A Very Important Paypal Dispute Learning Experience

[KidKards101]

It's a very long story, of around 2 months of a Paypal dispute dealing with a buyer whom I sold a 1986 Fleer Jordan RC PSA 8 through Paypal because he was willing to pay my asking price if I went outside of ebay. To make the super long story short, he paid through goods/services (I would think I would get seller's protection), I shipped the card out well protected in a box, padded envelope inside the box, packaging peanuts inside the box, did a shake test, etc., practically bomb proof with tracking. Buyer sent me an email after receiving the card and admitted it is for a regrade. So, he cracked the case out of the PSA holder and claimed after cracking it out that the card is a reprint/fake. He then wanted a refund of his money. I said why then did you crack it out of the case if you want a refund? It is not possible to refund you now because anyone can switch the card to a reprint, which is practically what I got back from him.. A fake/reprint MJ card in a ultra pro plastic sleeve and the label back separately.

A dispute for his money back was filed against me thereafter. I presented the email exchanges and pictures of before and after I received the card. Paypal ruled in the buyer's favor because it was a case "item not as described." Apparently, seller's do not have protection when a case such as this is filed AND if the buyer does a chargeback on their credit card company for their money back. Be mindful of this guys. I had a negative balance after this and had to pay collections the full amount. I appealed the case and still lost due to the above reasons still.

I am left with a fake/reprint card and out $2,000.. After being a member of both ebay (over 1,000 positives) and Paypal (good standing) for 17+ years, I still lost the case. So to sum it all up, if a buyer files a dispute on you the seller, you will not win the case if:

1) Seller files for "Item not as described"
2) Chargeback towards the CC company

[pgisback]

Damn, selling higher dollar cards always scares me because of this stuff. That's an absolute bummer there is no protection on a $2k deal like that.

[mrdallas]

can we get ebay ID please. Sorry man. What a POS

[imbluestreak23]

Buyer ID?

Buyer name?

Buyer Location?

Police report filed? This is felony theft for most states

[mma138]

Originally Posted by imbluestreak23

Buyer ID?

Buyer name?

Buyer Location?

Police report filed? This is felony theft for most states

I filed a police report years ago . I had sold django figures , the buyer wanted a refund because the "certificates" of authenticity were missing. but these didn't come with certificates . but of course ebay has no clue about these things . of course he won the case . I had to refund the buyer . I got 2 figures back but they were defenetly not the ones I sent him . mine were mint . the ones he sent me the seals were broken and boxes were severely damaged . so yes . once again stolen mail . he kept my mint ones and sent me his banged up ones ............. and got away with it...

[johnyensmith123]

Unbelievable. Whether it's paypal or ebay, it really sucks to be a seller for a multitude of reasons, this being the main reason.

Is it possible to file a police report or something for this kind of thing? Although I guess it will be kind of hard to convict him due to lack of evidence, as I doubt police will even understand how to tell between real and fake/reprint Jordan RC and also it's kind of hard to prove that the buyer swapped it out.

Would you be willing to share with us his full name and ebay username so we can block him?

[ThoseBackPages]

damn

[nera20]

file a mail fraud case if you follow through with all the paperwork it actually works and file a police report

[KidKards101]

Originally Posted by nera20

file a mail fraud case if you follow through with all the paperwork it actually works and file a police report

I guess mail fraud with USPS which is where I shipped the card from? Would this work even if the buyer did in fact receive the card. I dunno what sort of good evidence I can present to strengthen the probability of winning the case. Same with police, I would think they would brush something like this off since it is just a card, not a murder or something really bad, and the value is rather not that big in comparison to other fraudulent transactions in the 5-6 figure range.

[nera20]

Originally Posted by KidKards101

I guess mail fraud with USPS which is where I shipped the card from? Would this work even if the buyer did in fact receive the card. I dunno what sort of good evidence I can present to strengthen the probability of winning the case. Same with police, I would think they would brush something like this off since it is just a card, not a murder or something really bad, and the value is rather not that big in comparison to other fraudulent transactions in the 5-6 figure range.

you would be suprised how serious the post office takes this. someone ripped me off, i filed mail fraud paperwork suprise suprise about 6-7 months later i get contacted and get refunded and a apology from the scammer because its a felony and he was gonna get in trouble over $500 bucks. problem is most people don’t follow through with the paperwork it’s actually pretty easy. also the police might be tougher but call the local PD in that area you might be suprised

[CastleBeachCards]

I bought a case of b-ball cards from out of state in 03/04 for $1,500. The guy kept brushing me off for months. Wouldn’t send case. I finally called the police and they wrote him an official email and the case arrived a week later. The guy was shitting his pants. Trust me, the police is a good idea, might work

Originally Posted by KidKards101

I guess mail fraud with USPS which is where I shipped the card from? Would this work even if the buyer did in fact receive the card. I dunno what sort of good evidence I can present to strengthen the probability of winning the case. Same with police, I would think they would brush something like this off since it is just a card, not a murder or something really bad, and the value is rather not that big in comparison to other fraudulent transactions in the 5-6 figure range.

[ehp6737]

Originally Posted by KidKards101

I guess mail fraud with USPS which is where I shipped the card from? Would this work even if the buyer did in fact receive the card. I dunno what sort of good evidence I can present to strengthen the probability of winning the case. Same with police, I would think they would brush something like this off since it is just a card, not a murder or something really bad, and the value is rather not that big in comparison to other fraudulent transactions in the 5-6 figure range.

I see your logic, but where the post office would be intetested is because by the seller shipping back to you using usps in order to complete his crime he was then committing mail fraud. So you want to work it from the return package angle, not the package you sent him.

[ballhawkdawk]

Where does he live ? I will get you your card if he’s in my area.

[johnyensmith123]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

Where does he live ? I will get you your card if he’s in my area.

How though?

[dasiegel]

Originally Posted by johnyensmith123

How though?

with brute force if necessary

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by johnyensmith123

How though?

The old fashioned way. A personal touch is always nice.

[hairyangryfella]

That's complete BS and an obvious scam.
What was 'not described'? The professionally graded card? Ebay sellers wouldn't take that so why the hell should you? And he can tell it's a fake when PSA couldn't? Unless it's a fake label/case then that's not likely...
Crack a real card. File a claim. Replace with a readily available reprint - easy scam.
Surely there's obvious difference in the centering/corners/edges between the graded card and what he sent back.
Take this further. Demand to speak to someone at paypal until this is righted. I've similarly lost a case which was a joke and I fought it and fought it until I finally found someone with common sense.

Also research the label serial number and find more about it.

[KidKards101]

Originally Posted by hairyangryfella

That's complete BS and an obvious scam.
What was 'not described'? The professionally graded card? Ebay sellers wouldn't take that so why the hell should you? And he can tell it's a fake when PSA couldn't? Unless it's a fake label/case then that's not likely...
Crack a real card. File a claim. Replace with a readily available reprint - easy scam.
Surely there's obvious difference in the centering/corners/edges between the graded card and what he sent back.
Take this further. Demand to speak to someone at paypal until this is righted. I've similarly lost a case which was a joke and I fought it and fought it until I finally found someone with common sense.

Also research the label serial number and find more about it.

Believe me, i've fought and fought and fought. Talked to multiple customer service reps in paypal, demanded to speak to the supervisor in which he told me to write to the legal team in San Jose, CA about what had happened so I can get the buyer's credit card company's phone number so I can present my side of the story. Still have not heard from the Paypal's legal team yet.

I have bounced around from regular paypal rep, to disputes specialist, back to paypal rep, then to paypal collections, than back to disputes.. No joke.

[dasiegel]

wow.

1. sorry
2. please post the buyers name and all ebay/etc info so we don't deal with them
3. wow

[KidKards101]

Ya it's a lesson learned for sure. Paypal mentioned that perhaps the best way is to go through small claims court with this sort of thing, but I really reallly do not want to put more money, time, lawyer fees, etc. into this if I don't even know I will 100% win the case. Apparently with paypal, email exchanges are not good enough support/evidence for the case because it can be altered.. Not sure how else or what else to do.

Anyways the buyer's Paypal SN: fwsv4169. He has 1 feedback.

Name: Glen Lee from Bellevue, WA.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by KidKards101

Ya it's a lesson learned for sure. Paypal mentioned that perhaps the best way is to go through small claims court with this sort of thing, but I really reallly do not want to put more money, time, lawyer fees, etc. into this if I don't even know I will 100% win the case. Apparently with paypal, email exchanges are not good enough support/evidence for the case because it can be altered.. Not sure how else or what else to do.

Anyways the buyer's Paypal SN: fwsv4169. He has 1 feedback.

Name: Glen Lee from Bellevue, WA.

I’ll be in Bellevue in August.

[theleica]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

I’ll be in Bellevue in August.

This Glen Lee>

6216 127th Ave SE
Bellevue, WA 98006

[theleica]

Originally Posted by theleica

This Glen Lee>



6216 127th Ave SE

Bellevue, WA 98006

If this is the right guy (He is the only Glen Lee in Bellevue, WA) you have all the telephone numbers and info you need. I’d call his neighbors, his wife, etc. Probably start with his wife and let her know you are filing mail fraud charges and go from there.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GOATcollector]

Originally Posted by theleica

If this is the right guy (He is the only Glen Lee in Bellevue, WA) you have all the telephone numbers and info you need. I’d call his neighbors, his wife, etc. Probably start with his wife and let her know you are filing mail fraud charges and go from there.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow. Is this a free or paid service to get all this info on someone. Looks to include just about everything except maybe his colonoscopy pictures. Crazy

[Kardbordkrakhed]

Just threw up a little.

Sorry this happened.



Bellevue, WA.... only about 3.5 hours away from me. REGULATOOOOOOOOORRRSSSSSS MOUNT UP!!