Top 50 Players in bWAR NOT in HOF

[hammertime]

Obviously lots of talk about the HOF recently, I thought some people might like to see the all-time top players in bWAR who are NOT currently in the HOF. WAR totals in parentheses after the name. I included current players or recently retired players who aren't eligible yet, although I didn't count them towards the 50.

1. Barry Bonds (162.8)
2. Roger Clemens (139.2)
3. Alex Rodriguez (117.4)
Albert Pujols (101.2) not eligible yet
Mike Trout (87.5) not eligible yet
Justin Verlander (81.7) not eligible yet
Clayton Kershaw (80.9) not eligible yet
4. Pete Rose (79.6)
5. Curt Schilling (79.5)
Zack Greinke (77.4) not eligible yet
6. Jim McCormick (76.2)
Max Scherzer (75.6) not eligible yet
Mookie Betts (75.2) not eligible yet
7. Bill Dahlen (75.2)
8. Lou Whitaker (75.1)
9. Rafael Palmeiro (71.9)
10. Bobby Grich (71.1)
11. Carlos Beltran (70.0)
12. Rick Reuschel (69.5)
13. Manny Ramirez (69.3)
14. Robinson Cano (68.7)
15. Kenny Lofton (68.4)
16. Graig Nettles (68.0)
17. Kevin Brown (67.8)
Miguel Cabrera (67.2) not eligible yet
18. Dwight Evans (67.2)
19. Tony Mullane (66.6)
20. Buddy Bell (66.3)
21. Luis Tiant (66.1)
22. Willie Randolph (65.9)
23. Reggie Smith (64.6)
23. Chase Utley (64.6)
Freddie Freeman (64.2) not eligible yet
Paul Goldschmidt (63.8) not eligible yet
Joey Votto (63.6) not eligible yet
25. Ken Boyer (62.8)
26. Andruw Jones (62.7)
27. David Cone (62.3)
Aaron Judge (62.3) not eligible yet
28. Joe Jackson (62.2)
28. Mark McGwire (62.2)
Manny Machado (61.7) not eligible yet
30. Jack Glasscock (61.6)
30. Tommy John (61.6)
32. Sal Bando (61.5)
33. Tommy Bond (60.9)
34. Willie Davis (60.8)
35. Charlie Buffinton (60.7)
36. Gary Sheffield (60.5)
37. Jim Edmonds (60.4)
37. Keith Hernandez (60.4)
39. Bobby Abreu (60.2)
39. Andy Pettite (60.2)
41. Wes Ferrell (60.1)
42. Bob Caruthers (59.5)
43. Sherry Magee (59.4)
44. Mark Buerhle (59.0)
44. Eddie Cicotte (59.0)
44. Cole Hamels (59.0)
44. Urban Shocker (59.0)
Evan Longoria (58.9) not eligible yet
48. Bret Saberhagen (58.9)
49. Darrell Evans (58.7)
50. Jack Quinn (58.6)
50. Sammy Sosa (58.6)

[Handsome Wes]

#JusticeForJimMcCormick

[Bosoxfan5990]

Schilling is a jerk, but he should be in.

[Handsome Wes]

My unpopular position is that there are players on this list who should NOT be in the Hall of Fame (and I'm not talking about the scandal-ridden ones) and plenty who are not on this list who should be in.

[mfw13]

The problem with using WAR is that pre-2000 it's defensive numbers are highly questionable since batted ball data didn't really exist.

It's only since every game started being televised that batted ball data become reliable.

And there's also the cognitive dissonance of how bad defenders are treated via DH's (i.e. people who are so bad at defense that they aren't even allowed to play in the field).

[clocsta2323]

crazy mike trout probably wont get 100 WAR. Never would have imagined.

[erock28]

Originally Posted by Handsome Wes

#JusticeForJimMcCormick

Shame he wasn't very durable. I mean he only got to 600 IP in a season once.

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

Schilling is a jerk, but he should be in.

Same with Jeff Kent.

[Absknicks]

Originally Posted by mfw13

The problem with using WAR is that pre-2000 it's defensive numbers are highly questionable since batted ball data didn't really exist.

It's only since every game started being televised that batted ball data become reliable.

And there's also the cognitive dissonance of how bad defenders are treated via DH's (i.e. people who are so bad at defense that they aren't even allowed to play in the field).

pre-2000? The defensive component of WAR is complete nonsense to this day.

[johnlocke36]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

Schilling is a jerk, but he should be in.

not only does he lead this list (for non steroid users) but he's also first all time for SP for post seasons Win Probability Added (2nd behind rivera) and arguably the best (modern at least) post season pitcher of all time. Should be enough to offset being a republican.

[scotthenrichs]

Roiders :
1. Barry Bonds (162.8)
2. Roger Clemens (139.2)
3. Alex Rodriguez (117.4)
9. Rafael Palmeiro (71.9)
13. Manny Ramirez (69.3)
14. Robinson Cano (68.7)
28. Mark McGwire (62.2)
36. Gary Sheffield (60.5)
50. Sammy Sosa (58.6)

Not Eligible :
Albert Pujols (101.2) not eligible yet
Mike Trout (87.5) not eligible yet
Justin Verlander (81.7) not eligible yet
Clayton Kershaw (80.9) not eligible yet
Zack Greinke (77.4) not eligible yet
Max Scherzer (75.6) not eligible yet
Mookie Betts (75.2) not eligible yet
Miguel Cabrera (67.2) not eligible yet
Freddie Freeman (64.2) not eligible yet
Paul Goldschmidt (63.8) not eligible yet
Joey Votto (63.6) not eligible yet
Aaron Judge (62.3) not eligible yet
Manny Machado (61.7) not eligible yet
Evan Longoria (58.9) not eligible yet

Gambling :
4. Pete Rose (79.6)
28. Joe Jackson (62.2)

Probably should be in?
5. Curt Schilling (79.5)
8. Lou Whitaker (75.1)
11. Carlos Beltran (70.0)
15. Kenny Lofton (68.4)
26. Andruw Jones (62.7)

I dunno, they had their chance, too long ago
6. Jim McCormick (76.2)
7. Bill Dahlen (75.2)
10. Bobby Grich (71.1)
19. Tony Mullane (66.6)
20. Buddy Bell (66.3)
21. Luis Tiant (66.1)
30. Jack Glasscock (61.6)
33. Tommy Bond (60.9)
34. Willie Davis (60.8)
35. Charlie Buffinton (60.7)
41. Wes Ferrell (60.1)
42. Bob Caruthers (59.5)
43. Sherry Magee (59.4)
44. Eddie Cicotte (59.0)
44. Urban Shocker (59.0)
50. Jack Quinn (58.6)

Hall of Good :
12. Rick Reuschel (69.5)
16. Graig Nettles (68.0)
17. Kevin Brown (67.8)
18. Dwight Evans (67.2)
22. Willie Randolph (65.9)
23. Reggie Smith (64.6)
23. Chase Utley (64.6)
25. Ken Boyer (62.8)
27. David Cone (62.3)
30. Tommy John (61.6)
32. Sal Bando (61.5)
37. Jim Edmonds (60.4)
37. Keith Hernandez (60.4)
39. Bobby Abreu (60.2)
39. Andy Pettite (60.2)
44. Mark Buerhle (59.0)
44. Cole Hamels (59.0)
48. Bret Saberhagen (58.9)
49. Darrell Evans (58.7)

[Handsome Wes]

:::Pushes glasses up nose::

44. Eddie Cicotte (59.0) should be classified under the gambling category, as he was part of the Eight Men Out (recently pardoned!)

[PuddleMonkey]

Lou Whitaker? HOF? Be serious, c'mon.

[awz50]

Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey

Lou Whitaker? HOF? Be serious, c'mon.

He seriously should be in

[awz50]

Rick Reuschel has a better case then some are willing to admit. A couple more should be in before him, but he is right behind them

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by scotthenrichs

Roiders :
1. Barry Bonds (162.8)
2. Roger Clemens (139.2)
3. Alex Rodriguez (117.4)
9. Rafael Palmeiro (71.9)
13. Manny Ramirez (69.3)
14. Robinson Cano (68.7)
28. Mark McGwire (62.2)
36. Gary Sheffield (60.5)
50. Sammy Sosa (58.6)

Not Eligible :
Albert Pujols (101.2) not eligible yet
Mike Trout (87.5) not eligible yet
Justin Verlander (81.7) not eligible yet
Clayton Kershaw (80.9) not eligible yet
Zack Greinke (77.4) not eligible yet
Max Scherzer (75.6) not eligible yet
Mookie Betts (75.2) not eligible yet
Miguel Cabrera (67.2) not eligible yet
Freddie Freeman (64.2) not eligible yet
Paul Goldschmidt (63.8) not eligible yet
Joey Votto (63.6) not eligible yet
Aaron Judge (62.3) not eligible yet
Manny Machado (61.7) not eligible yet
Evan Longoria (58.9) not eligible yet

Gambling :
4. Pete Rose (79.6)
28. Joe Jackson (62.2)

Probably should be in?
5. Curt Schilling (79.5)
8. Lou Whitaker (75.1)
11. Carlos Beltran (70.0)
15. Kenny Lofton (68.4)
26. Andruw Jones (62.7)

I dunno, they had their chance, too long ago
6. Jim McCormick (76.2)
7. Bill Dahlen (75.2)
10. Bobby Grich (71.1)
19. Tony Mullane (66.6)
20. Buddy Bell (66.3)
21. Luis Tiant (66.1)
30. Jack Glasscock (61.6)
33. Tommy Bond (60.9)
34. Willie Davis (60.8)
35. Charlie Buffinton (60.7)
41. Wes Ferrell (60.1)
42. Bob Caruthers (59.5)
43. Sherry Magee (59.4)
44. Eddie Cicotte (59.0)
44. Urban Shocker (59.0)
50. Jack Quinn (58.6)

Hall of Good :
12. Rick Reuschel (69.5)
16. Graig Nettles (68.0)
17. Kevin Brown (67.8)
18. Dwight Evans (67.2)
22. Willie Randolph (65.9)
23. Reggie Smith (64.6)
23. Chase Utley (64.6)
25. Ken Boyer (62.8)
27. David Cone (62.3)
30. Tommy John (61.6)
32. Sal Bando (61.5)
37. Jim Edmonds (60.4)
37. Keith Hernandez (60.4)
39. Bobby Abreu (60.2)
39. Andy Pettite (60.2)
44. Mark Buerhle (59.0)
44. Cole Hamels (59.0)
48. Bret Saberhagen (58.9)
49. Darrell Evans (58.7)

Dwight Evans, Jim Edmonds, and Keith Hernandez should all be in for their defense......all won at least 8 Gold Gloves and were above average offensive players as well.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Dwight Evans, Jim Edmonds, and Keith Hernandez should all be in for their defense......all won at least 8 Gold Gloves and were above average offensive players as well.

Gold Gloves are a poor metric for defensive value. Derek Jeter is the worst defensive SS and he won 4 Gold Gloves. They are voted on and often given to players because of they are good offensively. Rafael Palmeiro was given a Gold Glove in 1999 when he only played 28 games at 1B and DHed for 135. Willie Randolph was the equal of Hernandez and much better than Evans and Edmonds. He is more deserving than either of them.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by rats60

Gold Gloves are a poor metric for defensive value. Derek Jeter is the worst defensive SS and he won 4 Gold Gloves. They are voted on and often given to players because of they are good offensively. Rafael Palmeiro was given a Gold Glove in 1999 when he only played 28 games at 1B and DHed for 135. Willie Randolph was the equal of Hernandez and much better than Evans and Edmonds. He is more deserving than either of them.

What are you basing that off of? Hernandez was a phenomenal defender.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

What are you basing that off of? Hernandez was a phenomenal defender.

Rats can answer for himself but Randolph was also a phenomenal defender. His problem is his career overlapped with some of the greatest defensive 2nd basemen of all time in the AL: Bobby Grich, Frank White, and Lou Whitaker.

Frankly, the fact they all played against one another is one of the reasons none of them have made the Hall yet.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by johnlocke36

not only does he lead this list (for non steroid users) but he's also first all time for SP for post seasons Win Probability Added (2nd behind rivera) and arguably the best (modern at least) post season pitcher of all time. Should be enough to offset being a republican.

The irony is nearly all of the Hall of Famers are Republicans.

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Originally Posted by awz50

Rick Reuschel has a better case then some are willing to admit. A couple more should be in before him, but he is right behind them

Other than looking at war numbers, there is no way anyone growing up in the 70's and 80's who watched him pitch, thought that they were looking at a Hall of Famer. No one. He was a good pitcher, not great. This is why war shouldn't be the be all end all.

[Siberian13]

You can put not eligible next to Bonds and all the other juicers.

[88horsepower]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

You can put not eligible next to Bonds and all the other juicers.

Except they are technically eligible. Some of those guys are on the Contemporary Ballot this season.

[rfgilles]

Originally Posted by Skipscards

Rats can answer for himself but Randolph was also a phenomenal defender. His problem is his career overlapped with some of the greatest defensive 2nd basemen of all time in the AL: Bobby Grich, Frank White, and Lou Whitaker.

Frankly, the fact they all played against one another is one of the reasons none of them have made the Hall yet.

That's great but how can you say he was the equal of Hernandez, who played a different position no less, particularly when you are pointing out the problems with Gold Gloves. Hernandez is widely considered the greatest fielding first basemen of all-time.

[Skipscards]

Originally Posted by rfgilles

That's great but how can you say he was the equal of Hernandez, who played a different position no less, particularly when you are pointing out the problems with Gold Gloves. Hernandez is widely considered the greatest fielding first basemen of all-time.

I didn’t say any of that. I never even mentioned Hernandez or Gold Gloves.