WOAT?

[mikejones]

Worst pitcher of all time (Not talking about 1 season and out of the majors guy). I came up with Jose Lima? He started out bad, got good for a few seasons, then went back to being terrible again. He did make an all star in 1999 going 21-10 and a 3.58 era. It's Lima Time! Feel free to disagree.

[JimEd14]

Originally Posted by mikejones

Worst pitcher of all time (Not talking about 1 season and out of the majors guy). I came up with Jose Lima? He started out bad, got good for a few seasons, then went back to being terrible again. He did make an all star in 1999 going 21-10 and a 3.58 era. It's Lima Time! Feel free to disagree.

It's funny you picked Jose Lima, as he has a whole fantasy strategy named after him.

In 1999, Ron Shandler of Basbeall HQ authored an article called the "LIMA" plan ... named after Jose Lima but also an acronym for Low Investment Mound Aces, targeting low cost high skilled pitchers to spend more money on offense. This was during the 2 year stretch where Lima's underlying stats were far better than what ERA might suggest. We can see now that his ERA plus was well over 100 for a few years, but you wouldn't know it looking at his stat line (finished 4th in Cy Young voting one year).

This was in the early stages of going beyond the say 5 or so stat categories everyone was following at the time (avg, HR, RBI, wins and era). Shadler won several expert leagues doing this.

Anyway ......... continue.

[sheetskout]

In our minds (in Wisconsin) it's Jeff Suppan.

Suppan still gets brought up routinely in conversations here.

[ObanMontecristo]

Adam Eaton (the pitcher) is a similar guy for Philly fans- was pretty good in SD, came to Philly and absolutely sucked during their championship run in the late 2000’s

[atk825]

Anthony Young was pretty bad.

[johnlocke36]

Patrick Corbin has to be up there, 1 really good year, 1 oretty good year, massive contract, 1 pretty goof year then basically worst pitcher in baseball for 5 years straight

For qualified starters, he lead the majors for worst xwOBA in 2022, 2023, and 2024. I doubt that has ever been matched (or will ever be matched again except by him this year)

[sbfinley]

Although I believe the question is flawed, as having an extended career in the MLB during any time period requires the player above average skill and ability, I’ll provide a case for Wes Ferrell.

The brother of Hall of Fame catcher Rick Ferrell, Wes pitched 14 seasons for 6 major league franchises. I’ll be kind and start with the good. Ferrell was a 2x All-Star (including the inaugural 1933 game), pitched a no-hitter in 1931, and in 1935 after leading MLB pitchers in wins (and being snubbed from the ASG) Ferrell finished second in MVP voting to Hank Greenberg - well ahead of both Gehrig and Foxx who each turned in stellar seasons of 1.000+ OPS. On the surface it was fine and stellar career.

The bad. Ferrell is has the 22nd highest all-time ERA of any player with at least 150 career victories and the fourth highest career WHIP of players in the same parameters, all while having a career K/9 of barely above 3.0. Ferrell was also a very difficult teammate and a bit of headcase. On multiple occasions he refused to be taken out of games and garnered a handful of suspensions in the process. He was abusive towards both himself and teammates after bad outings , threatening players that made costly errors throughout his career and in one notable moment nearly beat himself to pulp after an extremely rough pitching performance. Through all of these up and downs, Wes Ferrell was regarded highly enough to garner serious Hall of Fame consideration on multiple occasions, Bill James believed that adjusted playing era Ferrell actually performed well above average, Lawerence Ritter ranked him as a top 100 player of all-time in 1981, and Ferrell is a member of the Boston Red Sox Hall of Fame.

Why then do I rank him as the worst pitcher of all time?… Wes Ferrell should have never been a pitcher.

Ranked as one of the best hitting pitchers (Ruth and Ohtani excepted) with the likes of Carl Mays and Ted Lyons, Ferrell was a career .280 hitter with a career OPS of .797. In his near MVP 1935 season he batted .347 with 7 HR and 38 RBI. He was also known to play stellar defense as an emergency outfielder. Most notably, Ferrell (like many of his era) toiled around the high minors after his MLB career was over - except in his case he did so as a position player. Even in his age, Wes was stellar at the plate winning multiple batting titles in the minors. In 1948, at age 40, he hit .425 with 24 HR, 14 Triples, and 119 RBI for the class D Marion Marauders. That’s an amazing stat line even for a lower level player, much less a 40 year old.

Because of this I’ll nominate Wes Ferrell. The man that should have hit every day, not once a week.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

Although I believe the question is flawed, as having an extended career in the MLB during any time period requires the player above average skill and ability, .

This is why I went with Corbin also. I did very well last year (well first half of the yaer) betting under 1/2 hits for some of the truly worst performing hitters in baseabll, Bobby Dalbec, Hedges, Gallo, Abreu and the cash cow Martin Maldonado (who was absurdly valuable because he was one the sox and pinch hit for at crazy hi frequeny so often was getting 2-3 at bats tops in these games for people looking to do this next year).

anyways it only worst for half of the season because the worst hitters are just out of baseball. So you are left with Corbin, his contract is so massive and the Nats don't care about wining games so hes getting paid to just eat innings and be awful. To be fair he does have like a 15 career war so obv he's not the worst of all time, but he still gets my vote

[TBTC Baseball]

Jose Quintana will always be my answer to this question. The SABR-headed idiots on one of the Cubs blogs were drooling over getting him from the Sox because of "muh peripherals...and low cost/control". Meanwhile they gave up Dylan Cease and Eloy.

Chris Archer was another one of their "peripherals" guys they wanted the Cubs to get.

[tkraft24]

I was curious what ChatGPT would come up with and got some interesting names I had forgotten about!


If we go back to MLB pitchers who lasted at least 12 seasons but were statistically poor overall, here are some of the worst based on ERA, WHIP, WAR, and overall effectiveness:
1. Jose Lima (1994–2006, 13 seasons)

Career ERA: 5.26
Career WHIP: 1.38
WAR: 5.5
Why? Had multiple terrible seasons, including 6.65 ERA in 2000. "Lima Time" was fun, but he was not a good pitcher.

2. Mike Morgan (1978–2002, 22 seasons)

Career ERA: 4.23
Career WHIP: 1.36
WAR: 16.5
Why? Played for 12 different teams and had nine seasons with a 5.00+ ERA. Somehow lasted 22 years.

3. LaTroy Hawkins (1995–2015, 21 seasons)

Career ERA: 4.31
Career WHIP: 1.40
WAR: 17.7
Why? Horrific as a starter (6.11 ERA), then became an inconsistent reliever.

4. Liván Hernández (1996–2012, 17 seasons)

Career ERA: 4.44
Career WHIP: 1.44
WAR: 18.3
Why? Led MLB in hits allowed 3 times, had multiple 5.00+ ERA seasons.

5. Jim Deshaies (1984–1995, 12 seasons)

Career ERA: 4.14
Career WHIP: 1.35
WAR: 9.0
Why? Gave up tons of home runs and had an ERA over 4.50 in multiple seasons.

6. Rick Mahler (1979–1991, 14 seasons)

Career ERA: 3.99
Career WHIP: 1.36
WAR: 8.7
Why? A back-end starter who led the league in losses twice and had multiple 5.00+ ERA seasons.

7. Storm Davis (1982–1994, 12 seasons)

Career ERA: 4.02
Career WHIP: 1.37
WAR: 6.7
Why? Had a negative WAR (-0.5) in his final four seasons, showing he was more of an innings-eater than an effective pitcher.

8. Sidney Ponson (1998–2009, 12 seasons)

Career ERA: 5.03
Career WHIP: 1.48
WAR: 10.4
Why? Had multiple 6.00+ ERA seasons and was often among the worst starters in the league.

9. Joe Mays (1999–2006, 12 seasons)

Career ERA: 5.05
Career WHIP: 1.44
WAR: 4.3
Why? Outside of one good year (2001 All-Star), he was consistently bad, with multiple seasons near a 6.00 ERA.

10. Dave Mlicki (1992–2002, 12 seasons)

Career ERA: 4.72
Career WHIP: 1.48
WAR: 4.3
Why? Had five seasons with an ERA over 5.00 and only one year with an ERA below 4.00.

Summary of the Worst of the Worst (12+ seasons)

Jose Lima (5.26 ERA) and Sidney Ponson (5.03 ERA) were among the worst long-tenured starters.
LaTroy Hawkins (4.31 ERA) and Mike Morgan (4.23 ERA) had longevity but were below-average.
Joe Mays and Dave Mlicki were consistently terrible, with multiple 5.00+ ERA seasons.

[jduds]

Randy Lerch had -3.7 WAR over an 11 year career with an ERA+ of 83 He’s gotta be up there for worst post-war pitcher.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[coltsnsox07]

Kevin Brown in the '04 ALCS vs Boston, two starts lasting only 3 1/3 innings total with a 21.60 ERA. He's the reason they broke the curse.
Good thing they didn't have those dumb bullpen games back then.

[no10pin]

Luke Hochevar was well on his way (as a #1 overall draft pick) but he found a late Wade Davis-like renaissance for a couple of years as a releiver.

[tkraft24]

Below are some other solid candidates I had forgotten about that came up under further interrogation with ChatGPT. My vote would probably go to Sidney Ponson.

Russ Ortiz (1998–2010, 12 seasons)

Career Starting ERA: 4.51
Career Starting WHIP: 1.45
WAR: 12.0
Why?
2006: 8.14 ERA over 11 starts.
Led the NL in walks twice, had poor control.
Had a 6.89 ERA in 2007 but still started games.

Ramon Ortiz (1999–2013, 12 seasons)

Career Starting ERA: 4.95
Career Starting WHIP: 1.41
WAR: 9.7
Why?
Allowed way too many home runs (1.4 HR/9 innings).
Multiple 5.00+ ERA seasons and led the league in losses.

Josh Towers (2001–2009, 10 seasons)

Career Starting ERA: 5.02
Career Starting WHIP: 1.37
WAR: 5.0
Why?
Had a 8.42 ERA in 2006 over 12 starts.
One of the least intimidating pitchers—low strikeout rate.
Teams kept giving him chances despite poor results.

Jason Johnson (1997–2008, 11 seasons)

Career Starting ERA: 4.99
Career Starting WHIP: 1.46
WAR: 8.9
Why?
Pitched over 1,300 innings of mediocrity.
Had a 6.35 ERA in 2007 before finally being done.
Rarely had a good season but kept getting starts.

[Cactuspies]

Originally Posted by atk825

Anthony Young was pretty bad.

This was the 1st name I thought of. Just learned he passed away some years ago from brain cancer. that sucks.

the net says he lost 27 straight games where he was entitled to a decision among other things showing how bad or unlucky the guy was

[boxbuster7]

Originally Posted by no10pin

Luke Hochevar was well on his way (as a #1 overall draft pick) but he found a late Wade Davis-like renaissance for a couple of years as a releiver.

I thought him as well

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Taijuan Walker....

[Bosoxfan5990]

Jeremy Bonderman

[rats60]

Jordan Lyles is 72-107 with an ERA of 5.22 and ERA+ of 81 in 14 MLB seasons.

[Rooftop]

Amir Garrett might not be the worst, but he still sucks

[JoshMN]

how about Bobby Witt ... the senior, not legit Bobby Witt

142-157; 4.83 ERA; 1.569 WHIP; 91 ERA+ in 2465 IP

9.53 ERA and a 2.294 WHIP in the postseason

[Bosoxfan5990]

Originally Posted by JoshMN

how about Bobby Witt ... the senior, not legit Bobby Witt

142-157; 4.83 ERA; 1.569 WHIP; 91 ERA+ in 2465 IP

9.53 ERA and a 2.294 WHIP in the postseason

I'll throw Patrick Mahomes Sr. in the mix too.

[msink28]

Yeah, Jordan Lyles might be the winner, he has a career negative bWAR.

[JoshMN]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

I'll throw Patrick Mahomes Sr. in the mix too.

The WOAT pitching staff is really coming together!

We just need a WOAT lineup thread to figure out who will face off against it. I'll tell Mario Mendoza to go get warmed up...

[Hollywood42]

Jordan Lyles is my recent pick. ERA above 5.00 in 9 of his 13 seasons! His agent might be the GOAT though, somehow Lyles has made over $50 million in his career