Nobody likes The Moose?

[Ferg1945]

Mike Moustakas signed another 1 year contract tonight. Signed one last year as well.

Is he asking for too much? figured someone is always willing to sign a guy for 3 years.

[Hollywood42]

He messed up so bad

[Peties Army]

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

He messed up so bad

He um didn’t do well.

[bwalter1]

Originally Posted by Peties Army

He um didn’t do well.

I thought the same but then again at his age maybe he didn't want to go to the Chisox or Padres? Phillies could have been an option, but I think that with the lineup that the Brewers have they will be in the playoffs this year as opposed to rebuilding with Sox or Padres.

[rman112]

I wonder what he ended up making last year. I remember he supposedly had a bunch of incentive potential.

[bongo870]

I thought there was only one Moose in baseball. lol
[IMG][/IMG]

[premium1981]

I think he is a solid player, but nothing special. He had too many people whispering in his ear that he is more than what he is.

[mfw13]

Well, he was a 0.4 WAR player last year, and has averaged about 1.5 WAR per season over his career, so $10 million is pretty good.

[base set]

[IMG]
1974 Topps - [Base] #382 - Bob Moose [VG EX]
Courtesy of COMC.com[/IMG]

[packman80]

He really needs to fire his agent. Will end up making less or at best about break even over 2 years compared to what he would have made in 2018 had he accepted KC's qualifying offer.

[MOONBASE1]

Mike "Moose" Mussina.

[packman80]

Originally Posted by MOONBASE1

Mike "Moose" Mussina.

Moose & Squirrel

[Skipscards]

I like Moose. $10 MM is fair. There’s a mutal option so maybe he gets to stay there for another year.

[VeedonFleece]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

I like Moose. $10 MM is fair. There’s a mutal option so maybe he gets to stay there for another year.

That option was there for this year but Moustakas declined his end - it's possible the Brewers may have declined their option and he pre-empted this.

Still, you have to question the advice he's been given. He turned down the $17.4m qualifying offer in '17, then obviously declined the option for '19 - that's 32.4 million over two years. He ended up taking $5.5 for '18, and received $1m in a buyout when he declined the option for '19. So, instead of $32.4m for two years, he's ended up with $16.5m. I'm sure he's not hurting for cash but that's a lot of dough he's passed up.

[RossOK]

Originally Posted by VeedonFleece

That option was there for this year but Moustakas declined his end - it's possible the Brewers may have declined their option and he pre-empted this.

Still, you have to question the advice he's been given. He turned down the $17.4m qualifying offer in '17, then obviously declined the option for '19 - that's 32.4 million over two years. He ended up taking $5.5 for '18, and received $1m in a buyout when he declined the option for '19. So, instead of $32.4m for two years, he's ended up with $16.5m. I'm sure he's not hurting for cash but that's a lot of dough he's passed up.

You can't fault a guy for wanting to test the market when he finally reaches free agency, the so-called reward for being underpaid for years leading up to it. He just had the misfortune of having his free agency correspond with the offseasons where everybody *COINCIDENTALLY* decided it was smarter to not spend in free agency. It just sucks for guys like him that are caught in the middle of this timeline. Hopefully they'll get a cut of the collusion settlements that are sure to come in the near future.

[nickha2]

Originally Posted by RossOK

You can't fault a guy for wanting to test the market when he finally reaches free agency, the so-called reward for being underpaid for years leading up to it. He just had the misfortune of having his free agency correspond with the offseasons where everybody *COINCIDENTALLY* decided it was smarter to not spend in free agency. It just sucks for guys like him that are caught in the middle of this timeline. Hopefully they'll get a cut of the collusion settlements that are sure to come in the near future.

There is no collusion at all here. This is a matter of players wanting long contracts and the owners saying no. There are many examples of players getting 7 year deals and it crippling the team for years. This way with shorter contracts you can rebuild faster in the event a team doesn't do as well as projected.

On what planet is a guy going to get a 7 years 300M contract.

[RossOK]

Originally Posted by nickha2

There is no collusion at all here. This is a matter of players wanting long contracts and the owners saying no. There are many examples of players getting 7 year deals and it crippling the team for years. This way with shorter contracts you can rebuild faster in the event a team doesn't do as well as projected.

On what planet is a guy going to get a 7 years 300M contract.

Crippling by whose standards? I forget, how many losing seasons have the Yankees had since the Ellsbury signing? Or the Dodgers after signing Adrian Gonzalez? How about the Red Sox since signing Pablo Sandoval?

And nobody thinks a guy like Moustakas is asking for 7/$300M. But surely something like 3/$40 is more than workable for several teams. For not even one to offer something along those lines is rather suspicious.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by nickha2

There is no collusion at all here. This is a matter of players wanting long contracts and the owners saying no. There are many examples of players getting 7 year deals and it crippling the team for years. This way with shorter contracts you can rebuild faster in the event a team doesn't do as well as projected.

On what planet is a guy going to get a 7 years 300M contract.

Bingo. I'll take my team, the Giants, far example:

After the 2014 season, we declined Pablo Sandoval's contract demands, and the Red Sox signed him to a 5/90 deal, for which they got -2.1 WAR.

After the 2015 season the Giants signed Jeff Samardzjia to a 5/90 deal. So far they've gotten 4.5 WAR for $50.4 million.

After the 2015 season the Giants also signed Johnny Cueto to a 6/130 deal with an opt-out after two seasons. Of course, Cueto got injured towards the end of his second season, logically decided not to opt-out, struggled through the early part of 2018 before having to have TJ surgery and missing the entire 2019 season. By the end of this year, the Giants will have paid $81.3 million for 8.3 WAR.

Then there is Mark Melancon, who the Giants signed in a panic after their 2016 season ended with a bullpen meltdown in Game 4 of the NLDS against the Cubs. So far he's rewarded the Giants with a whopping 0.2 WAR for his $29 million.

And don't get me started on Barry Zito's deal, during which he was paid $119 million, and earned 2 WAR.

So someone please explain why signing players to expensive long-term deals is a good idea????

[Peties Army]

Originally Posted by nickha2

There is no collusion at all here. This is a matter of players wanting long contracts and the owners saying no. There are many examples of players getting 7 year deals and it crippling the team for years. This way with shorter contracts you can rebuild faster in the event a team doesn't do as well as projected.

On what planet is a guy going to get a 7 years 300M contract.

Crippling? “Many examples”? Can we name some? Not saying there aren’t but it would be nice to know more

[bulljh]

Well his signing basically mean Keston stays down on the farm for another barring some sort injury to the big club.

[msink28]

He had 2.5 WAR last year, not 0.4. 0.4 was for his sample with the Brewers. It is a nice value play for Milwaukee, much like the Grandal signing.

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by msink28

He had 2.5 WAR last year, not 0.4. 0.4 was for his sample with the Brewers. It is a nice value play for Milwaukee, much like the Grandal signing.

What's Mike's WPA in his Post Season career? It's .20

How is the lifetime WPA for these WAR heroes in the regular season compared to when nearly every opportunity in the Post Season is critical? Top 3 in MVP vote last season and their lifetime career WPA.

Mike Trout : -15
Mookie Betts : -57
Jose Ramirez : -70

Many players can produce in Low Leverage opportunities but give me the Late & Close, High Leverage, Post Season players who don't go Houdini on their team.

[Stech36]

Originally Posted by Stifle

What's Mike's WPA in his Post Season career? It's .20

How is the lifetime WPA for these WAR heroes in the regular season compared to when nearly every opportunity in the Post Season is critical? Top 3 in MVP vote last season and their lifetime career WPA.

Mike Trout : -15
Mookie Betts : -57
Jose Ramirez : -70

Many players can produce in Low Leverage opportunities but give me the Late & Close, High Leverage, Post Season players who don't go Houdini on their team.

I don’t know where you’re getting those numbers. mike Trouts Career WPA is 39.23

Edit, oh in the postseason. It’s -.15 for Trout. In 3 games lol

[Stifle]

Originally Posted by Stech36

I don’t know where you’re getting those numbers. mike Trouts Career WPA is 39.23

Edit, oh in the postseason. It’s -.15 for Trout. In 3 games lol

His most important 3 games of his career, I believe you forgot to mention that.

[nickha2]

Originally Posted by bulljh

Well his signing basically mean Keston stays down on the farm for another barring some sort injury to the big club.

No he will be up trust me. Shaw will just platoon. This was the whole reason they only signed Moose to a 1 year because shaw has better power numbers and will move back to 3rd next year and Keston will be the starting 2B.