The Mbappe rookie debate - Poll Results from the most famous soccer card group in FB

[Raj3sh]

The poll is almost a day long and here are the results as of now. I think we have a clear winner.

[jjeanius]

Rookie..? Sure, it’s a rookie. Just don’t call it a “rookie card” since it’s not a card at all.

I can only speak for myself...but I do not collect stickers.

[yiguiri2002]

The answer is pretty obvious. It's the Foot Sticker.

What is Mbappe's card RC though? I, as well as many other collectors that came from other sports, don't collect stickers (unless it is for the WC). So I don't really care what sticker is his RC.

[ThoseBackPages]

exactly. cards, not stickers

[Ianhatcher]

This again? And No, we don't have a clear winner because there is no winner as the poll was setup for multiple selections and it didn't ask the right question. So of course everyone on the sticker side of the argument voted for only the sticker but not the cards and then everyone on the card side said sure the sticker is a rookie.

The question should be "Are the 17/18 Select/Chrome and 18 Prizm considered rookie cards?"

You can't see how many people voted but it seems to me that around 50% of the collectors on the most famous soccer FB group in the world now think the cards that are being questioned are rookies. Considering how new the concept is it's pretty clear this new ideology on rookie cards for soccer has taken hold and it's not looking back.

You basically just showed a large percentage of soccer collectors now view those 3 cards as rookies so thanks for proving our point

[Jeff1970Red]

Jordan stickers are doing pretty well. Give Mbappe a chance.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by Jeff1970Red

Jordan stickers are doing pretty well. Give Mbappe a chance.

that isnt a RC either

[Jeff1970Red]

It’s so funny...this is right, that is wrong...calling collectors out for liking stickers...generalizing that “American” collectors only accept cards as rookies. So silly.

[SnipeLeafs101]

My favourite is when the question is "What is the rookie card" and someone cites the sticker - it's a sticker, not a card.. what is difficult about this .. but sure the sticker can be a rookie sticker.

But the cards will be more desirable in the long run.

Also, it's possible to have more than one rookie card - but it seems the Select / Topps Chrome / Prizm WC are the ones leading the way in desirability for the must-have rookie cards

[Akphillips86]

If you are just collecting, collect what you want. If you are looking for the most valuable long term hold it’s his 17-18 cards. There is absolutely no question.

The influx of money coming into soccer is from people who are not solely soccer collectors and this is highly unlikely to change. They care absolutely zero about stickers.

So we can sit around and argue semantics about what a rookie is, or just simply observe the surging market for Chrome and Prizm and imagine where those prices will eventually settle.

In a nutshell:

First sticker=generally earliest collectible product/moderate value depending on grade to soccer collectors almost exclusively

First card(s)=rookie CARD/moderate to high value depending on product and grade/universal value to card collectors across the board. Also worth noting that prices have increased almost exponentially within a year.


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[SnipeLeafs101]

Originally Posted by Akphillips86

If you are just collecting, collect what you want. If you are looking for the most valuable long term hold it’s his 17-18 cards. There is absolutely no question.

The influx of money coming into soccer is from people who are not solely soccer collectors and this is highly unlikely to change. They care absolutely zero about stickers.

So we can sit around and argue semantics about what a rookie is, or just simply observe the surging market for Chrome and Prizm and imagine where those prices will eventually settle.

In a nutshell:

First sticker=generally earliest collectible product/moderate value depending on grade to soccer collectors almost exclusively

First card(s)=rookie CARD/moderate to high value depending on product and grade/universal value to card collectors across the board. Also worth noting that prices have increased almost exponentially within a year.


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Spot on

[Miskatonicman]

Originally Posted by Akphillips86

If you are just collecting, collect what you want. If you are looking for the most valuable long term hold it’s his 17-18 cards. There is absolutely no question.

The influx of money coming into soccer is from people who are not solely soccer collectors and this is highly unlikely to change. They care absolutely zero about stickers.

So we can sit around and argue semantics about what a rookie is, or just simply observe the surging market for Chrome and Prizm and imagine where those prices will eventually settle.

I agree completely with everything you said here.

I love stickers, they were how I started out collecting way back (Panini Football '78!) and I still dabble in them now and again, but completely for fun. I would never even consider the investment side of things as a factor for any stickers I purchase.

[fadster]

I think you underestimate the size of the established football collecting community. The Foot 16/17 has been doing well long before this most recent Mbappe spike. People are still forgetting that this is a global hobby and different eras and places have used different mediums. You can't tell the story of the hobby with just stickers or just cards. That is why we talk about "rookies" and not "rookie cards" or "rookie stickers", I would consider the second two subsets of the first.

One thing I do find odd though is that this is the only player that has this debate. There are other great players where the rookie happens to be a sticker and the first card doesn't follow for another season or two. Yet I see zero discussion of those which makes me think this isn't really about the hobby as such but rather there is a lot of interest in whatever product can be ripped in the highest quantity for profit.

I collect the other major US sports in varying ways and they all have their own idiosyncrasy's and this is footballs. The funny thing is cards and stickers were the same thing but some issuers (around the 50's) started making specialist albums for people to put their issues into rather than generic albums or scrapbooks.

[Dizz86]

I see it this way.

If you collect rookies (sticker or card), then it is Panini Foot 16/17 sticker.
if you collect only cards, then it might be acceptable to consider Select, Chrome and PRIZM as a rookie 'cards' as there were no cards released in previous season.

If you collect true-rookies (first card/sticker from rookie season to be published), then it is again Panini Foot 16/17 sticker.
If you collect true-rookie cards (first card from rookie season to be published), then it is Panini Adrenalyn Ligue 1 17/18. (published in August 2018). other sets from the same season were published on November-Select, and later (Chrome in spring 2018 and PRIZM in April 2018).


And there is also that card from German Bravo-sport Fussball-Quartett from 2017. Question here is, when it was released if in first half of the year and it shold belong to 2016/17 season or in second half and belongs to 2017/18 season. Guys from the germany you should know, or know some Bravo-sport database to check front pages about the info what month it was released.
Some might argue that it is not panini or topps, but it is card sized item, from company (Bravo) with longer history then topps, and maybe even panini. Tiger woods's rookie is from Sports Illustrated right?

[Ianhatcher]

I see it like this using the more traditional sense of sports card collecting in America.

Rookies- What does that even mean? Rookies what?? What if their face is on a soccer ball first? Is that the rookie?
Rookie Sticker- 16/17 sticker
Rookie Cards- 17/18 Select/Chrome, 18 Prizm, 17/18 Adrenalyn, 17/18 Museum Collection
True Rookie- That term means nothing to me other than a way to demean other collectors or something to put on an Ebay listing to trick buyers who don't know any better. I don't consider the first card with Tom Brady's face on it to be the true rookie it's all cards from that rookie season for example. Published Date means nothing to me.

The real question in my mind would be is the sticker a card so that being said:

if someone would kindly point the part of the package that says card I'd love to see it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-17-Pan...MAAOSwsh5bTiga

At the end of the day we should all respect each others opinion on how we collect even if you disagree. I will even respect your opinion if you want to call a sticker a card but don't tell me how I should view it. That is all I am saying.

It's just two different views on collecting soccer is all. I don't get why people are so butt hurt about it.

[fadster]

I get where you're coming from but the US sports card collecting evolved completely separately from football. The history of the hobby has been shaped by both, iconic issues in both formats. In some periods and some countries the only format used was card, in (most) others it was stickers, up until the 70's the average collector probably couldn't tell the difference between a "sticker" and a "card" as they were almost identical.

If it was the case that all football series had been on card and then the Mbappe came out on some random sticker set out of nowhere then yes I can understand the issue, but it's not, in fact it's the opposite. I've been collecting NFL rookies for over a decade, if one randomly happened to come out on a sticker it'd be rightly ignored because it has no place in the context of the hobby.

The context of football collecting is that Panini have been putting out "stickers" since the early 60's, before them it was Nannina and VAV. Before them all the German manufacturer issues like Bergmann, Greiling, Konig made albums for their card/sticker hybrid issues to be stuck into. The South Americans have always loved albums and almost everything from the 30's onwards was meant to be stuck in. The UK on the other hand has a tradition of cigarette cards going back to Victorian times, along with freebies from comics for boys from the 20's to 60's. At that point A&BC and Barratt came along with cards before FKS and Panini then came along with stickers in the 70's. And now we have Panini and Topps dipping their toes in with chrome, select and prizm etc, and somehow we have to rewrite all that?

No one is saying you have to collect everything, I think it's more a recognition that this isn't quite the same as US sports and there is room for new collectors and old to co-exist if they understand where each other is coming from. I've always been a rookie collector (both football and NFL) but one thing modern cards has allowed be to do is collect some cool auto, holo and numbered cards. Likewise I hope there are going to be some new guys who after getting their hands on a Haaland,Sancho or Mbappe rookie, then go back looking for Zidane, Henry, Ronaldo and Ronaldinho etc. Hopefully after finding what is out there they'd be open to dipping their toes into "stickers" as they're still pretty cool and in hand in a PSA slab they'd realise that there isn't really much difference with a "card".

[k13]

Lot of those Facebook groups have international members so they'll vote stickers.
People who have stickers want stickers to be "rookies"

But in a few years no one will care about Mbappe anyway

[Ianhatcher]

I understand the history but hobbies evolve and it is the same as US sports from a card perspective because many just dismiss any stickers and focus on the cards. The stickers are great and if that is what you are into rock that but that just isn't for me. I collect cards but that isn't to say I dismiss any value or the history of the rookie stickers. If I was to buy an early Zidane I know the sticker is considered the rookie but I would want the earliest card regardless of when it came out because I collect cards. That's how I choose to view the hobby.

In the 80's there were NFL stickers and probably are now but no one calls them rookie cards here.

Yes, by my way of collecting I decide to re-write all that and that doesn't dismiss your way of collecting. You do you and I'll do me but you are still promoting your ideology without acknowledging the way others have decided to view the hobby but then say we need to co-exist and I don't get that. As it becomes more mainstream in the US people will use traditional American sports collecting practices to apply to how they view and collect cards.

I'll give another example, Luka Doncic. He had stickers I believe and certainly cards when he played for Real Madrid in Europe but ask most American collectors what his Rookie Card is and they will say any card form the 2018/19 Season such as the Prizm and Donruss Optic sets when he joined the Mavs that were US releases. That doesn't dismiss those other cards as rookies it is is just means there are different schools of thought.

I think this whole situation has brought many collectors in the US into the realm of sticker collecting and that is also good for the hobby. We aren't re-writing the hobby for you we are just applying how we collect and view sports cards to the hobby for us.

[Raj3sh]

Originally Posted by Ianhatcher

I understand the history but hobbies evolve and it is the same as US sports from a card perspective because many just dismiss any stickers and focus on the cards. The stickers are great and if that is what you are into rock that but that just isn't for me. I collect cards but that isn't to say I dismiss any value or the history of the rookie stickers. If I was to buy an early Zidane I know the sticker is considered the rookie but I would want the earliest card regardless of when it came out because I collect cards. That's how I choose to view the hobby.

In the 80's there were NFL stickers and probably are now but no one calls them rookie cards here.

Yes, by my way of collecting I decide to re-write all that and that doesn't dismiss your way of collecting. You do you and I'll do me but you are still promoting your ideology without acknowledging the way others have decided to view the hobby but then say we need to co-exist and I don't get that. As it becomes more mainstream in the US people will use traditional American sports collecting practices to apply to how they view and collect cards.

I'll give another example, Luka Doncic. He had stickers I believe and certainly cards when he played for Real Madrid in Europe but ask most American collectors what his Rookie Card is and they will say any card form the 2018/19 Season such as the Prizm and Donruss Optic sets when he joined the Mavs that were US releases. That doesn't dismiss those other cards as rookies it is is just means there are different schools of thought.

I think this whole situation has brought many collectors in the US into the realm of sticker collecting and that is also good for the hobby. We aren't re-writing the hobby for you we are just applying how we collect and view sports cards to the hobby for us.

Collecting can be nostalgia for most of us. People who have collected stickers in their childhood will always prefer that. And throughout world wide apart from america and maybe china and australia rest all collects stickers.

I prefer cards too, but for me the rookie is always the first card or sticker of the player.

Also in football the player can be at the club from his young age, its not like there is a draft and players have to go through schools or universities.

[Akphillips86]

Originally Posted by Ianhatcher

I understand the history but hobbies evolve and it is the same as US sports from a card perspective because many just dismiss any stickers and focus on the cards. The stickers are great and if that is what you are into rock that but that just isn't for me. I collect cards but that isn't to say I dismiss any value or the history of the rookie stickers. If I was to buy an early Zidane I know the sticker is considered the rookie but I would want the earliest card regardless of when it came out because I collect cards. That's how I choose to view the hobby.

In the 80's there were NFL stickers and probably are now but no one calls them rookie cards here.

Yes, by my way of collecting I decide to re-write all that and that doesn't dismiss your way of collecting. You do you and I'll do me but you are still promoting your ideology without acknowledging the way others have decided to view the hobby but then say we need to co-exist and I don't get that. As it becomes more mainstream in the US people will use traditional American sports collecting practices to apply to how they view and collect cards.

I'll give another example, Luka Doncic. He had stickers I believe and certainly cards when he played for Real Madrid in Europe but ask most American collectors what his Rookie Card is and they will say any card form the 2018/19 Season such as the Prizm and Donruss Optic sets when he joined the Mavs that were US releases. That doesn't dismiss those other cards as rookies it is is just means there are different schools of thought.

I think this whole situation has brought many collectors in the US into the realm of sticker collecting and that is also good for the hobby. We aren't re-writing the hobby for you we are just applying how we collect and view sports cards to the hobby for us.

You stated this far more eloquently than I did. I doubt collectors minds will be changed either way because that’s what they collect. When it comes to value, it becomes a little less subjective. Speculative? Absolutely. I just personally wouldn’t bank on tides turning back to stickers for long term hold value. In fairness, I think both will continue to appreciate in value for the mega stars of soccer, I just think that cards have much more room to grow. Yes, sticker collectors and card collectors can coexist


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[Ianhatcher]

Originally Posted by Raj3sh

Collecting can be nostalgia for most of us. People who have collected stickers in their childhood will always prefer that. And throughout world wide apart from america and maybe china and australia rest all collects stickers.

I prefer cards too, but for me the rookie is always the first card or sticker of the player.

Also in football the player can be at the club from his young age, its not like there is a draft and players have to go through schools or universities.

I get that and respect the nostalgia and this history. You feel like someone is poo pooing on your childhood and that is never pleasant. That happens in a lot of hobbies. I recall the rage of Star Wars fans when the prequels came out It's just a cultural difference is all and to be quite honest I have learned quite a lot from collectors here about the history of the hobby and that is immensely helpful and interesting too.

I actually had a ton of soccer stickers growing up in the 80s that I can't find for the life of me and some might have been worth a lot. Probably in a box at my parents somewhere...

[fadster]

Of course the hobby evolves but that doesn't require rewriting history. For example why don't we ignore cigarette cards in baseball collecting? They were gradually phased out and haven't been a viable format for decades. Is the t206 Wagner no longer his rookie but rather some trading card decades later? The cigarette card has far less in common than trading cards and stickers that were the same thing before splitting off in the 70's. What happen 20 years from now if digital cards have replaced physical formats as the main release format, do we rewrite everything again, the Messi rookie is suddenly a Panini blockchain from 2020?

The Doncic is a good example of context. In NBA collecting the rookie is, barring exceptional circumstances, from their first professional NBA year, that's why the UD Euroleague cards are an interesting oddity but not rookies just as college cards aren't rookies. If he was a footballer I would say his UD Euroleague cards are his rookie but he isn't and it's certainly not something I would ever argue for on the basketball board. I own the prizm and have never thought about getting the UD.

[Ianhatcher]

Originally Posted by fadster

Of course the hobby evolves but that doesn't require rewriting history. For example why don't we ignore cigarette cards in baseball collecting? They were gradually phased out and haven't been a viable format for decades. Is the t206 Wagner no longer his rookie but rather some trading card decades later? The cigarette card has far less in common than trading cards and stickers that were the same thing before splitting off in the 70's. What happen 20 years from now if digital cards have replaced physical formats as the main release format, do we rewrite everything again, the Messi rookie is suddenly a Panini blockchain from 2020?

The Doncic is a good example of context. In NBA collecting the rookie is, barring exceptional circumstances, from their first professional NBA year, that's why the UD Euroleague cards are an interesting oddity but not rookies just as college cards aren't rookies. If he was a footballer I would say his UD Euroleague cards are his rookie but he isn't and it's certainly not something I would ever argue for on the basketball board. I own the prizm and have never thought about getting the UD.

Because they are called cigarette CARDS not cigarette stickers. Digital is a whole nother argument but as a collector of physical cards I would not consider them really anything but if someone wants to collect them they can knock themselves out. Just another subset of sports collecting to me.

That doesn't make any sense. You apply one set of logic to basketball and another to soccer? The UD Euroleague is considered a professional sports team not a college team so by your own ideology of how stickers/cards work in soccer you shouldn't view the Prizm as a rookie card. it doesn't seem like you remain consistent across the two hobbies as you adhere to the American way of collecting for basketball yet the let's say Euro way of collecting for soccer.

[fadster]

Originally Posted by Ianhatcher

Because they are called cigarette CARDS not cigarette stickers. Digital is a whole nother argument but as a collector of physical cards I would not consider them really anything but if someone wants to collect them they can knock themselves out. Just another subset of sports collecting to me.

That doesn't make any sense. You apply one set of logic to basketball and another to soccer? The UD Euroleague is considered a professional sports team not a college team so by your own ideology of how stickers/cards work in soccer you shouldn't view the Prizm as a rookie card. it doesn't seem like you remain consistent across the two hobbies as you adhere to the American way of collecting for basketball yet the let's say Euro way of collecting for soccer.

You're missing the point on cigarette cards if you think it's about adding the word "card" on to the end. I'm talking about formats, their place in history and evolution.

And yes that is exactly the point I am making. Basketball collecting is basketball, football is football and baseball is baseball. Baseball has special rules for rookie, "1st" cards and prospect cards and exceptions for cigarette, mini and acetate cards. Basketball and NFL have rules on excluding college cards and USFL/ABA teams but execptions for tall boys, felt backs(!!!), acetate and mini size cards. Football has it's cards, discs, stickers. There is no one set of rules that would work for all sports, you have to understand the context and history of each.

[Jeff1970Red]

The Mbappe talk it just the tip of the iceberg...you guys are going to loose your sh*t arguing about Haaland. Can’t wait.