Is Luka Doncic the next James Harden?

[fabiani12333]

He might be, according to NBA writer Bill Reiter: https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/w...himself-apart/

According to Reiter, Luka just completed the 20th-highest single-season usage rate of all time. Of the 19 seasons above him, none ended in an NBA championship. Yes, even his Airness is on the list a couple of times. Here's the list: https://www.basketball-reference.com...ct_season.html

There are some all-time great players on that list. Everyone knows about how MJ was a volume shooter early in his career with the Bulls before Scottie Pippen showed up -- 27.8 shot attempts per game in 1986. Kobe's usage rate naturally shot up after Shaq left. AI was essentially the Sixers only offensive weapon during his prime, leading the league in usage rate 5 of 6 seasons between 1998-99 and 2003-04.

The ball hoggery is partly why NBA league sources are worried Luka may end up being James Harden 2.0 -- his beardless brother from another mother:

Harden and Luka share more than hyperbolic supporters, high-powered offenses and (to date) limited postseason successes. They're also hyper ball-dominant players, and there are corners of the NBA where you can find executives and scouts who worry that Docic's greatness, which will ultimately be judged by playoff success and championships, could go the way that Haden's has gone.

As in Luka Doncic becoming a new version of James Harden.

"I agree," one rival NBA executive told CBS Sports. "When you get a guy like Luka, you can win a lot of regular-season games and some playoff games. But there's a ceiling in terms of outcomes."

It's ironic with Luka facing off against the now 34-year-old Harden in the first round of the 2024 playoffs, that Harden may finally get over the championship hump as a co-star on a star-loaded Clippers team who is starving for its first NBA title -- Harden's usage rate this season was a paltry 20.6% vs a career average of 29.4%.

So what do you guys think? Are Luka bag holders gripping their 2018-19 Luka Prizm base slabs extra tight right now, fearing that he may go ringless for the rest of his career? Or is this like Giannis who is 3rd and 9th on the all-time single-season usage list, and Luka's first championship is just around the corner?

[dengbang]

Thats the issue that comes with averaging close to a triple double while getting tons of touches and averaging a high time of possession. There's a reason KP is thriving on the Celtics and he couldn't fit into the Mavs system. Now that there's another ball dominant player on the Mavs, you can only imagine how that negatively affects other plays performance.

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[asymmetricalbet]

I can't even believe people try to put him in the same breath as Jokic. His usage rate is sky high. Ask any GM in the league, would you rather Jokic's numbers with his usage rate or Doncic's with his usage rate. Without even batting an eye every single one of them will say Jokic. And it's not close.

Plus Jokic clearly elevates his game in the playoffs in MJ like fashion. So far, we have not seen that from Luka.

Lastly, Luka's body language to his teammates is horrible. It's Lebronesque. I can't stand this especially when he's playing like hot garbage himself. Jokic will never berate a teammate like Luka did to Kleber. Never. It's a part of his hidden greatness.

[NYBBFAN]

Luka doesn’t kick people as he finishes his shots. So no.

[oldgoldy97]

So much research. Bravo OP!

[nbahobbyaddict]

Luka would need many years of completely collapsing in the playoffs to be compared to Harden.

[pac213up]

I don't think he has the right talent around him to make that type of comparison yet.

[Bosoxfan5990]

Originally Posted by pac213up

I don't think he has the right talent around him to make that type of comparison yet.

How many years are we going to hear this excuse?

Do people remember the bums LeBron brought to the Finals in his first Cleveland stint?

[tjforce]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

How many years are we going to hear this excuse?

Do people remember the bums LeBron brought to the Finals in his first Cleveland stint?

That argument is getting tougher and tougher to make now that guys like Brunson and KP are winning and thriving, and Kyrie is playing well.

But no, I don't think he's just the next Harden. Too young and too much in his future to denote him that yet. However, I imagine he'll need to make adjustments to his game one way or another to take his teammates to a new level as well as himself.

Also, I've seen Harden listed as a top 35 or so all time player. That's not a bad player to comp to. I imagine Luka lands somewhere above that but below the top tier guys based on his current trajectory. There's a list of guys playing now:
LeBron
Curry
Giannis
Jokic,

who all won MVPs in their first 6 years. Then a list:
-Durant
-Westbrook
-Harden
-Embiid

Who all won their first MVP after year 6. If you ranked those names on the all time list, there is little overlap between the bottom and top list. That should give some context as to where Luka might be headed.

[Ferg1945]

When I mention 55%+ of teams total shots for 2 players in the Luka thread I'm called a broken record and "hater". This is essentially what I'm referring to, I just don't back it up with stats.

Luka has control of the ball so much he's gonna get a frick ton of shots and get assists as well. At the end of the game he might have 36/12/10 and Mavs win... people are overjoyed and claim he is the MVP!! Luka knows how to fill a box score. Add in another guy who takes a ton of shots and that doesn't leave any shots left for the "others".

Give a team with George, Harden, Westbrook, Leonard plus the rest with Coach Lue a full week to rest and prepare for you... they won't let the "others" help... putting more pressure on Luka and Kyrie to be perfect.

Basketball is a team sport... you need the "others" to feel comfortable and know what role they play... if you don't utilize them appropriately it's going to make it that much harder come playoffs.

Remember when Kristaps was the problem? How's he doing in Boston?

Remember when Brunson wasn't enough? How's he doing in New York?

The Mavericks didn't think it was necessary to include the "others" all season and now it bites them come playoffs. We'll point the fingers at the "others" ... they are trash.

[Chris P]

Originally Posted by Ferg1945

When I mention 55%+ of teams total shots for 2 players in the Luka thread I'm called a broken record and "hater". This is essentially what I'm referring to, I just don't back it up with stats.

Luka has control of the ball so much he's gonna get a frick ton of shots and get assists as well. At the end of the game he might have 36/12/10 and Mavs win... people are overjoyed and claim he is the MVP!! Luka knows how to fill a box score. Add in another guy who takes a ton of shots and that doesn't leave any shots left for the "others".

Give a team with George, Harden, Westbrook, Leonard plus the rest with Coach Lue a full week to rest and prepare for you... they won't let the "others" help... putting more pressure on Luka and Kyrie to be perfect.

Basketball is a team sport... you need the "others" to feel comfortable and know what role they play... if you don't utilize them appropriately it's going to make it that much harder come playoffs.

Remember when Kristaps was the problem? How's he doing in Boston?

Remember when Brunson wasn't enough? How's he doing in New York?

The Mavericks didn't think it was necessary to include the "others" all season and now it bites them come playoffs. We'll point the fingers at the "others" ... they are trash.

Porzingis was a problem though...healthwise...the guy could never stay healthy. Also yeah he's playing a great on a pretty damn good Boston team..it's not like the guy went to Washington and was leading them to the playoffs. They made a giant mistake not resigning Brunson for sure.

[hermanotarjeta]

But Luka isn’t a really strange guy who doesn’t talk much.

[Ferg1945]

Originally Posted by Chris P

Porzingis was a problem though...healthwise...the guy could never stay healthy. Also yeah he's playing a great on a pretty damn good Boston team..it's not like the guy went to Washington and was leading them to the playoffs. They made a giant mistake not resigning Brunson for sure.

Washington is trash. One player isn't going to make them a contender. KP could average 37/17/9 with Washington and it wouldn't matter... they didn't have enough talent to compete.

[asujbl]

Luka is done. 25 is the new 35

[cardsin47]

Originally Posted by asujbl

Luka is done. 25 is the new 35

IF he was a rookie, you’d be correct …..

[pac213up]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

How many years are we going to hear this excuse?

Do people remember the bums LeBron brought to the Finals in his first Cleveland stint?

Not sure what his has to do with anything. Luka is not Lebron, very few players are. Lebron was a dominant 2 way player and Top 10 All Time. The comparison is to Harden and the talent he had around him compared to Luka.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by pac213up

Not sure what his has to do with anything. Luka is not Lebron, very few players are. Lebron was a dominant 2 way player and Top 10 All Time. The comparison is to Harden and the talent he had around him compared to Luka.

The east was also a cakewalk during that time.

Harden could have taken the Cavs to the finals those years.

[Bosoxfan5990]

Originally Posted by pac213up

Not sure what his has to do with anything. Luka is not Lebron, very few players are. Lebron was a dominant 2 way player and Top 10 All Time. The comparison is to Harden and the talent he had around him compared to Luka.

Porzingis, Brunson, Kyrie not enough...I guess Luka might only be a 2 or 3 on a Championship squad then.

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

The east was also a cakewalk during that time.

Harden could have taken the Cavs to the finals those years.

Yeah, no.

[pac213up]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

Porzingis, Brunson, Kyrie not enough...I guess Luka might only be a 2 or 3 on a Championship squad then.

No. Porzingis played about half of the games and Brunson and Kyrie are massive defensive liabilities. The ball dominance of guys like Luka and Harden is certainly part of the issue BUT they also only contribute on one side of ball. Winning is hard if you cannot stop the other team from scoring.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

How many years are we going to hear this excuse?

Do people remember the bums LeBron brought to the Finals in his first Cleveland stint?

Luka has already beaten better teams in the Playoffs than kidd/Carter and Billups/Rip who LeBron beat.
Funnily enough, Luka has faced more All NBA talent already than LeBron did in his 8 Finals runs through the Least.

Plenty of teams would have gotten past that "gauntlet" to be swept by the Spurs

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by Chris P

Porzingis was a problem though...healthwise...the guy could never stay healthy. Also yeah he's playing a great on a pretty damn good Boston team..it's not like the guy went to Washington and was leading them to the playoffs. They made a giant mistake not resigning Brunson for sure.

So true.

Zinger played 57 games for Dallas and then 43. On a team that needed 75.

He played 57 for Boston too. And they still dominated.

There are some real morons on this forum that their agendas get in the way of their basketball "brains"

[Round Mound]

Nobody mentions Luka's teammates massive collapse when comes playoffs time? With as many (if not more) touches as in the regular season...

Gafford and Lively, 33min total, 6pts (2/7), 4rbds
Hardaway 6pts
Derrick Jones 0pt

[dani0100]

How many strip clubs does Luka visit per week, on average? I'm doubtful he competes with Harden.

[Diver757]

Sure. Luka is the next James Harden if you give him Embiid, Durant, Kawhi and PG to play with at some point. Dallas roster construction up until now has been suspect at best. That being said, I'm not sure who Luka fits with, probably why I'm not a GM. I thought the Porzingis thing would work out, but you'll never get more than 50+ games a season from him.

[Onepocketj]

I don't think Luka has any desire to spend 500k a year on clothes or multiples of that at strip clubs so no.