Goat debate Lebron vs Jordan...
 

I know in terms of collecting it's JORDAN but there is a case for Lebron in terms of versatility and accumulation of stats. Having the all time points record could put Lebron over the top.

Feel free to discuss....

This is a new topic.

Shocked it's never been brought up before today.

This is easy - Jeremy Lin

Great topic OP , this hasn’t been done before on here , thanks OP :coffee:

Please go back to work.

3 categories of goat qualifying

Collecting
Versatility
Accumulation of stats

Lebron wins 2/3, the end

Gets me to thinking….. Rod Strickland or Jrue Holiday. I think we need to discuss this first.

[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/v0eHX3n28wvoQ/giphy.gif[/IMG]

I wonder if anyone has changed their mind on here since last month.

greatest all around player or greatest career? a solid argument can be made either way for the first but mj had the better career and lebron will never surpass that.

[QUOTE=6celtics33;18698876]3 categories of goat qualifying

Collecting
Versatility
Accumulation of stats

Lebron wins 2/3, the end

Gets me to thinking….. Rod Strickland or Jrue Holiday. I think we need to discuss this first.[/QUOTE]



Tough call but I’m
Going with that Rod Strickland guy

Positive for Nandralone

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

Please, please not again...

Too bad OP is not Retired_poster.

What about Kevin Duckworth as GOAT?

[QUOTE=pingbling23;18698883]greatest all around player or greatest career? a solid argument can be made either way for the first but mj had the better career and lebron will never surpass that.[/QUOTE]

Just a hypothetical question. What if we swap Jordan and Lebron?

[url]https://www.quora.com/If-you-take-LeBron-and-put-him-on-the-Bulls-in-Jordans-time-and-you-take-Jordan-and-put-him-on-Cleveland-how-many-rings-do-they-each-win[/url]

[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/g5ikln/swap_lebron_mj_timelines_does_lebron_win_6_rings/[/url]

[QUOTE=pcptrade;18698907]Just a hypothetical question. What if we swap Jordan and Lebron?

[url]https://www.quora.com/If-you-take-LeBron-and-put-him-on-the-Bulls-in-Jordans-time-and-you-take-Jordan-and-put-him-on-Cleveland-how-many-rings-do-they-each-win[/url]

[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/g5ikln/swap_lebron_mj_timelines_does_lebron_win_6_rings/[/url][/QUOTE]

thats always an interesting way at looking things but who knows what would happen. lebron would have never jumped teams because the bulls were willing to build championship teams and he would have everything he needed. it was much easier for one player in that era to effect the outcome of games because teams were not as stacked. people say mj would never try to pair with another star so he would have stayed in Cleveland his entire career and may have never won a ring. if paths were similar i dont see mj losing to the mavs like lebron did year one in miami but i dont see lebron retiring mid dynasty and could have possibly won more then 6.

i’ve been straddling the fence with “jordan is the greatest, lebron is the best”.

like if you’re designing a basketball-playing robot, you’re basing it on lebron. but if you want to win a game against aliens to save earth, you’re picking jordan [emoji2373]

[youtube]iU7VkeUPxaw[/youtube]

[youtube]vqq5d_4umFM[/youtube]

[youtube]gk2F3dKb1uQ[/youtube]

or any number of other videos:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lebron+jordan+goat+debate[/url]

I say MJ has a more perfect career, perhaps the biggest tie-breaker being Bron's 2011 Finals collapse. Far as I know, MJ didn't have a playoff series like that. Also I'm unaware of MJ having a [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czq4NN0la6w"]floppin'[/URL] or [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaEhON77YiU"]Shaqtin'[/URL] record like Bron.

I don't see an argument for Bron above [URL="https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bill+russell+goat+debate"]Bill Russell[/URL], either, but the eras are pretty different. Bron might be neck-and-neck with MJ as far as stats go, and Bron might have his [URL="https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/nba_mvp_shares.html"]career MVP Shares[/URL] diminished by a larger talent pool in this era vs. the previous ones (otherwise MJ is the front-runner on a per-prime-season basis). These things I count against Bron go primarily to winning and character, and they have to be weighed in the balance against all the other GOAT contenders with their strengths and issues. (MJ's infamous treatment of teammates might be strike against him if there are other ways of motivating teammates that aren't mean/a**hole-like. I hear Russell could be mean.)

All in all, I see these three as the clear-cut top 3 of all-time (and given the era/competitiveness I might have Duncan at #4, but I don't think it's all that close no matter who's at #4; moreover, I don't see a clear-cut case for Kareem over Wilt given their circumstances, or for Magic & Larry over Duncan given differences in era). In any case, it's these 3 that belong in the GOAT debate and in this it's a matter of whose career was most perfect which is the most demanding standard for rating all-time greats.

And I could be wrong about Duncan being a distant 4th rather than right in the mix with the other 3. It's just that he's far behind Bron in career MVP Shares despite largely overlapping careers/eras. He might have been as instrumental to championship wins as Bron, though. (He won titles with 34-year-old Admiral, and Parker/Ginobili who are how high on the all-time list?) 5 rings, 3 Finals MVPs and arguably the mvp in the '07 Finals. And this close || to a 6-0 Finals record. He might also get tie-breaker points for doing it all with one team. But Bron teams might have done more with Pop-level coaching and/or better front-office support in CLE. But I can't imagine Duncan having the strikes against him that I've named against Bron.

In terms of sheer talent it's probably Bron.

I don't take into account the players' off-court persona or cultural presence.

I've never really thought about it, but now that OP mentions it—this is a pretty interesting comparison.

I'd give the edge to Jordan though. He was almost as famous as Michael Jackson.

If you want to win, MJ. Who cares about anything else. You play sports to win. Stats, Social Media, Impacting Your Community, etc...really doesnt matter in sports.

[QUOTE=SupermanBrandon;18698994]If you want to win, MJ. Who cares about anything else. You play sports to win. Stats, Social Media, Impacting Your Community, etc...really doesnt matter in sports.[/QUOTE]

but its a team game. mj isnt the winningest player so your argument falls flat. you have to look at what each player accomplished (stats, titles, records, etc), who they accomplished it with, and who they accomplished it against. its the full body of work, not just who won the most with having the most contribution to winning. this isnt to say winning isnt important. your value has to lead to winning.

You want the top dog on your team to pad you some stats you pick Lebron, you want top dog on your team to win its MJ. Watched them both in their primes, its not debatable.

Lebron James Finals record 22-33 4* Rings 4-6
Michael Jordan Finals record 24-11 6 Rings 6-0

You can't go 22-33 in the finals and call yourself the greatest basketball player ever. And you can't blame it on his teammates because Lebron hand picked them. You also can't call yourself the greatest when you're in your prime and you jump ship to ride someone else's coat tails. The GOAT should always want to beat the man to be the man, not team up with them and jump ship to do so.

Go watch the 75th anniversary ceremony. All the greats there were in awe of one guy. That should tell you who the GOAT is.

I’m glad someone made a YouTube series nobody cares to watch to discuss this.

[QUOTE=BGT Masters;18699009]You want the top dog on your team to pad you some stats you pick Lebron, you want top dog on your team to win its MJ. Watched them both in their primes, its not debatable.

Lebron James Finals record 22-33 4* Rings 4-6
Michael Jordan Finals record 24-11 6 Rings 6-0

You can't go 22-33 in the finals and call yourself the greatest basketball player ever. And you can't blame it on his teammates because Lebron hand picked them. You also can't call yourself the greatest when you're in your prime and you jump ship to ride someone else's coat tails. The GOAT should always want to beat the man to be the man, not team up with them and jump ship to do so.[/QUOTE]
Thank God this thread was ended before the end of page 1.

[QUOTE=BGT Masters;18699009]You want the top dog on your team to pad you some stats you pick Lebron, you want top dog on your team to win its MJ. Watched them both in their primes, its not debatable.

Lebron James Finals record 22-33 4* Rings 4-6
Michael Jordan Finals record 24-11 6 Rings 6-0

You can't go 22-33 in the finals and call yourself the greatest basketball player ever. And you can't blame it on his teammates because Lebron hand picked them. You also can't call yourself the greatest when you're in your prime and you jump ship to ride someone else's coat tails. The GOAT should always want to beat the man to be the man, not team up with them and jump ship to do so.[/QUOTE]

watched them both in their prime, it is debatable. again, team game. the teams jordan beat for his titles do not have the greatest resume. sure they were some good teams and players but old lakers, never won anything blazers and suns, never won anything sonics, and never won anything jazz. the bulls were favorites in every one of their finals. of course jordan was a big part of that but it speaks to how good the bulls rosters were. people go on and on about lebron hand picking his teams but again, the teams were competitive not unfair as shown by lebron lead teams not being the favorites in the majority of his finals, teams were/are deeper in this era. whose coat tails did he ride? if youre referring to when he went to the heat he had 2 league mvps and 2 finals mvps during the heatles era. youre being disingenuous.

knowing what we do about mj, he wants to win at all cost. youre telling me if he was drafted and aged through the league in a poor situation and it was acceptable during the era to play for different teams he wouldnt have done what needed to be done to win titles? he absolutely would have because he would have done whatever he had to do to win. with the bulls he realized what his weaknesses were and overcame them to win but he knew that he had a good enough team to do that with. bulls got better and better and continued making good moves to build a dynasty. without jordan they wouldnt have been a dynasty but it was pretty telling when pippen lead the bulls to 55 wins and barely lost in the second round to the knicks who almost won the title that year and the bulls were above .500 before mj returned the next year. mj wasnt just carrying scrub teams to 2 3 peats.