Buying a Raw Card
 

Hi all--

I am somewhat vintage game. I am attempting to build a nice collection of White Sox & Bears HOFs. At the National, I purchased a raw Piedmont T206 Eddie Collins from a vendor who dealt exclusively with vintage (won't disclose name until getting feedback on here). Card looked to be in pretty good condition. He said he thought it was a minimum SGC 3 so paid accordingly.

I just got the card back from SGC and it came back "AUTHENTIC Minimum Size Not Met". This means evidence of trimming/altering, right? Is this common with these cards? Is it a "buyer beware" thing when buying raw? I am bit peeved but maybe I shouldn't be?

"AUTHENTIC Minimum Size Not Met" doesn't mean trimming. It means that they think it was cut short at the factory. When buying raw cards, it is useful to measure them and make sure they meet the size requirements. A T206 should measure 1-7/16" x 2-5/8".

Don't pay graded prices for cards is the lesson here. If you wanted a SGC graded card, just buy one except if you have experience with these cards.

I have a few Min Size not Met cards from SGC that I know for a fact aren't trimmed.

[QUOTE=discodanman45;19999659]"AUTHENTIC Minimum Size Not Met" doesn't mean trimming. It means that they think it was cut short at the factory. When buying raw cards, it is useful to measure them and make sure they meet the size requirements. A T206 should measure 1-7/16" x 2-5/8".

Don't pay graded prices for cards is the lesson here. If you wanted a SGC graded card, just buy one except if you have experience with these cards.

I have a few Min Size not Met cards from SGC that I know for a fact aren't trimmed.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. Definitely a lesson learned. I am guessing some vendors measure them, know they aren't the minimum size and that's why they choose not to grade them. Fear that was the case here. Still a beautiful card, but yeah, value with the Min Size Not Met definitely quite a bit lower than what I paid. It's for the PC though so maybe I'll upgrade it at some point in the future.

[QUOTE=HoggieHunches;19999663]Thank you. Definitely a lesson learned. I am guessing some vendors measure them, know they aren't the minimum size and that's why they choose not to grade them. Fear that was the case here. Still a beautiful card, but yeah, value with the Min Size Not Met definitely quite a bit lower than what I paid. It's for the PC though so maybe I'll upgrade it at some point in the future.[/QUOTE]

Some people don't like grading and just sell raw cards. If the dealer had a mix of raw and graded, they could know it was minimum sized. Once a card gets over $500, buying graded is recommended unless you have experience and can get the card below the cost of the grade you think it will receive.

You could try to send it to SGC again to see if they give it a grade. They aren't consistent with minimum size. CGC is another alternative. They have nice slabs and have holders designed for T206 cards. :)!

Odds are the dealer knew. These vintage dealers aren't clueless, and sadly a lot are not of the highest character

One good sign, if the dealer may have known, the table is littered with graded cards. If the dealer thought a T206 of Collins would be a 3, then they would have had it graded. Then again if the dealer had strictly raw cards he could be legit. However, raw dealers are getting scarce.

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[QUOTE=bkspoilers;19999857]One good sign, if the dealer may have known, the table is littered with graded cards. If the dealer thought a T206 of Collins would be a 3, then they would have had it graded. Then again if the dealer had strictly raw cards he could be legit. However, raw dealers are getting scarce.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Was definitely a mix of raw and graded. He said something along the lines of buying it off someone at the show. Who knows if that was legit or not.

Are there any legit raw vintage dealers you guys would recommend?

[QUOTE=rolltide01;20033769]Are there any legit raw vintage dealers you guys would recommend?[/QUOTE]

The best cards I have got have been from individuals and COMC.

The best eBay seller, which I buy on their personal site, is The Battersbox. They have accurately described condition for me and the prices are BIN, which I prefer. Greg Morris gets kind of insane for raw cards in their auctions.

[QUOTE=discodanman45;20033799]The best cards I have got have been from individuals and COMC.

[B]The best eBay seller, which I buy on their personal site, is The Battersbox[/B]. They have accurately described condition for me and the prices are BIN, which I prefer. Greg Morris gets kind of insane for raw cards in their auctions.[/QUOTE]

I would agree with this.

[LIST=1][*]Previously submitted.[*]Came back MIN SIZE.[*]Sold raw.[/LIST]
How undersize is it? If close, like a 16th, try again. SGC charges the grading fee for that MIN SIZE result, don't they? Try PSA. The N6 MIN SIZE result from PSA does not get charged the grading fee.

But don't be shocked if/when PSA says EVID TRIM and that will cost you the grading fee.

Good luck. Resell it, disclose the size, the MIN SIZE result, you'll lose a little but sometimes I find it best to get away from a card that reminds me I'm not happy with it.

[QUOTE=towerymt;20034117]How undersize is it? If close, like a 16th, try again. SGC charges the grading fee for that MIN SIZE result, don't they? Try PSA. The N6 MIN SIZE result from PSA does not get charged the grading fee.[/QUOTE]

SGC will charge the fee, but they put the card in a slab with that information on the label.

What does PSA N6 mean, that the card is just too small but wasn't trimmed? I subbed a couple Hank Aarons a few years ago (nothing big, a 1968 and a 1973) that are probably 5-6 ish and they came back N6 so I've just held onto them. I don't think I have the little pieces of paper anymore so if I wanted to sell them I would just put that in the title?

[QUOTE=spiffycards;20037440]What does PSA N6 mean, that the card is just too small but wasn't trimmed? I subbed a couple Hank Aarons a few years ago (nothing big, a 1968 and a 1973) that are probably 5-6 ish and they came back N6 so I've just held onto them. I don't think I have the little pieces of paper anymore so if I wanted to sell them I would just put that in the title?[/QUOTE]

You can try to submit them again. If you sell ungraded, just list that in your title and description. Lots of collectors that don't care. Heck, I have sold cards with writing on the back, fully disclosed, for a decent price. Many people just want the card.

I have had good luck with Greg Morris Cards. They seem to give pretty accurate descriptions in their listing but I think they are popular so you might pay a bit more for the quality of their reputation.

[QUOTE=rolltide01;20033769]Are there any legit raw vintage dealers you guys would recommend?[/QUOTE]

GMC. His stuff always goes for double or more of others.