2017-18 Flawless the best set since 03-04 Exquisite

nickha2 · 11-06-2018, 05:37 PM

In my opinion the rookie class is as deep if not deeper than the 03-04 class. Not in terms of the top 3-4 being Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Carmello but rather in a depth category.

While they will never beat out Upper Deck exquisite i think in the future this will be the closest set.

rookies · 11-06-2018, 05:43 PM

I would strongly disagree. Also flawless isnt even king of rookies it would be 17/18 NT. That said I dont think theres any chance this class has a potential goat and a top 3 player at a position. Mixed with good hall of famers. Nope.

rogermaris · 11-06-2018, 06:09 PM

Part of what makes the 03-04 exquisite set so legendary is that it was the first ultra-high end set, and marked a major sea change in the hobby at large. The rookie class helps it obviously, but it also fundamentally changed the way people collect cardboard. All those high-end panini sets (flawless,eminence, etc) descended from the 03-04 exquisite set and own their very existence to it.

If you look at all the most legendary sets, they generally have two features. First, they have an iconic rookie card. Second, they revolutionize the hobby as a whole. Some examples:

1952 Topps - Mantle RC and standardized modern card sizes, official start of modern era
1986 Fleer - Jordan RC and ushered in era of modern basketball card collecting
1996-1998 UD/Fleer/Topps sets - Kobe RC/Duncan RC and ushered in era of artificial scarcity
2003-04 Exquisite - Lebron RC and ushered in era of high-end collecting

Flawless may have a great rookie class, but I don't see anything revolutionary about it. If anything, it's the opposite -- a mostly derivative product that does little to push the hobby forward...

Anish · 11-06-2018, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rookies

I would strongly disagree. Also flawless isnt even king of rookies it would be 17/18 NT. That said I dont think theres any chance this class has a potential goat and a top 3 player at a position. Mixed with good hall of famers. Nope.

03-04 is really weak after those 4...but obviously the #1 is far and away better than anyone from this class.

You may well have more HOF's in this class, though. I could certainly see the equivalents of Bosh, Wade, and Melo plus a couple others.

Anish · 11-06-2018, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogermaris

Part of what makes the 03-04 exquisite set so legendary is that it was the first ultra-high end set, and marked a major sea change in the hobby at large. The rookie class helps it obviously, but it also fundamentally changed the way people collect cardboard. All those high-end panini sets (flawless,eminence, etc) descended from the 03-04 exquisite set and own their very existence to it.

If you look at all the most legendary sets, they generally have two features. First, they have an iconic rookie card. Second, they revolutionize the hobby as a whole. Some examples:

1952 Topps - Mantle RC and standardized modern card sizes, official start of modern era
1986 Fleer - Jordan RC and ushered in era of modern basketball card collecting
1996-1998 UD/Fleer/Topps sets - Kobe RC/Duncan RC and ushered in era of artificial scarcity
2003-04 Exquisite - Lebron RC and ushered in era of high-end collecting

Flawless may have a great rookie class, but I don't see anything revolutionary about it. If anything, it's the opposite -- a mostly derivative product that does little to push the hobby forward...

Certainly. If anything, maybe it could have been 12-13 Flawless but most people don't seem to care about the diamonds.

To be fair, the OP may be right in saying that this year's Flawless or NT might be the best high end set since 03-04 Exquisite.

smalltown · 11-06-2018, 06:20 PM

It’s not even the Best Flawless release. 12-13 was the first and hands down best release of Flawless to date.

cowboyzqna · 11-06-2018, 06:30 PM

I like flawless... but not having Jordan is a huge flaw.

Nothing will ever compare to the early exquisite products imho.

ninjacookies · 11-06-2018, 06:35 PM

You're comparing an iconic product that was the first of its kind (first ultra high end) and had Jordan autos and Lebron's top rc....to a 6th year product that generally has the same things its had for the past ....6 years.

Am I missing something here?

mc1 · 11-06-2018, 07:01 PM

Is 1952 Topps Mantle a rookie?

1986-87 Fleer has Jordan but it is also iconic because it is the first mainstream set since 1981-82 Topps and it has more than one rookie class.

2017-18 Flawless Iconic? I don’t think so chief.

yaoming · 11-06-2018, 07:12 PM

Totally disagree with OP on many levels

Talent wise, chances are Tatum and Mitchell wont have as good a career as Melo & D Wade.
No Lebron obviously. Only KD has a chance to be top 10 player of all time since Lebron

Product wise, as many pointed above
Not even the best flawless ( look the same every year)
Not the best panini product ( 12/13 immaculate or 12/13 flawless )
Many many better products since 2003/04 exquisite:
07/08 - exquisites, ultimate, ud black, sp authentic , Topps chrome etc
08/09 - exquisites, ud premier, ultimate, ud black, sp authentic, topps chrome
09/10 exquisites

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yaoming · 11-06-2018, 07:15 PM

Also you can add any other exquisites year despite weaker rookie class, why?
Because of the GOAT auto, kobe, lebron etc

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

hermanotarjeta · 11-06-2018, 07:33 PM

Uh....no.

First year NT, immaculate and flawless are all better sets. As are all the exquisite bk releases minus 06-07. You could even argue first year prizm is better.

drobfan8 · 11-06-2018, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

You're comparing an iconic product that was the first of its kind (first ultra high end) and had Jordan autos and Lebron's top rc....to a 6th year product that generally has the same things its had for the past ....6 years.

Am I missing something here?

You wouldn't say that if you had 10 cases of it though

drobfan8 · 11-06-2018, 07:41 PM

Yeah I don't see it.

You need some innovation and it at LEAST needs to knock off all the other Flawless releases, which it doesn't.

minnesotachill · 11-06-2018, 07:43 PM

what are people on here smoking?

the 2017 draft is NOT good.

Tatum/Mitchell will be good NBA players. The rest are just scrubs.

We're already seeing big declines in prices on many of the overpriced rookies who are not producing and when October 2018 comes around, it's gonna be catastrophic.

ninjacookies · 11-06-2018, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drobfan8

You wouldn't say that if you had 10 cases of it though

LOL.

I have 2 sealed boxes of immaculate fotl, and there's not enough PCP or white lines of coke that could convince me that it's the best product in even the past 2 years.

RogerGodahell · 11-06-2018, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minnesotachill

what are people on here smoking?

the 2017 draft is NOT good.

Tatum/Mitchell will be good NBA players. The rest are just scrubs.

We're already seeing big declines in prices on many of the overpriced rookies who are not producing and when October 2018 comes around, it's gonna be catastrophic.

I wouldn't go that far i thought it was a pretty strong draft class.

VIII · 11-06-2018, 08:04 PM

2009 National Treasures should be in the conversation of revolutionizing the era after. All NT RPA owes a portion of its value to that 2009 release. Even higher end Panini releases such as Flawless and Eminence could not reach that height in terms of secondary market values.

AbraCalabro · 11-06-2018, 08:38 PM

FLAIR SHOWCASE is number 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.

After that you can pick whatever ya'll want to pick.

COMCMax · 11-06-2018, 08:41 PM

Panini whole. High-end model was based off 03-04 Exquisite.

Nope.

liva · 11-07-2018, 01:39 AM

As a RC card collector, best set since 2003-04 Exquisite is for me 2012-13 NT, because of the DOUBLE deep RC class (A.Davis, Irving, Lillard, Leonard, Butler, K.Thompson, Beal, D. Green)... Also, I love the design...

drobfan8 · 11-07-2018, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

LOL.

I have 2 sealed boxes of immaculate fotl, and there's not enough PCP or white lines of coke that could convince me that it's the best product in even the past 2 years.

Ha ha

When are we gonna get a "like" feature on this site.

mc1 · 11-07-2018, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minnesotachill

We're already seeing big declines in prices on many of the overpriced rookies who are not producing and when October 2018 comes around, it's gonna be catastrophic.

Well, it’s already November 2018.

kmunch811 · 11-07-2018, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smalltown

It’s not even the Best Flawless release. 12-13 was the first and hands down best release of Flawless to date.

+1 on this

Bruin7 · 11-07-2018, 01:15 PM

2017/18 National Treasures is the best release overall since Exquisite (having the FOTL fuel makes this product different)

ACS

11-06-2018, 05:43 PM	#2
rookies Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Hawaii Posts: 2,107	I would strongly disagree. Also flawless isnt even king of rookies it would be 17/18 NT. That said I dont think theres any chance this class has a potential goat and a top 3 player at a position. Mixed with good hall of famers. Nope. __________________ BUYING: Lebron James Exquisite auto patch cards, preferably from 03/04, 08/09, and 09/10.

11-06-2018, 06:09 PM	#3
rogermaris Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,200	Part of what makes the 03-04 exquisite set so legendary is that it was the first ultra-high end set, and marked a major sea change in the hobby at large. The rookie class helps it obviously, but it also fundamentally changed the way people collect cardboard. All those high-end panini sets (flawless,eminence, etc) descended from the 03-04 exquisite set and own their very existence to it. If you look at all the most legendary sets, they generally have two features. First, they have an iconic rookie card. Second, they revolutionize the hobby as a whole. Some examples: 1952 Topps - Mantle RC and standardized modern card sizes, official start of modern era 1986 Fleer - Jordan RC and ushered in era of modern basketball card collecting 1996-1998 UD/Fleer/Topps sets - Kobe RC/Duncan RC and ushered in era of artificial scarcity 2003-04 Exquisite - Lebron RC and ushered in era of high-end collecting Flawless may have a great rookie class, but I don't see anything revolutionary about it. If anything, it's the opposite -- a mostly derivative product that does little to push the hobby forward... __________________ IG: @90swax

11-06-2018, 06:20 PM	#6
smalltown Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Canada Posts: 17,243 ifeature	It’s not even the Best Flawless release. 12-13 was the first and hands down best release of Flawless to date. __________________ Collecting: Raptors, Canadian Basketball Players, Vintage & More. PC: https://www.instagram.com/smalltown.cards/

11-06-2018, 06:30 PM	#7
cowboyzqna Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Moundridge KS Posts: 9,265 cowboyzqna	I like flawless... but not having Jordan is a huge flaw. Nothing will ever compare to the early exquisite products imho. __________________ I am a Lucky Man

11-06-2018, 07:41 PM	#14
drobfan8 Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 17,787 drobfan8 drobfan8	Yeah I don't see it. You need some innovation and it at LEAST needs to knock off all the other Flawless releases, which it doesn't. __________________ Wanted, 03/04 Exquisite Base Gold Tim Duncan and 05/06 Exquisite Base Gold /25 Michael Jordan

11-06-2018, 05:37 PM	#1
nickha2 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Lambeau Field Posts: 6,907	2017-18 Flawless the best set since 03-04 Exquisite In my opinion the rookie class is as deep if not deeper than the 03-04 class. Not in terms of the top 3-4 being Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Carmello but rather in a depth category. While they will never beat out Upper Deck exquisite i think in the future this will be the closest set. __________________ We have numbered to 99, numbered to 99. MR. Brandon Cooks, Brandon Cooks...... Brandon Cooks numbered to 99, Brandon Cooks numbered to 99. Sorry had to answer an email right quick.

11-06-2018, 06:35 PM	#8
ninjacookies Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: All the girls see the (boi)/ Look at his flips / Look at his kards / All they say is (oh boi). Posts: 56,433	You're comparing an iconic product that was the first of its kind (first ultra high end) and had Jordan autos and Lebron's top rc....to a 6th year product that generally has the same things its had for the past ....6 years. Am I missing something here?

11-06-2018, 07:01 PM	#9
mc1 Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 11,208	Is 1952 Topps Mantle a rookie? 1986-87 Fleer has Jordan but it is also iconic because it is the first mainstream set since 1981-82 Topps and it has more than one rookie class. 2017-18 Flawless Iconic? I don’t think so chief.

11-06-2018, 07:12 PM	#10
yaoming Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,824	Totally disagree with OP on many levels Talent wise, chances are Tatum and Mitchell wont have as good a career as Melo & D Wade. No Lebron obviously. Only KD has a chance to be top 10 player of all time since Lebron Product wise, as many pointed above Not even the best flawless ( look the same every year) Not the best panini product ( 12/13 immaculate or 12/13 flawless ) Many many better products since 2003/04 exquisite: 07/08 - exquisites, ultimate, ud black, sp authentic , Topps chrome etc 08/09 - exquisites, ud premier, ultimate, ud black, sp authentic, topps chrome 09/10 exquisites Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

11-06-2018, 07:15 PM	#11
yaoming Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,824	Also you can add any other exquisites year despite weaker rookie class, why? Because of the GOAT auto, kobe, lebron etc Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

11-06-2018, 07:33 PM	#12
hermanotarjeta Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 20,504	Uh....no. First year NT, immaculate and flawless are all better sets. As are all the exquisite bk releases minus 06-07. You could even argue first year prizm is better.

11-06-2018, 07:43 PM	#15
minnesotachill Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,883	what are people on here smoking? the 2017 draft is NOT good. Tatum/Mitchell will be good NBA players. The rest are just scrubs. We're already seeing big declines in prices on many of the overpriced rookies who are not producing and when October 2018 comes around, it's gonna be catastrophic.

11-06-2018, 08:04 PM	#18
VIII Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: So Cal Posts: 292	2009 National Treasures should be in the conversation of revolutionizing the era after. All NT RPA owes a portion of its value to that 2009 release. Even higher end Panini releases such as Flawless and Eminence could not reach that height in terms of secondary market values.

11-06-2018, 08:38 PM	#19
AbraCalabro Temporarily Suspended Join Date: May 2013 Location: Believe in Saint Abra. Posts: 10,748	FLAIR SHOWCASE is number 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. After that you can pick whatever ya'll want to pick. __________________ -FREE TRISTAN- LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged - A master class in corruption. NEVER FORGET: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1255123

11-06-2018, 08:41 PM	#20
COMCMax Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 8,912 Maximoose	Panini whole. High-end model was based off 03-04 Exquisite. Nope.

11-07-2018, 01:39 AM	#21
liva Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 603	As a RC card collector, best set since 2003-04 Exquisite is for me 2012-13 NT, because of the DOUBLE deep RC class (A.Davis, Irving, Lillard, Leonard, Butler, K.Thompson, Beal, D. Green)... Also, I love the design...

11-07-2018, 01:15 PM	#25
Bruin7 Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,768	2017/18 National Treasures is the best release overall since Exquisite (having the FOTL fuel makes this product different) ACS __________________ Collecting Transformers & A Christmas Story Cards UCLA CLASS OF 2002