PWCC has listed a BGS type II star company Jordan

Starman1975 · 09-23-2016, 06:25 AM

PWCC has listed a BGS 9.5 type II Jordan card number 6 from the Jordan 10-card set. This card should not have been graded by BGS as it is a type II and not part of the original run . If you compare this card to other number six cards on eBay you can clearly see the difference in the white piping around the frame of the picture. I believe that BGS was trained by Steve Taft to decipher between original cards and type II. It is only recently that I have noticed these type II cards slipping through at BGS. To me this is quite disconcerting...

6celtics33 · 09-23-2016, 07:39 AM

I have reached out to Brent on this matter. Mistakes happen.

I only pull for · 09-23-2016, 07:41 AM

BGS needs to tighten things up around there.

6celtics33 · 09-23-2016, 07:51 AM

It's worth noting that these type II's that are the issue only affects the 1985-86 2nd series run. It is a sheet of 100 cards. These are:

#95-172 78 cards
Green Celtics 8 cards
Jordan 10 card set: 10 cards
Best of New: 4 cards

Notables include Jordan 117 2nd year, ewing's rookie, Stockton's 2nd year, Drexler, and both Celtics sets. Also the Best of New and Jordan 10 card sets.

This is not a new occurrence. I believe this is normal quality control error mistakes. Panini just packed out a flawless card in immaculate. Stuff happens. The great thing about star is that it has loyal and knowledgeable people that are adding a layer of protection so people won't spend $ on bad cards. I know grading is supposed to be the end all be all but that is a foolish notion to be honest, thinking that these humans will never make mistakes. PSA made the same mistakes and folded on Star. I do not want to see the same thing happen with BGS.

So nobody run out and panic sell your 101. That has nothing to do with any other sets or cards from star.

If anyone wants to purchase a star card and is concerned about its authenticity or has any any questions in general, feel free to pm.

Springerj23 · 09-23-2016, 08:27 AM

Most of these look to be coming from Higbees. He has a multitude of Star cards for sale on EBay. Many of which are out of the TYPE II lot.
Not all, but several.

6celtics33 · 09-23-2016, 08:31 AM

Can you post examples? I've never known of Higbees to sell type 2 cards.

Springerj23 · 09-23-2016, 08:39 AM

He has so many cards listed, easier just to search his listings on EBay. Not all of his cards are out the TYPE II lot numbers, but a bunch are. His super high grade stuff of many of these, Ewings, Jordan lot, etc. are extremely suspect in my opinion. The backs of the cards are the big flag to me.

6celtics33 · 09-23-2016, 08:41 AM

I think you're confusing type 2 with the issues discussed in the other thread.

Starman1975 · 09-23-2016, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6celtics33

It's worth noting that these type II's that are the issue only affects the 1985-86 2nd series run. It is a sheet of 100 cards. These are:

#95-172 78 cards
Green Celtics 8 cards
Jordan 10 card set: 10 cards
Best of New: 4 cards

Notables include Jordan 117 2nd year, ewing's rookie, Stockton's 2nd year, Drexler, and both Celtics sets. Also the Best of New and Jordan 10 card sets.

This is not a new occurrence. I believe this is normal quality control error mistakes. Panini just packed out a flawless card in immaculate. Stuff happens. The great thing about star is that it has loyal and knowledgeable people that are adding a layer of protection so people won't spend $ on bad cards. I know grading is supposed to be the end all be all but that is a foolish notion to be honest, thinking that these humans will never make mistakes. PSA made the same mistakes and folded on Star. I do not want to see the same thing happen with BGS.

So nobody run out and panic sell your 101. That has nothing to do with any other sets or cards from star.

If anyone wants to purchase a star card and is concerned about its authenticity or has any any questions in general, feel free to pm.

I agree 6celtic33 mostly star collectors are loyal to the product and loyal to the integrity aspect of collecting these cards. As long as BGS does not keep making these mistakes we should all be fine. Thank you for clarifying the issue in regard to which cards have type II versions. Sometimes I take for granted that people know that stuff when in reality a lot of the new star collectors may not.

Springerj23 · 09-23-2016, 08:54 AM

The type II's are known for the lack of rear color bleed, which all of his seem to not have. Now if its because he is trimming them, then I can see that. I have a hard time believing Beckett is grading all of these trimmed cards. They wouldn't be measuring up. One of the easiest and set in stone things for graders to check. Just my humble opinion of course.
I voiced in the other thread, that I would be very suspect of any of the 85-86 cards, type II lot #'s or not that have fleece white backs on them. The real ones do not, period. I guess that is the point I am trying to make. Type II's also have fleece white backs with no bleed.

6celtics33 · 09-23-2016, 09:01 AM

You're right about that springer with the color bleed but there are other ways to tell too and all I can say is I've never seen a type 2 from him.

Springerj23 · 09-23-2016, 09:09 AM

That's good to know. Something is just off with some of his cards and that is alarming. The fact that he has a uncut sheet of 86 Fleer for sale just screams Shop At Home. That also is very bothersome.

Starman1975 · 09-23-2016, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Springerj23

Most of these look to be coming from Higbees. He has a multitude of Star cards for sale on EBay. Many of which are out of the TYPE II lot.
Not all, but several.

Please cite examples if this is the case. I haven't noticed any but I'm not saying you are mistaken.

6celtics33 · 09-23-2016, 09:13 AM

Also 85-86 is typically cut a fraction wide from the factory which should help you understand why there is no bleed on some of those cards. They are originals though.

Starman1975 · 09-23-2016, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Springerj23

Most of these look to be coming from Higbees. He has a multitude of Star cards for sale on EBay. Many of which are out of the TYPE II lot.
Not all, but several.

Because it has been listed by pwcc we will never know the consignor's true identity

6celtics33 · 09-23-2016, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Springerj23

That's good to know. Something is just off with some of his cards and that is alarming. The fact that he has a uncut sheet of 86 Fleer for sale just screams Shop At Home. That also is very bothersome.

I think I see where you are going but I've never seen him sell a reprint or shop at home or type 2 card.

Springerj23 · 09-23-2016, 09:29 AM

Not trying to go there, just stating facts. You can form your own opinions. I wish no ill will on anybody. I just don't want to see someone spend big money on some stuff that just seems off to me. Several have posted in the other thread they have bought from him with no issues. That is great. I just know from what I have seen of some of his star cards, and now SSA?!?!, I will be staying away.

Starman1975 · 09-23-2016, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6celtics33

I think I see where you are going but I've never seen him sell a reprint or shop at home or type 2 card.

BGS has to increase their card size standards for star so that trimmed cards don't get through

I only pull for · 09-23-2016, 09:44 AM

Lets not act like Higbees hasn't earned the reputation he seems to have earned himself. I think it has been proven that he is trimming cards, and now when other problems pop up, it is reasonable for folks to believe he is the guilty party even with type II's.

Higbees had a chance to prove us all wrong on the other thread, and he was unable to do so. He has earned his reputation.

6celtics33 · 09-23-2016, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Springerj23

Not trying to go there, just stating facts. You can form your own opinions. I wish no ill will on anybody. I just don't want to see someone spend big money on some stuff that just seems off to me. Several have posted in the other thread they have bought from him with no issues. That is great. I just know from what I have seen of some of his star cards, and now SSA?!?!, I will be staying away.

I'm trying to stick to facts. I have addressed my issues with Higbee directly. what I'm saying is that the cards are original as far as what I have seen. I am saying nothing more or less and I'm definitely not endorsing him.

6celtics33 · 09-23-2016, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I only pull for

Lets not act like Higbees hasn't earned the reputation he seems to have earned himself. I think it has been proven that he is trimming cards, and now when other problems pop up, it is reasonable for folks to believe he is the guilty party even with type II's.

Higbees had a chance to prove us all wrong on the other thread, and he was unable to do so. It's also a known fact that he uses PWCC, so I can understand why many would think the Type II Jordan listed with PWCC would be his. He has earned his reputation with his basement grading and trimming.

I get it too but there are enough factual issues to focus on rather than inventing new ones to lay at his feet. I think we're getting off message is all.

I only pull for · 09-23-2016, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6celtics33

I get it too but there enough factual issues to focus on rather than inventing new ones to lay at his feet. I think we're getting off message is all.

I completely understand what you are saying. Higbees has no reason to grade types II's with all of the Star cards he owns, and I doubt the type II with PWCC is his.
I'm just saying it is understandable that people would believe it is with all of his other wrong doings.
BGS was probably doing a bulk submission and didn't catch that the card was a type II, mistakes happen to all of us.
Higbees shouldn't be surprised when things like this pop up and people believe he is the guilty party now though.

JMANIA · 09-23-2016, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Springerj23

Most of these look to be coming from Higbees. He has a multitude of Star cards for sale on EBay. Many of which are out of the TYPE II lot.
Not all, but several.

I have followed since BGS was grading Star Co. cards. I have not seen Higbees with one Type II card. BGS cards are serial numbered, possible to try and figure out whose card it is if a seller on ebay has a similar one in number and they actually sumitted it for grading and did not buy it. Even if this one was Higbees, which I doubt, he would have made a harmless mistake by buying a bad card. I am not saying it is his though and would think it is not. Authenticity is different from the other issue.

JMANIA · 09-23-2016, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Springerj23

That's good to know. Something is just off with some of his cards and that is alarming. The fact that he has a uncut sheet of 86 Fleer for sale just screams Shop At Home. That also is very bothersome.

Not seen Higbees with one Shop at Home card ever.

JMANIA · 09-23-2016, 10:44 AM

Be fair and objective, why point one card out and accuse someone that likely did not submit it for grading? How come these are okay?

1986 Star 2 Michael Jordan Rookie RC BGS 8 5 NM MT Collegiate Stats Bulls | eBay

1986 Star Michael Jordan 9 Michael Jordan Chicago Bulls Rookie Card BGS BCCG 10 | eBay

09-23-2016, 06:25 AM	#1
Starman1975 Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 50	PWCC has listed a BGS type II star company Jordan PWCC has listed a BGS 9.5 type II Jordan card number 6 from the Jordan 10-card set. This card should not have been graded by BGS as it is a type II and not part of the original run . If you compare this card to other number six cards on eBay you can clearly see the difference in the white piping around the frame of the picture. I believe that BGS was trained by Steve Taft to decipher between original cards and type II. It is only recently that I have noticed these type II cards slipping through at BGS. To me this is quite disconcerting... Attached Thumbnails

09-23-2016, 07:41 AM	#3
I only pull for Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,460	BGS needs to tighten things up around there. Last edited by I only pull for; 09-27-2016 at 09:49 PM.

09-23-2016, 08:54 AM	#10
Springerj23 Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Newburgh, IN Posts: 1,499	The type II's are known for the lack of rear color bleed, which all of his seem to not have. Now if its because he is trimming them, then I can see that. I have a hard time believing Beckett is grading all of these trimmed cards. They wouldn't be measuring up. One of the easiest and set in stone things for graders to check. Just my humble opinion of course. I voiced in the other thread, that I would be very suspect of any of the 85-86 cards, type II lot #'s or not that have fleece white backs on them. The real ones do not, period. I guess that is the point I am trying to make. Type II's also have fleece white backs with no bleed. Last edited by Springerj23; 09-23-2016 at 08:57 AM.

09-23-2016, 09:44 AM	#19
I only pull for Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,460	Lets not act like Higbees hasn't earned the reputation he seems to have earned himself. I think it has been proven that he is trimming cards, and now when other problems pop up, it is reasonable for folks to believe he is the guilty party even with type II's. Higbees had a chance to prove us all wrong on the other thread, and he was unable to do so. He has earned his reputation. Last edited by I only pull for; 09-27-2016 at 09:51 PM. Reason: once again I dont see where they cant respond

09-23-2016, 07:39 AM	#2
6celtics33 Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 8,264	I have reached out to Brent on this matter. Mistakes happen.

09-23-2016, 07:51 AM	#4
6celtics33 Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 8,264	It's worth noting that these type II's that are the issue only affects the 1985-86 2nd series run. It is a sheet of 100 cards. These are: #95-172 78 cards Green Celtics 8 cards Jordan 10 card set: 10 cards Best of New: 4 cards Notables include Jordan 117 2nd year, ewing's rookie, Stockton's 2nd year, Drexler, and both Celtics sets. Also the Best of New and Jordan 10 card sets. This is not a new occurrence. I believe this is normal quality control error mistakes. Panini just packed out a flawless card in immaculate. Stuff happens. The great thing about star is that it has loyal and knowledgeable people that are adding a layer of protection so people won't spend $ on bad cards. I know grading is supposed to be the end all be all but that is a foolish notion to be honest, thinking that these humans will never make mistakes. PSA made the same mistakes and folded on Star. I do not want to see the same thing happen with BGS. So nobody run out and panic sell your 101. That has nothing to do with any other sets or cards from star. If anyone wants to purchase a star card and is concerned about its authenticity or has any any questions in general, feel free to pm.

09-23-2016, 08:27 AM	#5
Springerj23 Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Newburgh, IN Posts: 1,499	Most of these look to be coming from Higbees. He has a multitude of Star cards for sale on EBay. Many of which are out of the TYPE II lot. Not all, but several.

09-23-2016, 08:31 AM	#6
6celtics33 Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 8,264	Can you post examples? I've never known of Higbees to sell type 2 cards.

09-23-2016, 08:39 AM	#7
Springerj23 Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Newburgh, IN Posts: 1,499	He has so many cards listed, easier just to search his listings on EBay. Not all of his cards are out the TYPE II lot numbers, but a bunch are. His super high grade stuff of many of these, Ewings, Jordan lot, etc. are extremely suspect in my opinion. The backs of the cards are the big flag to me.

09-23-2016, 08:41 AM	#8
6celtics33 Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 8,264	I think you're confusing type 2 with the issues discussed in the other thread.

09-23-2016, 09:01 AM	#11
6celtics33 Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 8,264	You're right about that springer with the color bleed but there are other ways to tell too and all I can say is I've never seen a type 2 from him.

09-23-2016, 09:09 AM	#12
Springerj23 Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Newburgh, IN Posts: 1,499	That's good to know. Something is just off with some of his cards and that is alarming. The fact that he has a uncut sheet of 86 Fleer for sale just screams Shop At Home. That also is very bothersome.

09-23-2016, 09:13 AM	#14
6celtics33 Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 8,264	Also 85-86 is typically cut a fraction wide from the factory which should help you understand why there is no bleed on some of those cards. They are originals though.

09-23-2016, 09:29 AM	#17
Springerj23 Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Newburgh, IN Posts: 1,499	Not trying to go there, just stating facts. You can form your own opinions. I wish no ill will on anybody. I just don't want to see someone spend big money on some stuff that just seems off to me. Several have posted in the other thread they have bought from him with no issues. That is great. I just know from what I have seen of some of his star cards, and now SSA?!?!, I will be staying away.

09-23-2016, 10:44 AM	#25
JMANIA Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 539	Be fair and objective, why point one card out and accuse someone that likely did not submit it for grading? How come these are okay? 1986 Star 2 Michael Jordan Rookie RC BGS 8 5 NM MT Collegiate Stats Bulls \| eBay 1986 Star Michael Jordan 9 Michael Jordan Chicago Bulls Rookie Card BGS BCCG 10 \| eBay