runs despite his next best season being the 16 home runs he hit in 1987, his rookie year. The dude was around Canseco and McGwire for years and never hit more than 16 home runs. I think if he were to have taken roids, it would have been when those two were in the clubhouse, not in 1996 for one single season. Outliers don't always mean PEDs were involved.

Good point.


Someone should do an in depth analysis of every big jump ever.

[rfgilles]

Go look at the single season leaders in home runs
https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...R_season.shtml


Gonzalez is the only player on that whole list to never have a 30-homer season in his 20s.

You don't hit home runs by luck.

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

Go look at the single season leaders in home runs
https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...R_season.shtml


Gonzalez is the only player on that whole list to never have a 30-homer season in his 20s.

You don't hit home runs by luck.

And yet, he wasn't on the Mitchell Report list, was never suspended for PED usage, and no legitimate list of users has ever had his name associated. So, it would seem the burden of proof is on you to come up with a legitimate source that proves he used. Otherwise, I'm going to call the season an outlier.

[coltsnsox07]

Well if he did they weren't very good ones, that Game 7 game winning hit off Mariano was a bloop just past the infield dirt, but it was beautiful!

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by 88horsepower

Reminds me of Terry Steinbach in 1996 who hit 35 home runs despite his next best season being the 16 home runs he hit in 1987, his rookie year. The dude was around Canseco and McGwire for years and never hit more than 16 home runs. I think if he were to have taken roids, it would have been when those two were in the clubhouse, not in 1996 for one single season. Outliers don't always mean PEDs were involved.

1996, the same year Caminiti hit 40 HRs because of steroids. Any blip or outlier during the Steroid Era has to be suspected. That's just the reality of it.

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by 88horsepower

Reminds me of Terry Steinbach in 1996 who hit 35 home runs despite his next best season being the 16 home runs he hit in 1987, his rookie year. The dude was around Canseco and McGwire for years and never hit more than 16 home runs. I think if he were to have taken roids, it would have been when those two were in the clubhouse, not in 1996 for one single season. Outliers don't always mean PEDs were involved.

He was 34 years old, in his walk year, had the best offensive season of his career, and was teammates with known juicers like Big Mac and Giambi. He completely fell off the table with the Twins the following year -- use your brain.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

Wade Boggs maxed at 24. His next best was 11. Other than that, he was under double digits every year of his career.

Joe Mauer also had a similar aberration.

As did Brady Anderson in 1996.

More recently, Salvador Perez's 2021 season (48 HR) stands out as a bit of an outlier as well given that he's never had more than 27 in any other season.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by mfw13

As did Brady Anderson in 1996.

More recently, Salvador Perez's 2021 season (48 HR) stands out as a bit of an outlier as well given that he's never had more than 27 in any other season.

You assume Brady was clean?

[fabiani12333]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

Wade Boggs maxed at 24. His next best was 11. Other than that, he was under double digits every year of his career.

Joe Mauer also had a similar aberration.

Boggs' 24 home runs was during the "rabbit ball" 1987 season: https://www.nbcsports.com/mlb/news/r...aseball-season

Mauer's 28 home runs in 2009 was suspicious, though -- his second-highest season total was 13.

[JustinVerlander07]

Oh, can't forget the Dee Gordon thread, he hit for a higher average because of steroids, not because there is this thing called luck. Same logic applies to my last post. Obviously blowout has looks of guys who are experts in the medical field and on steroids, though.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Oh, can't forget the Dee Gordon thread, he hit for a higher average because of steroids, not because there is this thing called luck. Same logic applies to my last post. Obviously blowout has looks of guys who are experts in the medical field and on steroids, though.

You know being juiced and having an anomaly year don't have to be mutually exclusive, right? If anything, it'd just make a possible anomalous performance be even more anomalous.

Think you may be underthinking this one.


- 2001.

-

- The Clear.


Pick 3.


(you're never going to obtain that level of bulk/cut/vascularity being natty. Not unless you're IBFF comp. level or spend 12 hours a day in the gym)

[TeeBee12]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

You know being juiced and having an anomaly year don't have to be mutually exclusive, right? If anything, it'd just make a possible anomalous performance be even more anomalous.

This is also true.

And if that pic is of the year in question, then it would prolly swing my “benefit of the doubt” vote from 60/40 back down to 52/48. Still, circumstantial evidence resulting in a not guilty (yet) verdict.


- Partly Cloudy

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by TeeBee12

This is also true.

And if that pic is of the year in question, then it would prolly swing my “benefit of the doubt” vote from 60/40 back down to 52/48. Still, circumstantial evidence resulting in a not guilty (yet) verdict.


- Partly Cloudy

There are multiple exhibits to present to the BO jury if needed.



IMO, his season always drew red flags for me. And it being right dead smack in the middle of the PED era makes it a no brainer for me.

Though at this point it's strictly a judgement call. Even Rafael vehemently denied and lied under oath before getting popped just a few months later (lol).

[TeeBee12]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

There are multiple exhibits to present to the BO jury if needed.

They want the boy. Gonzalez w/ guns. And bandanas.

You’re pulling’em over for “doing 55 in a 54”.

Bananas.

Even if the driving glove DID fit.

Not guilty.

Still legit.

Stop blowin smoke,

This aint Havana.

Puff the L, we’ll go listen to my homeboy…..

[StateEx]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

You know being juiced and having an anomaly year don't have to be mutually exclusive, right? If anything, it'd just make a possible anomalous performance be even more anomalous.

Think you may be underthinking this one.


- 2001.

-

- The Clear.


Pick 3.


(you're never going to obtain that level of bulk/cut/vascularity being natty. Not unless you're IBFF comp. level or spend 12 hours a day in the gym)

This sums it up perfectly. Reminds me of the Onion article re Bonds:

https://theonion.com/barry-bonds-too...ve-1819568339/

“I originally heard that Barry Bonds was on steroids during a Giants game in 2001, when my buddy Phil, who was on the couch next to me, said, ’Dude, that Barry Bonds guy is definitely on steroids,’” said Chicago resident Mitch Oliveras. “After 10 seconds of careful observation, and performing a brief comparison of Bonds’ present neck width with that on Phil’s old 1986 Bonds rookie card, I was convinced.”