1993 Finest Refractors - HUNDREDS of them!

[mouschi]

A year or two ago, I ran a poll asking what BO thinks the best '90s insert/parallel is. IIRC, the '93 Finest Refractors ran away with it.

These listings were posted on another forum by the user smapdi. There are a few auctions running now with HUNDREDS of '93 Finest refractors. Keep in mind: These were seeded at 1 a box, with the boxes going for around $650 each now.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-710-199...C/401681514790 - 710 refractors currently at over $2,000

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-510-199...C/143083437040 - 510 refractors currently at over $2,500

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-800-199...C/401681514791 - 800 refractors at $6,200 currently

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hoard-1000-...C/401681516804 - 1,000 refractors at $8,200 currently

This sparked a bit of debate as to what the print run is on these. It has long been said that they were limited to 241 copies. I did some sleuthing and found that between the PSA and BGS POP reports, nearly 300 Frank Thomas cards have been graded.

Surely, a lot of these are due to re-subbing, but to think anywhere near 100% of the print run has been graded is kind of silly.

Though 241 copies may seem huge by today's standards (I'll write more on this later), consider the Donruss Elite cards with monstrous 10,000 print runs and how well they sell. The '93 Finest is riddled with centering and refractor line issues, so when you find a well-centered, refractor line-free version of your guy, it can go for some good coin. Even if it comes out that the print run is double of what has been said all these years, I don't think that affects the value at this point.

[no10pin]

I have long suspected that there are more than 241 copies of these, at least for some of them. I collect George Brett stuff, and there are ALWAYS at least 8-10 93 Refractors for sale.

Just did a search, 10 for sale, and 4 sold in the past 3 months. Pretty much always the case no matter the time period.

[gabballplayer14]

Backdoored

[Archangel1775]

I'm 99.9% positive that this is the PSA Forum Refractor collectors lots. He's the only one that could have this many

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by gabballplayer14

Backdoored

If it's who I think it is, this collection was built by hand.

[mouschi]

All those refractors and not a single T-Rex!

[actionbryan]

Originally Posted by mouschi

All those refractors and not a single T-Rex!

Clicks 'like' button

[gabballplayer14]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

If it's who I think it is, this collection was built by hand.

If so, that is truly impressive.

Seems like a terrible way to sell the entire collection, if in fact they did accumulate these over the years in an honest manner.

With the speculated print run and shadiness that has been uncovered the last couple months (at least, shown in the public eye), I immediately jumped to conclusions of them being fake/backdoored.

[mouschi]

One other important thing to note on these, is the packs with the refractors were easy to spot - the packs themselves were lighter than the others.

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

If it's who I think it is, this collection was built by hand.

PhilG on the PSA Forums, I think he has an account here also, it was a few years back though. Makes sense to send them to PWCC and let the dealers sell them. If 4SC gets involved, watch out.

[Bob Loblaw]

Oh.

My.

God.

This is incredible. I was in college when the 93 Finest set was released and I remember the hype and longing for these cards. I still want a 93 Kruk, Dykstra, and Daulton Refractor. It is amazing that these are together in such quantity, raw, and being sold in such a ridiculous fashion. There is a ton of money to be made here, but I would also expect the market to be flooded soon.

[Shadowsonic2004]

Is this kind of auction something that could destroy the market for the 93 Finest? Flooding the market with 3000 of them all at once.

[RiceBondsMT2Yng]

Originally Posted by mouschi

All those refractors and not a single T-Rex!

That’s actually the base variation. Refractors have a rainbowy glint to them when you hold them up to the light, so...

But to be serious for a sec on the deep dive on Thomas, I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of possibility that, say, 140 copies were submitted at an average rate of just over twice each, given the different eras of grading we’ve already gone through, with varying TPGs being in fashion, the evolution of flips and cases, not to mention the steep premium differences between a single grade or half sub grade. That would still leave 100 copies never graded because they either aren’t worth the trouble, have been locked away raw in a PC somewhere for decades, or have yet to be pulled from the few remaining cases worth of 1993 Finest out there. 241 certainly seems no less plausible to me if there are “only” 300 submissions of a card across TPGs over 28 years.

[vetting82]

What I was trying to determine is if these were were not subbed to to condition issues or if they owner just never bothered. There are some lots up for sale where a handful of them are graded.

[mattglet]

Only 2 Cansecos? Pass.

[mouschi]

Originally Posted by mattglet

Only 2 Cansecos? Pass.

Both with refractor lines, no doubt!

[marinocollector]

I can’t wait until some of the 97 finest die cut gold refractor hoards come to light. Will be interesting the value when people realize there’s 100-150 of each made.

[speedyjg13]

Originally Posted by Shadowsonic2004

Is this kind of auction something that could destroy the market for the 93 Finest? Flooding the market with 3000 of them all at once.

Yes.....wait for the winners of these big lots to relist them as singles (the ones in poor condition) and grade the rest.

[gamboooler]

Here I am just wanting a single Frank Thomas and Greg Maddux PSA 9 lol. This is incredible.

[sbib]

Wow - that is some collection for sure!

[NickM]

Does anyone really still think there were only 241 of each made?

[MFaulkCollector]

Originally Posted by marinocollector

I can’t wait until some of the 97 finest die cut gold refractor hoards come to light. Will be interesting the value when people realize there’s 100-150 of each made.

the CEO personally told me there were only 40 of each........ and as few as 15 each in football....... you need to stop spreading this nonsense

[RiceBondsMT2Yng]

Originally Posted by NickM

Does anyone really still think there were only 241 of each made?

I have no reason to think otherwise but I’m a newb. What should the eBay/card show/PC show off landscape look like instead for the single most sought-after insert from the day it was released, during a year with a weak rookie class, when there are almost 250 copies floating around? Serious question because I didn’t know it was commonly accepted that way way more than 241 were packed out.

[Shadowsonic2004]

Originally Posted by speedyjg13

Yes.....wait for the winners of these big lots to relist them as singles (the ones in poor condition) and grade the rest.

I would be surprised if one person didn't win them all. In the end I think who ever wins them, they will still come out ahead. Odd they went this route to sell them. I would think they would get more from selling them to another big 93 collector. I assume he isn't the only one.

[mouschi]

Originally Posted by RiceBondsMT2Yng

I have no reason to think otherwise but I’m a newb. What should the eBay/card show/PC show off landscape look like instead for the single most sought-after insert from the day it was released, during a year with a weak rookie class, when there are almost 250 copies floating around? Serious question because I didn’t know it was commonly accepted that way way more than 241 were packed out.

I wouldn't say it is commonly accepted, however, it probably doesn't make all that much difference if there are 241 or 2,041 at this point. It is all about availability and desirability of those cards, and not necessarily print runs. We are so used to new cards numbered to /10, /25, /50 and /99 being available at any given time, it makes 241 seem like a massive number, when it really isn't, considering it was from a quarter of a century ago.