Your Thoughts - PSA vs. BGS Grading
 

I am curious to know everyone thoughts on the following:


1) Do you prefer your cards Raw, PSA (Graded), or BGS (Graded)?

2) If you prefer graded cards, why do you prefer PSA or BGS?

3) Which grading card company do you think is tougher to get high grades? (Note, I assume here equivalency MINT = BGS 9 /PSA 9 and GEM MINT BGS 9.5 and PSA 10)

4) Assuming equal grades on same cards, which graded card (PSA or BGS) do you think carries more value?


Looking forward to others opinions. Also, I assume this topic has been done before, so please share any old links if you know the location.

Thanks! Jon

I will share my opinion. Just an opinion.

1. I prefer BGS 9 or above. However, I always look the card over because sometimes the card is overgraded or undergraded. I have a lot of raw cards, too.

2. I like the BGS holders better. I also like sub grades.

3. BGS. I have seen way more PSA 10s that I disagreed with vs high subs BGS 9.5.

4. BGS for me. However, it seems like PSA 10s are selling for more and more and carry a premium.

This is just a preference opinion. I have PSA graded cards as well.

I prefer BGS over PSA for 3 main reasons:

1) BGS cards carry subgrades. I especially prefer BGS for cards that have borders like Topps Finest and Topps Chrome, as I prefer a centering subgrade on bordered cards.

2) I like BGS cased cards more than PSA. Ive seen a guy on YouTube open a PSA case, place another card in there, and then snap it back together without the case showing any evidence of it being tampered. That was just too scary for me, especially on a card like 86 Fleer MJ, this would certainly be an issue for me, though I heard the newer PSA cases are more tamper resistant. I will never understand why PSA 10 Fleer MJs command a premium over a BGS 9.5. I know its a registry thing, but that's just irrelevant to me.

3) BGS grades Star cards and PSA does not. Hats off to BGS for this. Maybe someday PSA will get with the program and grade these historically significant cards. But at this time they do not. And that's a darn shame.

With that being said, if I find a card I really need in BGS 9.5, I will buy a PSA 10 on certain cards. Especially cards without borders, that I would normally prefer a centering subgrade on.

:coffee:

BGS for autographs and PSA for everything else. Done and done.

Like mentioned above - I prefer BGS cases and like the sub grades (gives you a better idea of how they came to the grade).

That said I'll still buy PSA 10 as they hold premium value do to the registry.

I wouldn't let the feces throwing chimps at BGS touch anything vintage. For the new shiny cards BGS

[QUOTE=smalltown;10229198]Like mentioned above - I prefer BGS cases and like the sub grades (gives you a better idea of how they came to the grade).

That said I'll still buy PSA 10 as they hold premium value do to the registry.[/QUOTE]
Great stuff. Also what do you mean by the registry? Don't both PSA and Beckett have pop reports?

I find Becketts pop reports more detailed and easier to navigate.

Psa has a registry where people compete with each other for the top spots and their gpa. There are many sets a card could be part of for example the fleer MJ. It could be the fleer set, it could be the top 200 card set, it could be the Jordan master set, etc. I admit I don't know all the details either, just that people love it. The whole idea doesn't appeal to me but it is why certain cards that are tough grades fetch high dollars such as Johnny Moore fleer Psa 10 selling for over $10,000. Is the card worth that? HELL no! But it the price you pay based on scarcity to complete your set.

I prefer BGS for all the reasons stated above. Everyone can find examples in each companies holders to say hey look they did a bad job on that. That's why you have to just look yourself and use it as a starting point. I know bgs has over graded stuff and made mistakes just like Psa. But you won't find over graded stuff in my collection. Just pay attention to what you buy.

Anything vintage I'll get it in Psa 9,Psa 10.If I really really want the card I will get It in raw or psa 9,psa 10 or bgs 9.5 , bgs 10.For some particular reason I will not buy a Bgs 9 at all, especially if it has sub of 8.5 anywhere, I guess I could just bust it out the case..:(

I've seen too much monkey business from PSA lately to trust them at all.

[QUOTE=the mesiah;10229410]For some particular reason I will not buy a Bgs 9 at all, especially if it has sub of 8.5 anywhere, I guess I could just bust it out the case..:([/QUOTE]

It's the silver tag. :D

[QUOTE=smalltown;10229447]It's the silver tag. :D[/QUOTE]

It's got to be that, it just looks so bad to me ,

Graded

- no preference for company (like PSA and BGS equally) PSA has better manufactured cases (BGS crack/chip easily) while BGS has more aesthetic cases.

1.psa
2.sgc





3.bgs

Wow, I see what you mean. $10,000 for a card that costs $2.19 raw, for a player who averaged 9.4 PPG throughout his career. Is there any other background on that specific card? Doesnt seem too scarce since PSA graded 1302 cards, BGS graded 294. However, it does appear to have the fewest PSA 10s relative to other players in the set.

This sale must be the highlight of Johnny Moore's career, lol.

[url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Fleer-Basketball-76-Johnny-Moore-San-Antonio-Spurs-PSA-10-GEM-MINT-/381416838353?hash=item58ce3714d1%3Ag%3ACjYAAOSwiLdWBXtD&nma=true&si=hTGCzxI5KQVbJMLdFlBvHPjUS2Y%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557]1986 Fleer Basketball #76 Johnny Moore San Antonio Spurs PSA 10 GEM MINT[/url]

[QUOTE=6celtics33;10229369]Psa has a registry where people compete with each other for the top spots and their gpa. There are many sets a card could be part of for example the fleer MJ. It could be the fleer set, it could be the top 200 card set, it could be the Jordan master set, etc. I admit I don't know all the details either, just that people love it. The whole idea doesn't appeal to me but it is why certain cards that are tough grades fetch high dollars such as Johnny Moore fleer Psa 10 selling for over $10,000. Is the card worth that? HELL no! But it the price you pay based on scarcity to complete your set.

I prefer BGS for all the reasons stated above. Everyone can find examples in each companies holders to say hey look they did a bad job on that. That's why you have to just look yourself and use it as a starting point. I know bgs has over graded stuff and made mistakes just like Psa. But you won't find over graded stuff in my collection. Just pay attention to what you buy.[/QUOTE]

A general observation (not meant to be exhaustive) comparing the POP reports on a few high end cards on PSA.com and Beckett.com....it does seem like:

[B]-Vintage Cards (i.e. 1986 Fleer)[/B] - Are harder to get PSA 10 vs. a BGS 9.5
[B]-Recent Cards (i.e. 1996-Present) [/B]- Harder to get BGS 9/9.5 vs. PSA 9/10

I am a Recent Card collector. My general observation over the past 15 years of collecting is that I feel as I have experienced that a grade of PSA 9/10 are not as difficult to get as BGS 9/9.5. This is based on POP data, eBay sales, and specific card condition comparison. Also, with Beckett having the halfpoint overall grades of 8.5, this makes general sense that there would be less MINTs of BGS vs. PSA since in simple theory, BGS 8.5 or 9 = PSA 9, assuming both graders are consistent.

Accordingly, my pecking order (from Most Preferred, to Least Preferred) is:
1) BGS 10
2) BGS 9.5
3) BGS 9
4) PSA 9
5) Raw
6) BGS/PSA 8.5





[QUOTE=jlzinck;10229211]I wouldn't let the feces throwing chimps at BGS touch anything vintage. For the new shiny cards BGS[/QUOTE]

I used to be a Beckett guy and thought their way of grading was the best, i.e. Subgrades and auto grading. I the realized auto grading added nothing except another dollar going to Beckett. Subgrades, which seem cool in theory, but they just expose more inconsistentcy to the grading process. The final straw is the fact, vintage sucks with and everything has a different color label.

My submissions go to SGC now. They have great holders, more consistent grading, and cheaper faster service. The big problem is they are number three in market share, so their cards don't sell as well (apart from early vintage).

PSA is the king. They have well over 50% market share, most robust registry, and best web site. If the decision is strictly a business one and not a collector one, PSA is really the only choice. You will almost always get more on the sale. For those that BGS sells for more, it is only a matter of time that PSA will catch up. BGS seems to be cornering themselves into color auto cards that people flip.

I prefer both BGS and SGC over PSA.
I simply hate PSAs flimsy thin cases and that cards seem to rattle around in their cases more in my experience.

[QUOTE=IndySportsCards;10229412]I've seen too much monkey business from PSA lately to trust them at all.[/QUOTE]

Care to elaborate? Every time I feel like I want to go with PSA, someting comes along and I get turned off. 4-sharp Ripken returns, Dmitri Young collection, Probstein "bumps", OPC hockey return from another big dog.

I prefer raw cards. From a strictly aesthetic standpoint, I find slabbed cards clunky and unappealing. Especially if the card isn't a perfect 10. It would drive me crazy to see anything less than a 10 sub grade on a card in my collection, and I don't sell, so there's really no reason for me to ever have one of my cards graded. But really, it just comes down to looks for me and I think raw cards look much better than graded cards.

On average I've found bgs 9.5s to look better than psa 10s. My guess is folks try to hit the jackpot with a bgs pristine grade if they think there is a chance.

I think there are certainly pros and cons and even more so depending on the era of the card. PSA is awful slow, so BGS' guaranteed turnaround can always be a tiebreaker. But I recently took cards out of BGS RAW review semi-rigid sleeves and sent them to PSA instead. Results were very interesting... you can find more here:

[url=http://cardagents.com/bgs-raw-review-vs-psa-results]BGS Raw Review vs. PSA results - Card Agents[/url]

Cheers,
Patrick
Card Agents

Great info. It seems to be the theme that PSA is preferred for vintage grading. Also with Beckett raw card, I also expect the final grade to be 0.5 to 1.0 less than the raw card grade since the review is more high level than actual grading.

I am curious, what was wrong with the Trout to warrant a PSA 8? From the one photo, the centering, corners, and edges look good. Was there surface damage?

Hope this isn't 'hijacking' the thread, but I've never sent in any cards to be graded, but have heard of possibly getting in on a group submission.

How would I go about that?

Thanks for the info, and sorry for going off-topic, kinda...sorta.

[QUOTE=Cervantes;10296081]Hope this isn't 'hijacking' the thread, but I've never sent in any cards to be graded, but have heard of possibly getting in on a group submission.

How would I go about that?

Thanks for the info, and sorry for going off-topic, kinda...sorta.[/QUOTE]

Sent you a PM.