Blowout Cards Forums - Star Co. Basketball is Hottt!

Blowout Cards Forums (https://www.blowoutforums.com/index.php)

- BASKETBALL (https://www.blowoutforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=6)

- - Star Co. Basketball is Hottt! (https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1526852)

Star Co. Basketball is Hottt!

Sounds like a pump job and it may be, but sales since around the time of PSAs announcement are significant up. XRCs of major players have sold in the last three week period July 3rd - 23rd at a rate 31% higher than the previous six months. That's just the number of sales, not the dollars they sold for. Data on the actual purchase price is harder to comb through. However some sales have been very strong. In any case, cards are moving and that seems like a good thing for you Star collectors.

well duh, because they can now get graded...

Very strong sales and it’s going to sustain and go higher. This is uncharted territory for the Star cards now PSA has opened or will open the gates for grading all Star cards. The 101 is going to bring some serious cash. A BGS 9 is approaching 100k and a PSA 9 I guarantee will do that. I doubt we ever see a PSA 10 if we do it’s close to a million dollar card. Now the 3 BGS 9.5 even though they’re min-gems should bring 500k.

Someone probably stocked up on enough of them to figure it was time to change the policy.

[QUOTE=Hellcat;18321519]Very strong sales and it’s going to sustain and go higher. This is uncharted territory for the Star cards now PSA has opened or will open the gates for grading all Star cards. The 101 is going to bring some serious cash. A BGS 9 is approaching 100k and a PSA 9 I guarantee will do that. I doubt we ever see a PSA 10 if we do it’s close to a million dollar card. Now the 3 BGS 9.5 even though they’re min-gems should bring 500k.[/QUOTE]

as for crossover attempts, I'm not clear on whether we'd see much of those because of the likelihood of downgrading and also the 4 subgrades on BGS cards differentiate between a strong and a weak overall number grade. (A 9 with two 9.5 subgrades gets at least as much respect as a PSA 9, a 9 with a 8.5 subgrade is basically treated like a PSA 8.5. Something in that ballpark?) Isn't that how it works with other cards as well?

Oh wow! Star basketball cards are going crazy ... and ... and ... then the 86' Fleer Jordan will go crazy again ... and then Kobe ... and then LeBron ... and ... and ... then basketball will be like it was two years ago! Oh my Gawd! Oh my Gawd!!! What are you waiting for?? Buy your cards now before it's too late!!!

[IMG]https://c.tenor.com/WbYTQ1xWf0gAAAAM/crazy-person-homer-simpson.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=oldgoldy97;18321707]Someone probably stocked up on enough of them to figure it was time to change the policy.[/QUOTE]

who do you think this was?

[QUOTE=HeyRelaxGuy;18321995]Oh wow! Star basketball cards are going crazy ... and ... and ... then the 86' Fleer Jordan will go crazy again ... and then Kobe ... and then LeBron ... and ... and ... then basketball will be like it was two years ago! Oh my Gawd! Oh my Gawd!!! What are you waiting for?? Buy your cards now before it's too late!!!

[IMG]https://c.tenor.com/WbYTQ1xWf0gAAAAM/crazy-person-homer-simpson.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]I'm going to National with $10,000-$15,000 cash to buy Jordan 101. I'm going into New York to handle some business. If I can't get a Jordan 101 at the National. I'm taken the money and throwing back on BitCoin,Eflond,and some Tech and Energy stocks. I will just sit back and wait. What goes up must come down.

[QUOTE=biggieruth;18322064]I'm going to National with $10,000-$15,000 cash to buy Jordan 101. I'm going into New York to handle some business. If I can't get a Jordan 101 at the National. I'm taken the money and throwing back on BitCoin,Eflond,and some Tech and Energy stocks. I will just sit back and wait. What goes up must come down.[/QUOTE]
$10,000-$15,000 won’t get you much of a 101 but hey you may get a desperate seller that may want to move a beat up one. You need to find one ASAP. They have reached new floors for sure.

Starpumpers in the thread:
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/qTrXjwP.gif[/IMG]

my guess is that buyers will be exercising more caution than what we saw in the 2020-21 run-up and sell-off. PSA 9 prices will of course go for more than average BGS 9 prices because PSA is known for tougher grading, and a price ratio equilibrium will be established based on that. As for whether the PSA grade/holder would magically make the cards go to the moon, see my first sentence.

Ultimately it is about the desirability of Star cards, PSA pumpers can't really BS the collecting world about their becoming more desirable just because PSA started grading them, because they'd be on the hook to explain just how it is that these cards can be authenticated all of a sudden, in 2022.

If there's a run-up, it would be temporary and it would be a parting of fools from their money for being so ignorant as to believe that PSA grading/authenticating magically made these cards more legit. They would have to overlook or be stupefyingly ignorant of just *how* PSA's experts can determine they are legit. That question should of course answer itself: they are getting their knowledge/expertise from the very same base of knowledge/expertise that has existed for as long as these cards have existed, the Shop at Home or whatever other scandals notwithstanding.

As for just why PSA didn't listen to Steve Taft & other experts all this time, PSA might or might not be or get transparent about this; my best guess is that it was (of course) a business decision based on some sort of uncertainty about being able to honor its grading guarantee with these cards. Maybe they required some considerable period of time for the "fog of war" to dissipate; maybe we all had to know for sure that new-but-exactly-original-looking copies hadn't been hitting the market between the '90s and today and are unlikely to do so going forward (any more than with Fleer or other brands). After enough time, it became quite a settled matter just what did or didn't emerge from Star Co.-like printing plates, based on FBI investigations and whatnot. But I can only guess.

Taft et al's expertise just wasn't good enough to settle the matter enough for them, until enough time had passed? That didn't seem to bother BGS and a couple of the other grading companies. Maybe PSA was waiting to see just what happened after BGS was grading for enough time, to be sure that its pop reports looked legit enough (i.e., that BGS wasn't getting more than a few fakes through here and there at most).

If that guess is more or less accurate, you basically had PSA outsourcing to BGS the authentication risks, well aware that they were getting probably-to-likely very reliable input from Taft et al.

So BGS was the "testing ground," producing in the process a legitimate pop report as compared with the estimated original population of Star releases (in the few thousands), and all the people in the hobby with interest in Star products were watching this as closely as PSA itself was. So nobody but ignoramuses are out of the loop on this, there are no surprises coming in this regard.

So what we're left with, aside from the less aware folks being fooled by "PSA makes Star Co. product legit" pumping, is the establishing of the price ratio equilibrium between PSA- and BGS-graded cards at each number grade. There would be some amount of speculation about that until we have a sizable enough population sample of Star cards graded by PSA. The speculation there would of course lead to short-term price fluctuations until that ratio equilibrium is established, but long-term it's all going to be about the desirability of Star material (whether in the original sealed bags or otherwise), and I don't know how that is supposed to be affected by any TPG situation any more than it is already.

^^^Bro I hope you have a nice 101 with MJ being in your avatar. The true Jordan collectors have to have his only true rookie. If you ever need to be reminded flip over the back of the Star 101 and Fleer 57 and tell me what you see. :)

[QUOTE=oldgoldy97;18321707]Someone probably stocked up on enough of them to figure it was time to change the policy.[/QUOTE]

No way, Nat is great and only for the hobby. Just ask his nuthuggers here on BO.

Who is doing the authentication for PSA?are they sending them to Steve or taking his training?Says nothing i can find on PSA's site outside of adding a few days extra on TA.

Upfront: I am a massive Star partisan and a large share of my collection is Star.

1) For better or worse, PSA grading = validation of the issue for more casual or new collectors.

2) Seems pretty simple: Nat buys PSA = Nat thinks Star is important = PSA starts grading Star.

3) It's not terribly difficult to authenticate 84-85 base, in particular. I haven't seen a good fake 101.

4) Growth will come from rotation, even if (as) the hobby shrinks in total dollar terms. Some percentage of funds that would have propped up 86 Fleer prices will move into Star. Some number of people who would have seen the Fleer 57 as the rookie, grail, etc. will now see the 101 as that.

[QUOTE=Gary;18322636]Who is doing the authentication for PSA?are they sending them to Steve or taking his training?Says nothing i can find on PSA's site outside of adding a few days extra on TA.[/QUOTE]

Steve made a Facebook post saying he was not involved with training/educating anyone at PSA and has no part in this current development of PSA resuming Star grading and authentication…although he did offer his services to them in the past, but they never took him up on it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=Boo;18322470]No way, Nat is great and only for the hobby. Just ask his nuthuggers here on BO.[/QUOTE]

The whole industry is one giant conflict of interest.

Is an ponie a athlete

[QUOTE=CardPadre;18322734]Steve made a Facebook post saying he was not involved with training/educating anyone at PSA and has no part in this current development of PSA resuming Star grading and authentication…although he did offer his services to them in the past, but they never took him up on it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

If Steve posted that he is already distancing himself from this,That's good enough for me to pass on PSA.

I've always considered the Star Rc to be Jordan's true Rc and not an XRC. Too bad I never pulled the trigger on one.

[QUOTE=GOATcards;18322367]
...Maybe they required some considerable period of time for the "fog of war" to dissipate; maybe we all had to know for sure that new-but-exactly-original-looking copies hadn't been hitting the market between the '90s and today and are unlikely to do so going forward (any more than with Fleer or other brands). After enough time, it became quite a settled matter just what did or didn't emerge from Star Co.-like printing plates, based on FBI investigations and whatnot....

...So BGS was the "testing ground," producing in the process a legitimate pop report as compared with the estimated original population of Star releases (in the few thousands), and all the people in the hobby with interest in Star products were watching this as closely as PSA itself was.
[/QUOTE]
This is well said. I think all of us who bought Star were watching the BGS grading like it was a clinical trial, awaiting the results. When the pop report proved there is not a massive hoard of fake/reprinted cards issued by the original manufacturer, this added legitimacy to Star.

[B]Beckett, for all their shortfalls, proved that the cards were of a limited print run (around 5K or less each) and could easily be identified when you know what to look for.[/B]

I also like the cards Beckett chose to grade- they have the sets that were produced and distributed in the 80's correct. The two later released by Schonco around 1990 (Best of Best, Magic set) are probably OK if viewed in context. I think PSA can easily follow the work done by BGS here and grade the 37 set catalog accepted by the collecting community.

[QUOTE=Gary;18322781]If Steve posted that he is already distancing himself from this,That's good enough for me to pass on PSA.[/QUOTE]

To be fair, PSA evidently did not feel the need to pay Steve for his consulting services. A very knowledgable dealer for sure, but anything worth knowing about these cards already exists. The fact that Taft is not involved (and he is certainly a respectable guy) doesn't bother me.

Star cards are well established, unquestionably. My bigger concern by a mile is: [B]how will the cards be graded[/B]? How will centering be handled? Will sheet cut / odd sized cards be graded or just authenticated? Will the reject cards in the Schonco collection be graded or authenticated (error cards, pulled cards like Barkley Gatorade, etc)?

Wasn't there some issue with Star printing their cards AFTER the stated years on the back of the cards and this was one of the reasons none of the major companies graded them for years? Anything with questionable stuff like this, I get leary. But once it's in a PSA holder, most won't care. This will definitely help out Star values going forward.

[QUOTE=Hellcat;18322450]^^^Bro I hope you have a nice 101 with MJ being in your avatar. The true Jordan collectors have to have his only true rookie. If you ever need to be reminded flip over the back of the Star 101 and Fleer 57 and tell me what you see. :)[/QUOTE]

As I've said before, I had a 101 back in the '90s, inch-thick lucite brick and everything. I've tried the 101 out. I ended up not enjoying looking at it for the obvious reasons I've provided. It's an aesthetic thing. Perhaps you've noticed that the 52T Mantle far outsells the 51B RC, because of aesthetics.

As for the aesthetically best early MJ issues, I've said that for my ultra-picky tastes I go with the 2nd year star (#117) and the 87 sticker. As for aesthetically best MJ cards overall, I made a [URL="https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?p=17892485"]thread[/URL].