What are "Beckett/Fantatics Witnessed Authentic Autograph" cards?

[JWBlue]

I have seen this on BGS holders.

I understand the wording but not sure what exactly it means. Does it mean the player did a signing in front of an employee of the company? Where were these cards originally sold?

The important question is whether I can trust it as much as a pack pulled autograph card.

Are Beckett and Fanatics affiliated?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/30582214166...Bk9SR5yaqf3LZA

[mjohnatgt]

Witnessed means that they should have been viewed by an employee of the company to certify it as real.

I believe that some companies certify items at card show signings if you bring the item and the stub showing that you got an item signed by the player at the show.

However, "witnessed" is declaring that they watched the auto get signed, I believe. In that case, it's actually more reputable then pack-inserted autos, of which many were signed by members of the player's family or agent, and sometimes even signed mechanically by an autopen device.

[DynaEtch]

CGC also does this with their Signature Series yellow labels.

Witnessed > pack inserted >>>>>> authenticated autos after the fact.

The only thing with witnessed is I think they should make it even more strict as in a member of CGC/BGS has to be physically present at the signing. They do have those, but I think they can also be sent from card show signings around the country with stubs etc, which have a bit of a chain. Not 100% on that. But I am never doubting a CGC signature series auto personally. On each one of those they list the exact date of the signing.

I think pack inserted are generally fine, although in rare cases there have been problems.

I am not a fan of authenticated autos at all, as there are fundamental problems with it.

[JWBlue]

Originally Posted by DynaEtch

, but I think they can also be sent from card show signings around the country with stubs etc, which have a bit of a chain.

So someone could go to a show and get an auto. Then forge one and send that with the ticket stub to get it authenticated?

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by JWBlue

So someone could go to a show and get an auto. Then forge one and send that with the ticket stub to get it authenticated?

I’m not 100% on the details, but for CGC they may have employees still there and present, we’re talking about signings at big cons like NYCC etc. And they have what are called authorized facilitators, which are prominent comic businesses, which can accept your submission and send it in for you right from the Con. It probably has to be through them. A random Joe Schmo can’t just get something signed and then send it for a CGC witnessed sig grade.

While I’m not totally sure on the details, it all looks legit to me and I don’t really question anything in a CGC yellow label slab. That to me means it’s signed. I would put it at least on the level of pack-pulled, actually higher. Way higher than authenticated autos. The one actual way to know an auto is literally 100% certain is to get it signed yourself IP. (well excepting the person is wearing a disguise or a twin or something ). But witnessed slabbed sigs are probably next in line after that, for me.

[mjohnatgt]

Originally Posted by JWBlue

So someone could go to a show and get an auto. Then forge one and send that with the ticket stub to get it authenticated?

For JSA at major shows, I believe that is a possibility.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by mjohnatgt

However, "witnessed" is declaring that they watched the auto get signed, I believe. In that case, it's actually more reputable then pack-inserted autos, of which many were signed by members of the player's family or agent, and sometimes even signed mechanically by an autopen device.

I’m 99% sure BAS uses the same setup as Panini and Topps/Fanatics on occasion as well. The athlete is shipped the materials and a 3rd party (agent, handler, friend, family members) signs an affidavit affirming they witnessed the materials being signed and then BAS treats that 3rd party as an agent witness. They do offer witness certs at public and private signings where employees are present, but I’m almost certain they go the contract route as well. The language specific to Beckett Witnessed states a “representative” not an “employee.” I’ve also seen a handful of people bring evidence forward that Christiano Ronaldo BAS witnessed material has the same hallmarks of Panini autographs attributed to his brother.

[SliderCutter14]

Back in the early days of Beckett "certified" they used to do something similar to Upper Deck "certified", the autographs could be on-site at a convention or it could be a 3rd party oversight person that acts more like a person that just sees the celeb packing the cards/autograhed photos/balls into the package. You don't know if those oversight staff fully know how a sports player or celeb signs stuff. Some players are known for using a slightly different autograph for photos/sports cards vs balls/pucks as a way to track "fakes" on their spare time.

Back in early 2000s as a pitching coach laughed a bit when a well known NHL player said "you never quite know if those hockey pucks on Upper Deck of the late 90s-2000 are fully accurate as they're just as lax as some comic-con closed session autograph certifications". and that chat happened while golfing in the hockey off-season. Having said that I only trust on-card(non sticker) cards, you can't trust autographed jersey relics as some have noticed mixing up jersey patches on actual player patch cards(wrong team patch or the backside of the patch is labeled from another player on the same team). There is a reason on some cards they list "this game used relic isn't from a specific game or year" as it covers their rear if someone pulls apart the card to find the patch backside is the wrong player name. (someone I know pulled apart a Julio card and the patch had a label on the backside of "George Kirby"... got to wonder how many Kirby cards are really Julio patches)

[SaveMeTheGum]

If it says Fanatics, it's sus.

[DynaEtch]

Originally Posted by SliderCutter14

Back in the early days of Beckett "certified" they used to do something similar to Upper Deck "certified", the autographs could be on-site at a convention or it could be a 3rd party oversight person that acts more like a person that just sees the celeb packing the cards/autograhed photos/balls into the package. You don't know if those oversight staff fully know how a sports player or celeb signs stuff. Some players are known for using a slightly different autograph for photos/sports cards vs balls/pucks as a way to track "fakes" on their spare time.

Back in early 2000s as a pitching coach laughed a bit when a well known NHL player said "you never quite know if those hockey pucks on Upper Deck of the late 90s-2000 are fully accurate as they're just as lax as some comic-con closed session autograph certifications". and that chat happened while golfing in the hockey off-season. Having said that I only trust on-card(non sticker) cards, you can't trust autographed jersey relics as some have noticed mixing up jersey patches on actual player patch cards(wrong team patch or the backside of the patch is labeled from another player on the same team). There is a reason on some cards they list "this game used relic isn't from a specific game or year" as it covers their rear if someone pulls apart the card to find the patch backside is the wrong player name. (someone I know pulled apart a Julio card and the patch had a label on the backside of "George Kirby"... got to wonder how many Kirby cards are really Julio patches)

Bolded seems like a random and oddly specific thing to say….guess we can’t really know about such anecdotes.

Relics and game used stuff isn’t the topic of the OP though. The style in which the celeb signs something and whether the overseer knows their sig isn’t even much an issue. They can sign it however they want, the important thing is they signed it at the session. I have zero concerns about, say an in-house CGC witnessed auto. Of course part of that requires I have confidence in the integrity of the slab itself (tamper-proof), which I do for CGC.