Who were the seconds of Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, and Curry?

[Nomad]

So I have been working on a theory of seconds. Hear me out.

I began following the Pacers back in July, 2022, when Nesmith became Indy's second major acquisition, following that of Haliburton in February. Now Haliburton says he had no pre-knowledge of the trade, but one thing he knew when he touched down in Indy was that he had the keys to the kingdom.

It was the rare situation of an emerging 3rd year player who had not yet established himself as alpha on the team he was on (Sacramento), being converted to alpha overnight on a team that wanted to compete.

The exit of Sabonis was phase 1 of that chess move and the trade of Brogdon that netted Nesmith, part of a "paperclip and piece of string" package (so called at the time) was phase 2. It cleared the board of any vets who might exert a leash and placed complete organizational fealty and trust in Haliburton.

Nesmith was brought in as a kind of sergeant and enforcer to Ty's broad vision role. He was in the trenches with the team in the dog days of Summer League, working with the just-drafted Nembhard to create a defensive reverse-hunt system that has actually turned out pretty well, with Shep (and actually Walk, Math, and Furphy) an evolution of that.

So like that role as second on the team has been a lot of what of what has allowed Hali to plant and tend to the finesse stuff on top. The miracle game winning shot on a tough-nosed, behind the line, hail mary crossing route.

You can see the second relationship in the way that Hali and Nesmith are like equals on the floor and always connect to buck each other up and talk strategy.

Were there players that played a similar role in other noteworthy teams, such as the Jordan Bulls, Kobe Lakers, Curry Warriors, and Lebron teams?

[asujbl]

No one is reading this

[Nomad]

Aw come on, give it a try. Who were the players that Jordan, Kobe, LeBron, and Curry primarily relied upon to run their systems.

Could be more than one, given eras.

[bballautographs]

I honestly am not sure at this point but does anyone actually feel like Nesmith is anything more than a decent role player? He’s not second on Indy in anything (Siakam or Myles definitely get more looks/offensive work) and I’m not sure if this is a massive, long-standing troll attempt that I’m missing. At best he’s the equivalent of Anderson Varejao or Sasha Pavlovic to LBJ circa 2006-07 and won’t ever have real hobby relevancy

[jcardstore]

I’m ashamed to admit I read this whole post

[boxbuster7]

another unnecessary nomad thread

[discodanman45]

As a Pacers fan, this is the most insane thing I have read on the forums in the past month. That is saying something...

[Nomad]

Obviously it reflects my collecting focus but I think it basically holds. I mean, hobby favorite Mathurin was back in the secondary within 10 days of Nesmith returning.

Doesn't mean that Benn may not emerge as an alpha in his own right. He just may have to do it with a another squad, such as an expansion team, or a struggling team, ala Brunson with Knicks or Haliburton with Pacers.

I also realize that the Pacers haven't won anything and Haliburton is probably not even collectors' second choice in his class.

But that's the background of why the question interests me.

Add to that, I am looking for worthy retired and/or veteran players to collect whom I can afford all the flash inserts and parallels of.

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by bballautographs

I honestly am not sure at this point but does anyone actually feel like Nesmith is anything more than a decent role player? He’s not second on Indy in anything (Siakam or Myles definitely get more looks/offensive work) and I’m not sure if this is a massive, long-standing troll attempt that I’m missing. At best he’s the equivalent of Anderson Varejao or Sasha Pavlovic to LBJ circa 2006-07 and won’t ever have real hobby relevancy

We must be watching a different team. There is another game on TNT against Bucks in a few days, if you need familiarity reps.

Pacers will be on a b2b again, so expect another down-to-wire matchup.

Siakam and Myles are both very good at what they do, but Pacers can't pull out a win when Hali is absent and they and Nembhard take charge. Now you could say Nesmith should take over everything, instead of languishing when everyone forgets how to share and pass, but you don't just pull a move like that. Also you just exerted so much effort on defense, last thing you want is the ball every offensive possession.

Could probably analyze the teams in NBA and pull out another dozen players who are seconds. Not all teams have them. But just look for the one who stays in through rotations, points people to places on defense and offense. The one who defends Giannis when the size-appropriate player has a rest.

My point was not to harp on Double A and Ty, but to give an example that could be applied to the greats and those who helped manage their teams.

[kipgen]

Let's examine the 2nd of Lebron in the Cavaliers days. If there's anyone you can point to it's J.R. Smith, who was asked for specifically by Lebron in his proto LeGM days before the Lakers. Lebron asked for JR to be his field general, the high IQ brains of the operation who could also act as a slim but strong enforcer on the court. You can see this in the final seconds of Game 7 of the 2016 Finals, in which Lebron looks to JR for instruction. Knowing now he has nothing left to teach the young pupil, JR looks back at him, giving him a single, knowing nod, as if to say: "You got this, young gun. Now take us home."

Now most casuals at this point will chime in and say "But what about Kyrie Irving!?" This is simply a surface level take I almost don't feel the need to respond to but for the sake of argument I will. Again, let's go back to the 2016 Finals, Game 7. When Kyrie shoots that last three, who's out there with him, directing traffic? That's right: JR.

Now that we're almost ten years out from the Cavs historic run, the prices don't reflect my theory, but that's to be expected: the normies simply don't know the requisite ball to recognize JR's greatness. Floor general. Leader. Commander.

When the Lebron iteration of The Last Dance is released in 2035 and we go back to those years, that's when the slow downturn of Lebron begins and the rise of JR starts. Bookmark this post for later.

[theleica]

Jordan & Kwame Brown

Kobe & Smush Parker

LeBron & Dion Waiters

Curry & JaVale McGee

Haliburton & Nesmith

[Nomad]

Thanks for the info. I know Waiters was integral to the Lebron glory days in LA, but was he really the one?

[theleica]

Originally Posted by Nomad

Thanks for the info. I know Waiters was integral to the Lebron glory days in LA, but was he really the one?

God Bless.

[codered]

When I read your threads I feel like someone needs to do a wellness check on Nesmith so he’s not trapped in a well somewhere, being told to “put the lotion on the skin or else he’s gets the hose again!”……

[Nomad]

Good points all. But again, take whatever example you want. Appreciate the one serious response.

[kipgen]

Originally Posted by Nomad

Good points all. But again, take whatever example you want. Appreciate the one serious response.

No problem

[ninjacookies]

Referencing our previous intellectual discourse on Breaking Bad thuganomics and its implications on modern degen expenditure psyche, I'd liken m'Lord Kneesmiff to the Indonesian 6 on BlezGod's loaded roster.

Sure, she may not command the cumulative lustful eye of onlookers @ this year's Dragon Boat Festival down in lower Mass., but one day some lucky business analyst's going to unearth the dime-like qualities that lie beneath the olive complexion.

To put a Beckett arrow on grit, sacrifice, and loyalty would be unethical and, quite frankly, uncivilized.


Buy the teriyaki dip.

[Nomad]

I see. Front end loader theory.

[ninjacookies]

Peas in a pod.

[Nomad]

Listen carefully to the tape if in doubt. Who's calling the 4 vert blue 32.

[Archangel1775]

Originally Posted by Nomad

Aw come on, give it a try. Who were the players that Jordan, Kobe, LeBron, and Curry primarily relied upon to run their systems.

Could be more than one, given eras.

It's the Head Coaches that relied on the players to run their system.

[Nomad]

True to an extent. Those who want to go that route may want to make a Jenny Bousik play, now that Rick Carslyle is in his self-declared final season.

But I would argue there is a difference from being on the sidelines and being in the middle of the action, particularly on a "free" or "random" team like the Pacers. How many times do we see coaches draw up all kind of stuff and teams on the floor revert to whatever works.

Now some call McConnell coach material. Maybe he is brains, but if he tried to be an enforcer, he would get run over. There is a kind of brain + brawn equation with seconds in today's NBA. Zion would make a great second in the Nesmith mold. Pity he got the big contract and New Orleans could never afford a Haliburton or even a Lillard.

[Archangel1775]

Seemed to go on a tangent here, I'd hope the head coach has a philosophy and playing system/strategy that they've implemented for their team in order to reach the ultimate goal. Otherwise, what's the point, its just a series of pickup games until the schedule is played out.

[duron]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Referencing our previous intellectual discourse on Breaking Bad thuganomics and its implications on modern degen expenditure psyche, I'd liken m'Lord Kneesmiff to the Indonesian 6 on BlezGod's loaded roster.

Sure, she may not command the cumulative lustful eye of onlookers @ this year's Dragon Boat Festival down in lower Mass., but one day some lucky business analyst's going to unearth the dime-like qualities that lie beneath the olive complexion.

To put a Beckett arrow on grit, sacrifice, and loyalty would be unethical and, quite frankly, uncivilized.


Buy the teriyaki dip.

Lmao.

[Nomad]

I think there is a grain of truth in this. And maybe this is why the hobby gets so much wrong. The 10 scale is about eye appeal, looks.

Take Benn. He had his moment, probably still sells for 3-4 times Nesmith, cause he smolders. But I have never seen him evolve into a great distributor or passer.

Obi. Dunk master and former Knick, you could fill whole highlight reels of Ty lobs to him for amazing slams. At the same time, a traffic cone who is struggling to get minutes over Furphy, Walker. Still sells for the same as Nesmith.

Ben Simmons. Hasn't sniffed anything in years, if ever. Sells for 10x Nesmith.

Zion. Ok, bumping the burger boy into the free lunch line one more year, out of sympathy and respect.

But you know, people ultimately remember rings. In 2035. JR Smith that in the bank.