1961 Hank Aaron and 1964 Willie Mays Authenticity

[joeytortellini]

Hey yall,
Just purchased a 1961 Topps Hank Aaron 415 and what was supposed to be a PSA 5 1967 Topps Willie Mays 200 according to seller listing and the photo. Seller told me the latter did 'not come with a COA', which I took to mean the piece of paper that says Certificate Of Authenticity, but he claimed, in conversation while cards were in transit, just meant it came raw and ungraded. So... pretty shifty and lame.


Since that I had that negative interaction while the cards were in transit, I am feeling wary about them upon arrival. I have no idea how to gauge the authenticity of vintage, so I'm looking for any opinions people might have about whether they look real or counterfeited.

If you judge them real and are interested, feel free to PM me. Even if authentic, I kind of want to either get rid of these cards or trade them for Aaron/Mays cards from the same era, just to get rid of the bad taste from this transaction.


https://imgur.com/a/0ngEWiO

[rms13]

I would only buy raw vintage from reputable sellers that deal in vintage cards. The only raw vintage I've been buying are from Greg Morris Cards because I've been told here that they are a very reputable dealer of vintage.

If the seller sold the Mays as a PSA graded card and now says it's a raw card than I would return both for a refund because that seller is obviously not reputable.

[Snakeonia]

Cards look authentic

As far as grades go

Mays might get a 4 approx 80-110
Aaron might get a 2.5-3 80-100

But will cost you $ and months to grade (if you choose psa)

Raw value each probably around 70-90 for the pair

Id file a return on the guy. Curious what this COA is your talking about. Its not in a psa slab and I dont think its nice enough to a 5 personally and might get a MC mark but usually psa is a bit understanding on 67s. Im just one opinion so take it with a grain of salt.


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[hxcmilkshake]

I would measure them before you do anything if they are short send em back

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[joeytortellini]

Originally Posted by Snakeonia

Cards look authentic

As far as grades go

Mays might get a 4 approx 80-110
Aaron might get a 2.5-3 80-100

But will cost you $ and months to grade (if you choose psa)

Raw value each probably around 70-90 for the pair

Id file a return on the guy. Curious what this COA is your talking about. Its not in a psa slab and I dont think its nice enough to a 5 personally and might get a MC mark but usually psa is a bit understanding on 67s. Im just one opinion so take it with a grain of salt.


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Definitely not grading these. I just checked and it seems that the COA is something that is specifically for Autograph verifications as a slip of paper. I think there's a small chance the seller really just honestly referred to the paper that's in the graded card holder as a COA, but I doubt it.

Seller had the listing up with the graded card in display, was asking $180 for PSA 5. Would not have paid more than 80 for the raw Mays-agree it's not a 5, I actually think that the Aaron would be EXMT+ if it weren't for the off centering, marks, and print defects(the corners are the sharpest I've ever seen on a raw vintage)

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by joeytortellini

Seller had the listing up with the graded card in display, was asking $180 for PSA 5. Would not have paid more than 80 for the raw Mays-agree it's not a 5, I actually think that the Aaron would be EXMT+ if it weren't for the off centering, marks, and print defects(the corners are the sharpest I've ever seen on a raw vintage)

That Mays also may get a MC qualifier from the looks of it. The back of the card is cut off where his stats are. The cards both look authentic, but will not grade well with the centering.

I see that you are new to vintage and I think you are using your modern grading criteria for vintage. Sharp corners are nice, but when it comes to vintage, eye-appeal is king. A lot of vintage collectors, including myself, would rather have a lower graded centered card.

[Snakeonia]

So your saying he had a COA that it was an authentic card . Maybe im too programmed that when I hear COA i think autograph. And these are not that either.


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[Chicosbailbonds]

The Aaron looks trimmed, the Mays may be also.

[discodanman45]

Originally Posted by Chicosbailbonds

The Aaron looks trimmed, the Mays may be also.

Why does it look trimmed? Just because it has sharp edges and corners? The amount of borders of both cards look very consistent for those years. Without having the cards in hand it is impossible from those pictures to tell if the cards are trimmed or not.

My advice to the buyer is to get other common vintage cards of the same years. You then can compare sizes and look at edges through a loupe. Knowing card stock is very important as well for identifying fakes. The more vintage cards you hold the easier it is to identify issues.

[Chicosbailbonds]

Originally Posted by discodanman45

Why does it look trimmed? Just because it has sharp edges and corners? The amount of borders of both cards look very consistent for those years. Without having the cards in hand it is impossible from those pictures to tell if the cards are trimmed or not.

My advice to the buyer is to get other common vintage cards of the same years. You then can compare sizes and look at edges through a loupe. Knowing card stock is very important as well for identifying fakes. The more vintage cards you hold the easier it is to identify issues.

The bottom left of the Aaron just doesn't look right to me. Agree that you really have to see them in person.