ebay buyer to block: limited-steals-n-deals
 

I sold a [URL="https://www.ebay.com/itm/133419389171"]Topps Project 2020 Mike Trout #35 by Andrew Thiele PR /13200 IN HAND NIB RC[/URL] on May 24th for $80. The card is now worth about $35. I do not accept returns on Project 2020 because of pieces of sh*t like this guy.

So of course Timmy Tran (limited-steals-n-deals) opens an INAD against me for a scratched case and uploads these four photos:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/VzbZ58Ol.jpg[/img][img]https://i.imgur.com/kdrMYNnl.jpg[/img][img]https://i.imgur.com/7qpqZRWl.jpg[/img][img]https://i.imgur.com/XTwsxvpl.jpg[/img]

Here's what happened
Jun 12: You sent a message
Message: You're not the first scammer to pull this on me with project 2020 cards. People like you are scum and ruin this hobby.

Jun 12: The buyer sent you a message
Message: I forgot to say “case”. Either way, I did not receive the item I expected. You as a seller should describe any flaws your item has. If we can’t come to terms then I will wait for Ebay to step in

Jun 12: You sent a message
Message: You just said the card was scratched, now you're saying the case is scratched. Do you know how many bogus claims I've gotten from scammers like you. You have contradicted yourself in this claim saying that the card is damaged. Now you're saying the case is scratched. The listing does not promise a pristine case. I do not offer refunds on Project 2020 cards, enjoy the card.

Jun 12: The buyer sent you a message
Message: The card case is scratched. You can clearly see it on the pictures

Jun 12: You sent a message
Message: The card is not scratched. The case has marks on it from the manufacturing process. The only reason you want to return this card is because it sells for half this price now.

Jun 12: The buyer sent you a message
Message: Those are definitely scratches. Look closer on the back of the case. As a buyer, I expect to know exactly what I’m buying. If I buy an item on ebay, I would want to know if it was defective. I was expecting a clean card, not a card with a scratched up place

Jun 12: You sent a message
Message: I do not offer returns on Project 2020 cards. Those are not scratches, those are normal marks that all plastic holders have. You can see the reflection of the light on the case that the case is clean. Take the same pictures of any one touch holder and you will see those same insignificant marks. These are not disclosed in the listing because there's no scratches on the case. Your pictures don't show any scratches. A scratch is a gouge in the case. I represented the exact item sold that you recieved and nowhere in the listing did I promise a scratch free case. You were bidding on the card, not the case.

Jun 12: The buyer (limited-steals-n-deals) created a return (5151398800)

Not even going to wait for ebay to rule on this one, I'm screwed of course just like the other six auctions. Sure, it's only $50 this time but I'm probably down over a thousand dollars in pure profits by now.

This hobby is full the worst people on Earth.

Did any of your Project 2020 sales not get returned?

[QUOTE=JeffG1954;16041782]Did any of your Project 2020 sales not get returned?[/QUOTE]

Yes, plenty of them. I did come out ahead in all this -- it just sucks that I've slid back like $1,200 in profits through no fault of my own. The biggest problem is that when I was selling these high print run cards, I was still turning around and buying high print run cards from topps thinking that if a card with a PR of 13,200 sells for several times what I paid then what's wrong with buying shore griffeys from topps. So now I've got like a 100 cards coming to me and I don't even have the money I had thinking it was okay to buy those cards.

I understand you are upset. BUT be aware you are handing out a blueprint to every shady buyer who has a $30 card in hand that they paid $500 for.

[QUOTE=Westlake;16041813]I understand you are upset. BUT be aware you are handing out a blueprint to every shady buyer who has a $30 card in hand that they paid $500 for.[/QUOTE]

ME?! [I]eBay[/I] handed out the blueprint to every shady buyer regardless of the item.

the returns you're getting suck. no debating that.

[QUOTE=eldavojohn;16041792]Yes, plenty of them. I did come out ahead in all this -- it just sucks that I've slid back like $1,200 in profits through no fault of my own. The biggest problem is that when I was selling these high print run cards, I was still turning around and buying high print run cards from topps thinking that if a card with a PR of 13,200 sells for several times what I paid then what's wrong with buying shore griffeys from topps. So now I've got like a 100 cards coming to me and I don't even have the money I had thinking it was okay to buy those cards.[/QUOTE]

but who's fault is that?

[QUOTE=tier1dc;16042088]and that's who's fault?[/QUOTE]

Oh it's my fault, everything's my fault. It was my fault for selling these cards at a price, getting the money and then having that money taken from me. All my fault, you've been very helpful, thanks!

[QUOTE=eldavojohn;16042090]Oh it's my fault, everything's my fault. It was my fault for selling these cards at a price, getting the money and then having that money taken from me. All my fault, you've been very helpful, thanks![/QUOTE]

Not sure how anyone can help in this situation. It's one of the risks with eBay. You had no problem selling $17 cards for thousands when you were on the positive end.

The only thing I implied was your fault was the reliance on the nonsensical profit model from selling these cards in perpetuity. No one made you make those orders. If the prices had continued to maintain or climb you wouldn't have made all these threads about bad buyers.

That part sucks. It sucks when eBay policy can be taken advantage like this. Sorry for that.

[QUOTE=tier1dc;16043115]Not sure how anyone can help in this situation. It's one of the risks with eBay. You had no problem selling $17 cards for thousands when you were on the positive end. [/QUOTE]

Correct, I had no problem engaging in capitalism -- do you have problem selling cards when people are willing to pay for them? Should I be giving the cards away? Sometimes you lose, sometimes you win. This is one of the few instances where I won -- maybe the only time with Topps. Normally you buy something and it tanks. In my hobby career I am still wayyyyy in the red.

[QUOTE=tier1dc;16043115]The only thing I implied was your fault was the reliance on the nonsensical profit model from selling these cards in perpetuity. No one made you make those orders. [/QUOTE]

So if I sell something, I shouldn't consider that money mine? I shouldn't make further purchase decisions on sales? I'm not here looking for pity buddy, I'm just explaining why this sucks for me. If you don't think it sucks or you want to give me the "forest for the trees" talk, I'll be happy to sell these returned cards to you at the prices I was screwed out of.

When you lose money, it's the worst thing in the world. When other people lose money "you gotta look at it differently, pal".

[QUOTE=eldavojohn;16041818]ME?! [I]eBay[/I] handed out the blueprint to every shady buyer regardless of the item.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't blaming you. All I was saying is that you posted several instances where someone bought project 2020s from you and returned them against your wishes along with exactly how they did it. If other buyers who bought $30 cards for $500 read that they might be tempted to do the same. Yes it's wrong but it's a lot of money.

[QUOTE=Westlake;16043272]I wasn't blaming you. All I was saying is that you posted several instances where someone bought project 2020s from you and returned them against your wishes along with exactly how they did it. If other buyers who bought $30 cards for $500 read that they might be tempted to do the same. Yes it's wrong but it's a lot of money.[/QUOTE]

Dude, read all the threads, they complain about scratches, about not having numbers on the cards, about me sending them a card from a different auction. You think this is a blueprint? You could enter unintelligible text into the return reason box and you'd still feck the seller.

Blueprint? I'm writing these out to protect other sellers who want to block them. There's no other way to get around this!

[QUOTE=eldavojohn;16041792]So now I've got like a 100 cards coming to me and I don't even have the money I had thinking it was okay to buy those cards.[/QUOTE]

Generally I don't count any money from sales as "usable" for 3 months (90 days). It sits and doesn't get used to buy more product or personal stuff. As you are witnessing, things happen that are out of your control and you're on the hook for the refunds. Be it the market went down, someone changed their minds (yep, Ebay forces refunds for that too), lost or damaged mail, etc.

I do agree that card sales should be like stock purchases, and by that, I mean all sales are final. But that's not how Ebay works, so you/me/anyone can be as upset as we want to be about it, but it won't change anything. And we all know it is possible for a card (or set or player or whatever) to crash, and the returns to start pouring in. So we have to prepare accordingly for it in case it happens.

[QUOTE=MasterOfTheDark;16044846]Generally I don't count any money from sales as "usable" for 3 months (90 days). It sits and doesn't get used to buy more product or personal stuff. As you are witnessing, things happen that are out of your control and you're on the hook for the refunds. Be it the market went down, someone changed their minds (yep, Ebay forces refunds for that too), lost or damaged mail, etc.

I do agree that card sales should be like stock purchases, and by that, I mean all sales are final. But that's not how Ebay works, so you/me/anyone can be as upset as we want to be about it, but it won't change anything. And we all know it is possible for a card (or set or player or whatever) to crash, and the returns to start pouring in. So we have to prepare accordingly for it in case it happens.[/QUOTE]

Its not just Ebay where this can happen any site where Credit cards are involved it could happen. Paypal rules allow this so it could happen here and the only thing you have working for you is peer pressure from other members but that will not stop the return if they want to return it. Amazon is the worst when it comes to stuff like this. Sites like Poshmark have a very short window to return and people still take advantage of it. There are scams involving Mercari as well. Many of these polices originate from Credit Card policies. Even store owners where the card is swiped can face the same thing.

[QUOTE=shrevecity;16045098]Its not just Ebay where this can happen any site where Credit cards are involved it could happen. Paypal rules allow this so it could happen here and the only thing you have working for you is peer pressure from other members but that will not stop the return if they want to return it. Amazon is the worst when it comes to stuff like this. Sites like Poshmark have a very short window to return and people still take advantage of it. There are scams involving Mercari as well. Many of these polices originate from Credit Card policies. Even store owners where the card is swiped can face the same thing.[/QUOTE]

One of the paypal reps was pretty blunt with me, he basically explained that a credit card chargeback is the end of the world for paypal so they'll screw over the sellers at all costs to avoid that. That guy was one of the few people who wasn't afraid to admit that the whole intent here is that I'm the one left holding the bag.

I'm looking into moving only to stockx for these cards, how do they avoid credit card chargebacks?

[QUOTE=eldavojohn;16045106]One of the paypal reps was pretty blunt with me, he basically explained that a credit card chargeback is the end of the world for paypal so they'll screw over the sellers at all costs to avoid that. That guy was one of the few people who wasn't afraid to admit that the whole intent here is that I'm the one left holding the bag.

I'm looking into moving only to stockx for these cards, how do they avoid credit card chargebacks?[/QUOTE]

They don't if a person complains to their CC they will have to pay. The question though is how they deal with that loss.

Yeah when a Credit Card company says we want our customers money back whatever the reason is the company that took the card 99% of the time has to refund the money. There are protections for sellers in these cases and that is why most sellers win unauthorized use claims and such, but Paypal and Ebay likely loses millions to these every year actually protecting sellers. Hell when I was part owner of a restaurant here locally we would get one or two chargebacks a month and even when we had all the proof against the claim we still had to eat it.

If you are set up at a show and take credit cards which is almost a necessity and the buyer claims 6 months later that someone else used their card you are likely going to be screwed.. Some Credit Cards extend this protection for up to 12 months.

[QUOTE=shrevecity;16045124]Paypal and Ebay likely loses millions to these every year actually protecting sellers.[/QUOTE]

Well, not for me, I assure you that. They take their pound of flesh (10% & 3%) and then when the buyer wants to screw someone over they pass the losses on to me.

[QUOTE=eldavojohn;16045128]Well, not for me, I assure you that. They take their pound of flesh (10% & 3%) and then when the buyer wants to screw someone over they pass the losses on to me.[/QUOTE]

I am referring to cases where their policies actually go in the sellers favor like unauthorized CC usage claims. If you can provide tracking showing you just shipped the item does not even have to show delivery the seller will be protected from the loss but Paypal or Ebay will often have to eat that themselves as they do not hold the seller responsible.

Here is the result of one of those I had through Ebays managed payments just got it after I posted this.

[I]Dispute ID: 5000101767

Hi,

A decision has been made about the dispute that was filed by . The dispute was found in the buyer's favor and they have received a refund of $10.50.

You are covered by eBay’s seller protection so you don't have to pay anything back and no further action is needed.[/I]


So the CC company forced Ebay to refund the money, but because tracking was provided and showed delivery to the buyer Ebay covered me and took the loss themselves this is how all these cases turn out where the seller can prove shipping.

[QUOTE=Westlake;16043272]I wasn't blaming you. All I was saying is that you posted several instances where someone bought project 2020s from you and returned them against your wishes along with exactly how they did it. If other buyers who bought $30 cards for $500 read that they might be tempted to do the same. Yes it's wrong but it's a lot of money.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you to a point, but there are facebook groups out there that tell people how to get free items on Ebay, there are videos on Youtube. Scammers find ways to milk the system no matter what. They are usually one step ahead of the honest guys. So if we are discussing a tactic you can be sure its already been discovered or being used.

[QUOTE=shrevecity;16045185]I agree with you to a point, but there are facebook groups out there that tell people how to get free items on Ebay, there are videos on Youtube. Scammers find ways to milk the system no matter what. They are usually one step ahead of the honest guys. So if we are discussing a tactic you can be sure its already been discovered or being used.[/QUOTE]

These people deserve a blanket party.