Highest HR Hit and Batting Average not in HOF
 

Just wondering who has the following that is not in the Hall of Fame. Not including banned players like Rose, and Bonds or current players Trying too se where the lines are drawn
1 most career home runs
2. Most career hits
3. Highest career batting average
4. Player with the highest combined stats from above not in Hall

I’m guessing the answer is likely Rafael Palmeiro

[url]https://www.baseball-reference.com/[/url]

[url]https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/[/url]
Probably all the same player, but only because they aren't eligible yet.

[QUOTE=DaryanLenz;19937061]I’m guessing the answer is likely Rafael Palmeiro[/QUOTE]OP was clearly wanting to avoid the guys not in the hall because of PEDs.

Off the top of my head I'd think Carlos Delgado is probably the top for career home runs not to make the Hall without PED baggage.

Removing PED guys and ineligible guys,

Delgado has 473 HR

Omar Vizquel has 2877 hits, but not in mostly due to off field issues. So Johnny Damon has 2769 hits.

Ledty O'Doul has a .349 batting average.

Many of the steroid era guys. Of those not guilty, I believe Delgado. Prior to that era Dwight Evans and I believe Dave Kingman. I'll see who I forgot.

[QUOTE=rogueriver;19937060]Just wondering who has the following that is not in the Hall of Fame. Not including banned players like Rose, and Bonds or current players Trying too se where the lines are drawn
1 most career home runs
2. Most career hits
3. Highest career batting average
4. Player with the highest combined stats from above not in Hall[/QUOTE]

Rose is no longer banned.

[QUOTE=Bosoxfan5990;19937196]Rose is no longer banned.[/QUOTE]Obviously, his point was to remove players from the discussion who would be in the hall, but aren't for non-baseball reasons. Otherewise, his stated point about finding statistical thresholds would be meaningless. And while Rose isn't banned right now, his ban is the reason why he's not in the hall. And he has not been considered for the hall since the ban was lifted. But again, it doesn't matter. His point was obvious and you just felt the need to be a pedant for no reason.

Yeah I was trying to not consider banned players or players who are suspected of PEDs and blocked and establish the lowest end of each of these stats. Was really curious as to the highest numbers and players who were not elected into the hall.

[QUOTE=OhioLawyerF5;19937072]Removing PED guys and ineligible guys,

Delgado has 473 HR

Omar Vizquel has 2877 hits, but not in mostly due to off field issues. So Johnny Damon has 2769 hits.

Ledty O'Doul has a .349 batting average.[/QUOTE]

Batting average is kind of tough because you start wondering where the line gets drawn. Lefty O'Doul is the answer, but he played fewer than 1,000 games and had only 3,660 plate appearances. Using a 6,000 cutoff (500 PAs for 12 years), we get Babe Herman who batted .324.

In terms of combined stats, Lefty O'Doul also has the highest OPS not in the Hall. If you go by the same 6,000 PA threshold, the answer becomes Lance Berkman (.943).


For pitchers, the career wins leader is an early baseball player named Bobby Mathews. He is credited with 297 wins, but keep in mind that many of those came in leagues that predated the National League and American League. If you want to go with the post-1901 leader in wins, the answer is Tommy John. ERA too complicated to figure out. Strikeouts is Mickey Lolich.

[QUOTE=Handsome Wes;19937216]Batting average is kind of tough because you start wondering where the line gets drawn. Lefty O'Doul is the answer, but he played fewer than 1,000 games and had only 3,660 plate appearances. Using a 6,000 cutoff (500 PAs for 12 years), we get Babe Herman who batted .324.



In terms of combined stats, Lefty O'Doul also has the highest OPS not in the Hall. If you go by the same 6,000 PA threshold, the answer becomes Lance Berkman (.943).





For pitchers, the career wins leader is an early baseball player named Bobby Mathews. He is credited with 297 wins, but keep in mind that many of those came in leagues that predated the National League and American League. If you want to go with the post-1901 leader in wins, the answer is Tommy John. ERA too complicated to figure out. Strikeouts is Mickey Lolich.[/QUOTE]I think with batting average in particular, it's more useful to remove all the pre-war guys. That stat has changed so drastically that if you want to truly understand a current threshold, you'll need to look at more modern era players. And the first modern player on the list would be Nomar Garciaparra with a .312 average.

As others said, it's Delgado. It's a shame Adam Dunn didn't have a couple more seasons in him to get to 500. 462 in 14 seasons is pretty impressive. It would have been fun to have the debate if he should be in the HOF if he had gotten to 500. Now, Schwarber is the next hope for a potential 500-homer guy with an iffy case.
The fact that Delgado is one of 6 players to hit 30 homers in 10 consecutive seasons (Bonds, Pujols, A.Rod, Foxx, and Sosa the others), and only got one year on the HOF ballot is absurd. I'm not saying he should be in definitely, but he should have had a full 10 years of consideration and debate.

Currently the answer to 3 of the 4 is Albert Pujols.

[QUOTE=jduds;19937777]As others said, it's Delgado. It's a shame Adam Dunn didn't have a couple more seasons in him to get to 500. 462 in 14 seasons is pretty impressive. It would have been fun to have the debate if he should be in the HOF if he had gotten to 500. Now, Schwarber is the next hope for a potential 500-homer guy with an iffy case.
The fact that Delgado is one of 6 players to hit 30 homers in 10 consecutive seasons (Bonds, Pujols, A.Rod, Foxx, and Sosa the others), and only got one year on the HOF ballot is absurd. I'm not saying he should be in definitely, but he should have had a full 10 years of consideration and debate.[/QUOTE]
After Andruw Jones, and Johan Santana, Delgado is next most deserving to be in the HOF.

[QUOTE=jduds;19937777]As others said, it's Delgado. It's a shame Adam Dunn didn't have a couple more seasons in him to get to 500. 462 in 14 seasons is pretty impressive. It would have been fun to have the debate if he should be in the HOF if he had gotten to 500. Now, Schwarber is the next hope for a potential 500-homer guy with an iffy case.
The fact that Delgado is one of 6 players to hit 30 homers in 10 consecutive seasons (Bonds, Pujols, A.Rod, Foxx, and Sosa the others), and only got one year on the HOF ballot is absurd. I'm not saying he should be in definitely, but he should have had a full 10 years of consideration and debate.[/QUOTE]

Only 34 when he retired too, thought he was much older

[QUOTE=TBTC Baseball;19937793]Currently the answer to 3 of the 4 is Albert Pujols.[/QUOTE]

Then Miguel Cabrera has to be right behind him.

[QUOTE=jduds;19937777]As others said, it's Delgado. It's a shame Adam Dunn didn't have a couple more seasons in him to get to 500. 462 in 14 seasons is pretty impressive. It would have been fun to have the debate if he should be in the HOF if he had gotten to 500. Now, Schwarber is the next hope for a potential 500-homer guy with an iffy case.

The fact that Delgado is one of 6 players to hit 30 homers in 10 consecutive seasons (Bonds, Pujols, A.Rod, Foxx, and Sosa the others), and only got one year on the HOF ballot is absurd. I'm not saying he should be in definitely, but he should have had a full 10 years of consideration and debate.[/QUOTE]Didn't Adam Dunn admit to using steroids?

[QUOTE=OhioLawyerF5;19937236]I think with batting average in particular, it's more useful to remove all the pre-war guys. That stat has changed so drastically that if you want to truly understand a current threshold, you'll need to look at more modern era players. And the first modern player on the list would be Nomar Garciaparra with a .312 average.[/QUOTE]

Just looked, Mark Grace had a .303 and played 2245 games.

[QUOTE=OhioLawyerF5;19937932]Didn't Adam Dunn admit to using steroids?[/QUOTE]


There’s a weird article where he admits it, but I think it was sarcasm. He’s always been fairly vocal against steroid users from what I recall and can’t find anything else linking him to PEDs. I think he was just a big dude.


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[QUOTE=TBTC Baseball;19937794]After Andruw Jones, and Johan Santana, Delgado is next most deserving to be in the HOF.[/QUOTE]

I'd argue for players of that era that Kenny Lofton would be more deserving than Delgado. 68 vs. 44 career bWAR, excellent offensive and defensive outfielder and when you compare him side by side with Ichiro its a bit mind boggling that Lofton was a one and done candidate (he's not better than Ichiro but statistically he's about 90% of Ichiro).

I'd put good money on it that Delgado did steroids. Not sure why he would escape that scrutiny.

[QUOTE=Imnottheonly;19938086]I'd argue for players of that era that Kenny Lofton would be more deserving than Delgado. 68 vs. 44 career bWAR, excellent offensive and defensive outfielder and when you compare him side by side with Ichiro its a bit mind boggling that Lofton was a one and done candidate (he's not better than Ichiro but statistically he's about 90% of Ichiro).[/QUOTE]

I concur.

There are times I would watch him that I felt he was one of the top 5 players in baseball at the time.

[QUOTE=Imnottheonly;19938086]I'd argue for players of that era that Kenny Lofton would be more deserving than Delgado. 68 vs. 44 career bWAR, excellent offensive and defensive outfielder and when you compare him side by side with Ichiro its a bit mind boggling that Lofton was a one and done candidate (he's not better than Ichiro but statistically he's about 90% of Ichiro).[/QUOTE]
I agree, I completely blanked on Lofton. Andruw, Johan, Kenny then Carlos.