eBay Raw Card Purchases - What's reasonable for a return?

[hypostatic]

I purchased a $500+ raw rookie card recently and just received the package. I don't want to get into the details of the player or card in case the seller is a member here.

The seller had listed two photos of the front of the card in a sleeve and another two of the back of the card in a sleeve. There were no apparent surface issues on the card and I assumed any visible dots and lines were lint and smudges. Fortunately, after gently wiping the card down, all of the dots and lines disappeared and the card looks pristine other than a single "pit" near the center front of the card that wasn't in the pictures and wasn't disclosed.

Based on my inspection, but for that pit, this card might have graded a PSA 9 or 10, but now I'm not sure if it would even get an 8.

Is this something the seller should have disclosed? If so, is this a legitimate reason to return the card? I don't have buyer's remorse. I love the card and I'm happy to keep it for my PC, but I can't help but feel that the issue should have been identified in the description given how prominent it is.

[JLR0747]

Originally Posted by hypostatic

I purchased a $500+ raw rookie card recently and just received the package. I don't want to get into the details of the player or card in case the seller is a member here.

The seller had listed two photos of the front of the card in a sleeve and another two of the back of the card in a sleeve. There were no apparent surface issues on the card and I assumed any visible dots and lines were lint and smudges. Fortunately, after gently wiping the card down, all of the dots and lines disappeared and the card looks pristine other than a single "pit" near the center front of the card that wasn't in the pictures and wasn't disclosed.

Based on my inspection, but for that pit, this card might have graded a PSA 9 or 10, but now I'm not sure if it would even get an 8.

Is this something the seller should have disclosed? If so, is this a legitimate reason to return the card? I don't have buyer's remorse. I love the card and I'm happy to keep it for my PC, but I can't help but feel that the issue should have been identified in the description given how prominent it is.

What is your ebay user id?

[SGC300ier]

Originally Posted by JLR0747

What is your ebay user id?

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[hockeyguyrich]

Originally Posted by JLR0747

What is your ebay user id?

This right here

[goldkobe]

Originally Posted by hockeyguyrich

This right here

Please provide your user ID so we can block you. This is exactly the reason why people grade their cards
If you want psa9 or psa10, buy graded cards, period.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by JLR0747

What is your ebay user id?

This right here. I mean wow. Card is definitely NMT-MT, so fair raw.

[lyyca]

Originally Posted by JLR0747

What is your ebay user id?

I want to know too.

[1980bust]

Originally Posted by JLR0747

What is your ebay user id?

The real MVP.

Sure, everyone's got an opinion on what's acceptable. Me personally, I'd rather avoid anyone simply buying-to-grade because their expectations are that you're sending them a voucher redeemable for a gold bar, because that's what they've been led to believe.

Myself, I only buy cards that I want for my PC, so I'm not bothered at all if some flipper doesn't come round my way. Our worlds don't collide.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by 1980bust

The real MVP.

Sure, everyone's got an opinion on what's acceptable. Me personally, I'd rather avoid anyone simply buying-to-grade because their expectations are that you're sending them a voucher redeemable for a gold bar, because that's what they've been led to believe.

Myself, I only buy cards that I want for my PC, so I'm not bothered at all if some flipper doesn't come round my way. Our worlds don't collide.

It's pretty easy to avoid those gem miner buyers. Just disclose the flaws. Or say, "this card will not gem". Sadly, too many shady sellers want to maximize profits by not avoiding these buyers and then complain when they get returns.

I find that kinda funny.

[1980bust]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

It's pretty easy to avoid those gem miner buyers. Just disclose the flaws. Or say, "this card will not gem". Sadly, too many shady sellers want to maximize profits by not avoiding these buyers and then complain when they get returns.

I find that kinda funny.

Your point about disclosing flaws is completely subjective. OP pointed out seeing a tiny divot AFTER cleaning the card. Now, to OP that is a flaw, to many others in this thread, it's not a flaw. So who's right?

Unless we establish a universal flaw finding and rating system, everyone will have different levels they're happy with. Unless it's a scratch, an auto smudge, or damage that's really obvious, and even then different people will tolerate different stuff.

Sure, there's shady sellers out there, no doubt. But the vast majority aren't, yet gem mining (as you phrase it) is almost everywhere.

Me personally, I hate the whole grading thing, and I hate the effect it's having on everything. So I avoid it - just like OP and everyone else can avoid raw cards if what they're really after is a PSA 10. It's not hard to be honest with yourself what your intentions are - if you want a gem, pay for it. If you want to find a low priced card for the chance it MIGHT gem and net you a massive profit, then that's the gamble you're taking. It's not on raw sellers to guarantee your purchases come back gem after you send them off for grading.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by 1980bust

Your point about disclosing flaws is completely subjective. OP pointed out seeing a tiny divot AFTER cleaning the card. Now, to OP that is a flaw, to many others in this thread, it's not a flaw. So who's right?

Unless we establish a universal flaw finding and rating system, everyone will have different levels they're happy with. Unless it's a scratch, an auto smudge, or damage that's really obvious, and even then different people will tolerate different stuff.

Sure, there's shady sellers out there, no doubt. But the vast majority aren't, yet gem mining (as you phrase it) is almost everywhere.

Me personally, I hate the whole grading thing, and I hate the effect it's having on everything. So I avoid it - just like OP and everyone else can avoid raw cards if what they're really after is a PSA 10. It's not hard to be honest with yourself what your intentions are - if you want a gem, pay for it. If you want to find a low priced card for the chance it MIGHT gem and net you a massive profit, then that's the gamble you're taking. It's not on raw sellers to guarantee your purchases come back gem after you send them off for grading.

I hear you. And I don't disagree, except for the last part. Why do buyers need to gamble? Where else is that the norm? Why can't sellers describe what they're selling?

This concept isn't hard. It's really not. Just be honest. As my husband always says, Don't Be An A$$hole. Be honest. It's not hard.

You don't need to say "this card is a 10" or a 9 or an 8 or whatever. All sellers need to do is point out flaws. Just say "this card has a surface dimple"...or take a pic of the print line....or whatever. Just don't be an a$$hole. Easy peasy, no?

If sellers don't want to do that, or can't be bothered to actually look at their cards, or are too freaking stupid to spot flaws (as if I believe "I am not a pro grader, lol), then they are going to get returns. That is a fact, like it or not. And those returns will not be optional.

Sellers get to decide for themselves, are they going to disclose condition, or are they going to get a lot of returns. That's just the way it is. I don't make the rules. I just dislike when sellers choose not to disclose true condition and then whine about returns. Sellers, you get to choose one, not both.

I say this as a seller. Yes, it's true...I sell probably four times as much as I buy on the Bay. The shady sellers out there are taking food off of the tables of honest sellers. I disclose flaws. For sellers that don't, don't expect sympathy from me.

Just do the right thing. It's not hard. Seriously.


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[jamcas997]

Originally Posted by JustRachel

It's pretty easy to avoid those gem miner buyers. Just disclose the flaws. Or say, "this card will not gem". Sadly, too many shady sellers want to maximize profits by not avoiding these buyers and then complain when they get returns.

I find that kinda funny.

You can say that all you want , but I still got a return from a grade chaser on a $15 card and my items all state this:

PLEASE READ ALL BEFORE BUYING INCLUDING THE SHIPPING SPECIFICS BELOW SO THERE ARE NO ISSUES LATER. PLEASE NOTE AND UNDERSTANDTHAT MOST THICK , CHROME , FOIL ,AND NEWER TYPE OF CARDS MAY CONTAIN SOME FORM OF FLAWS SUCH AS EDGE CHIPPING AND OR DINGS , CORNER DINING , BOWING , AND SURFACE SCRATCHING. WHICH IS A FREQUENT OCCURRENCE IN THE PRODUCTION OF CARDS AS THE MANUFACTURERS HAVE NOT PERFECTED A SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM. THIS HAS BEEN AND UNDERSTOOD IN OUR INDUSTRY AND WE CONSIDER THESE CARDS TO BE NRMT .This card is not mint , but may be considered nrmt this is why it is priced low and you the buyer are accepting that , so if you are looking for a gem mint 10 or are a grade chaser this is not the one as I am not a Professional grader and do not profess to be one as EBAY has the approved list of graders .This card was taken from the pack to a soft sleeve for protection .

If there is also a notable flaw it will be listed as well, they don't care because most do not READ THE DESCRIPTION. While I allow free returns the INAD kill me JUST ASK FOR A RETURN and don't be a Richard Cranium.

[JustRachel]

Originally Posted by jamcas997

You can say that all you want , but I still got a return from a grade chaser on a $15 card and my items all state this:



PLEASE READ ALL BEFORE BUYING INCLUDING THE SHIPPING SPECIFICS BELOW SO THERE ARE NO ISSUES LATER. PLEASE NOTE AND UNDERSTANDTHAT MOST THICK , CHROME , FOIL ,AND NEWER TYPE OF CARDS MAY CONTAIN SOME FORM OF FLAWS SUCH AS EDGE CHIPPING AND OR DINGS , CORNER DINING , BOWING , AND SURFACE SCRATCHING. WHICH IS A FREQUENT OCCURRENCE IN THE PRODUCTION OF CARDS AS THE MANUFACTURERS HAVE NOT PERFECTED A SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM. THIS HAS BEEN AND UNDERSTOOD IN OUR INDUSTRY AND WE CONSIDER THESE CARDS TO BE NRMT .This card is not mint , but may be considered nrmt this is why it is priced low and you the buyer are accepting that , so if you are looking for a gem mint 10 or are a grade chaser this is not the one as I am not a Professional grader and do not profess to be one as EBAY has the approved list of graders .This card was taken from the pack to a soft sleeve for protection .



If there is also a notable flaw it will be listed as well, they don't care because most do not READ THE DESCRIPTION. While I allow free returns the INAD kill me JUST ASK FOR A RETURN and don't be a Richard Cranium.

So...you put a generic disclaimer on all your listings.

Okay.

It's substantial, but still generic. Describe your card, lol. Each card.

Even that won't kill all returns, because we all know there are idiots out there, but at least it will minimize them.

But...screw it. Do what you think is best (of course).
I'm just saying I don't have many problems. If you do, maybe you're just unlucky.

I feel for you. I really do. I just don't see or experience that myself.

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[The Finest]

Originally Posted by JLR0747

What is your ebay user id?

YES!!! LOL

[BRob1]

Originally Posted by glen87

to me, there are too many "new people" jumping into the hobby without educating themselves as to what they are buying simply because someone told them buy this card, get it graded, and make money.

too often, these people buy a card that all of us veterans would instantly recognize as an 8 or possibly a 9 at best (but 9 would be on a lucky day) thinking they are buying a gem 10, and when they get it on hand, there is a minor flaw (which was visible had they known what to look for), and then come running for help asking if it is ok to return the card.

not saying this is the case here since we do not have the whole picture, but i have seen it often enough the past 3-4 months that has caused me to become more skeptical.

Originally Posted by JustRachel

It's pretty easy to avoid those gem miner buyers. Just disclose the flaws. Or say, "this card will not gem". Sadly, too many shady sellers want to maximize profits by not avoiding these buyers and then complain when they get returns.

I find that kinda funny.

Originally Posted by JustRachel

I hear you. And I don't disagree, except for the last part. Why do buyers need to gamble? Where else is that the norm? Why can't sellers describe what they're selling?

This concept isn't hard. It's really not. Just be honest. As my husband always says, Don't Be An A$$hole. Be honest. It's not hard.

You don't need to say "this card is a 10" or a 9 or an 8 or whatever. All sellers need to do is point out flaws. Just say "this card has a surface dimple"...or take a pic of the print line....or whatever. Just don't be an a$$hole. Easy peasy, no?

If sellers don't want to do that, or can't be bothered to actually look at their cards, or are too freaking stupid to spot flaws (as if I believe "I am not a pro grader, lol), then they are going to get returns. That is a fact, like it or not. And those returns will not be optional.

Sellers get to decide for themselves, are they going to disclose condition, or are they going to get a lot of returns. That's just the way it is. I don't make the rules. I just dislike when sellers choose not to disclose true condition and then whine about returns. Sellers, you get to choose one, not both.

I say this as a seller. Yes, it's true...I sell probably four times as much as I buy on the Bay. The shady sellers out there are taking food off of the tables of honest sellers. I disclose flaws. For sellers that don't, don't expect sympathy from me.

Just do the right thing. It's not hard. Seriously.


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All valid and well articulated points.

I am primarily a buyer and get so frustrated with sellers who either won’t be honest in their listings/pics, answer the common question of “are there any condition issues” with “no flaws that can’t be seen in the pics” or just generally try to indemnify themselves from a return by giving vague answers. If I’m going to buy a $300 card from you, be honest about the condition! Help me out a little since I can’t turn it in hand.

I hate feeling like I have to interrogate the buyer to get them to disclose info. Just be transparent about what you’re selling. List any obvious flaws. Take a pic of it. Answer a potential buyers questions honestly. I know there are a ton of crappy buyers out there hunting 10’s. Hell, I hunt 10’s. I just try to ask enough questions and see enough pics that I know I’m ending up with something that is 9/10 and no worse.

The more transparent you are in your listing, the better experience you’ll have as a seller. If you ran a shop and somebody wanted to buy a $500 item from you, you’d be happy to spend 15-20 minutes with them answering questions to make the sale. Put the same effort into selling online. Don’t take two crappy pics then throw it online expecting high raw price and then getting mad when you get a return.

[asujbl]

Impossible to answer without seeing the auction and how it was described

Also what questions did you ask before spending $500+ on a raw rookie? Any?

[the36chamber]

you bought the card raw, take what you got.

if you wanted a PSA 9 or 10 you should of bought one.

[chelseafc11]

Do you enjoy the card and want to keep it in your PC or do you want a high grade and/or maximize profit to resell. Be transparent with us and yourself, please.

[sethc1020]

If you love the card and are happy to keep it for your PC then why are you asking about returning it?

there is a bit of negligence on both sides here. The seller probably should have mentioned it but you should have asked questions before buying it. When buying raw always ask questions before buying and never assume a raw card is a PSA 9 or 10.

[pyrexswerve]

Seller should have disclosed issue but at the same time if you are spending this much on a raw rookie, I hope you asked a lot of questions to the seller too.

Also, dependent on the issue, there could be a chance maybe the seller didnt notice it?

Obviously you don't just care about it to have for your personal collection & you wanted it graded, otherwise you wouldn't have made a post.

Nonetheless, hard to really give much detailed feedback with no pics or seeing the auction to see how the seller described it.

[tmar214]

A lot matters when the card is from. I'd say a 6-7 would be acceptable for a card from the 90s or early 2000s. For a card from this year I think if the card has a legitimate shot of grading an 8 that is reasonable.

[BonVoyage]

Did they switch cards on you? Did they somehow obfuscate the issue when taking pictures? Did they inaccurately describe it?
If the answer is No, then I don’t see how it’s right to return it.


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[glen87]

Originally Posted by hypostatic

I purchased a $500+ raw rookie card recently and just received the package. I don't want to get into the details of the player or card in case the seller is a member here.

The seller had listed two photos of the front of the card in a sleeve and another two of the back of the card in a sleeve. There were no apparent surface issues on the card and I assumed any visible dots and lines were lint and smudges. Fortunately, after gently wiping the card down, all of the dots and lines disappeared and the card looks pristine other than a single "pit" near the center front of the card that wasn't in the pictures and wasn't disclosed.

Based on my inspection, but for that pit, this card might have graded a PSA 9 or 10, but now I'm not sure if it would even get an 8.

Is this something the seller should have disclosed? If so, is this a legitimate reason to return the card? I don't have buyer's remorse. I love the card and I'm happy to keep it for my PC, but I can't help but feel that the issue should have been identified in the description given how prominent it is.

if you really want help, give us ALL the info so we can see what you were seeing when you bought the card. otherwise we are just making speculations.

[Spacemanspif]

the immediate jumps to "what is your ebay user ID so I can label you as a scammer" are interesting. makes me wonder how many cards with undisclosed issues these guys sell.

I occasionally return raw cards, but usually it has to be a certain threshold (recently a couple 1/2" marks that were not visible in the picture). typically don't ask too many questions about raw cards, sometimes "are there any obvious issues that you know of" but don't really expect a lot of honesty over ebay messages.

as for the OP, more info would be nice but I don't think a common issue like a surface dimple is worthy of return. probably should have been voluntarily disclosed by seller but I don't really expect much out of ebay sellers

[glen87]

Originally Posted by Spacemanspif

the immediate jumps to "what is your ebay user ID so I can label you as a scammer" are interesting. makes me wonder how many cards with undisclosed issues these guys sell.

I occasionally return raw cards, but usually it has to be a certain threshold (recently a couple 1/2" marks that were not visible in the picture). typically don't ask too many questions about raw cards, sometimes "are there any obvious issues that you know of" but don't really expect a lot of honesty over ebay messages.

as for the OP, more info would be nice but I don't think a common issue like a surface dimple is worthy of return. probably should have been voluntarily disclosed by seller but I don't really expect much out of ebay sellers

i agree with this, but we do not know if it was visible or not. so while it may not have been disclosed in writing, it may have been disclosed in the pictures.