Prestine Auction Shill Bids Own Items
 

Many complain about the way terms of service are written with respect to auction owned items and shill bidding.

On that list is Heritage Auctions and Goldin Auctions.

Nobody seems to be as brazen or up front about their illegal activities as Prestine Auctions.

In this series of emails it shows they own the item in question and undeniably have a system in place to auto bid everyone to a hidden reserve.

I highly recommend that this company somehow be lumped into and added to anything the FBI is looking into. Scum like thos should be eradicated.

Images to follow.

[QUOTE=qdoggmets;15686913]Many complain about the way terms of service are written with respect to auction owned items and shill bidding.

On that list is Heritage Auctions and Goldin Auctions.

Nobody seems to be as brazen or up front about their illegal activities as Prestine Auctions.

In this series of emails it shows they own the item in question and undeniably have a system in place to auto bid everyone to a hidden reserve.

I highly recommend that this company somehow be lumped into and added to anything the FBI is looking into. Scum like should be eradicated.

Images to follow.[/QUOTE]

Never heard of Prestine Auctions, are they new?

[QUOTE=qdoggmets;15686913]Many complain about the way terms of service are written with respect to auction owned items and shill bidding.

On that list is Heritage Auctions and Goldin Auctions.

Nobody seems to be as brazen or up front about their illegal activities as Prestine Auctions.

In this series of emails it shows they own the item in question and undeniably have a system in place to auto bid everyone to a hidden reserve.

I highly recommend that this company somehow be lumped into and added to anything the FBI is looking into. Scum like thos should be eradicated.

Images to follow.[/QUOTE]

Before you waste too much time on this.... because I've researched it and spoken to experts on the matter

"Hidden Reserves" are legal in certain states.... Arizona, where they are based, is one of them.

Its a completely ridiculous business practice but is legal.

Had an incident recently, with a very rare card in a PSA case where the cert number was visible, I was outbid and the card was listed again within 24 hours

They bid on their own item which they are the owner.

See attached images below of them admitting their system automatically bids up items they own, in their own auctions.

I guess I don't get it. What she explained sounds exactly like ebay.

Reserve bids are not illegal and common with some auction houses. If you don't like it don't give them your business but it doesn't make them scammers.

[QUOTE=ottobord;15687617]Reserve bids are not illegal and common with some auction houses. If you don't like it don't give them your business but it doesn't make them scammers.[/QUOTE]

Even if it's legal it's still a scam.

[QUOTE=qdoggmets;15687579]See attached images below of them admitting their system automatically bids up items they own, in their own auctions.[/QUOTE]

Yeah... it bids up to the hidden reserve.

This isn't new.

This has been going on forever (as mentioned multiple times in this thread)

[QUOTE=doowopbruce;15687633]Even if it's legal it's still a scam.[/QUOTE]

How is this a scam? Just read the policy.

And its Pristine Auction.

"Reserve Prices
Some auction Lots may have a minimum price that we are willing to accept for that Lot to be sold at auction (“Reserve Price”). If bidding does not meet or exceed the Reserve Price, the Lot shall be returned to the consignor or relisted into a future auction (at the sole discretion of the Company). Auctions with Reserve Prices display a high bid price in red on the listing page until the Reserve Price is met. Reserve prices are activated beginning 3 days prior to the auction end date.

In Reserve Price auctions, if your maximum bid exceeds or meets the Reserve Price, we automatically increase your bid to meet the Reserve Price, and bidding will continue from there. In addition, bids up to the Reserve Price may be placed by the Company on behalf of the seller up to where the next bid in succession would hit the Reserve Price.

Lots marked with a 'No Reserve' tag have met the reserve price or do not have a reserve price set.

All lots featured in the Daily Auction, Weekly Auction and Ten Minute Auction are always offered with no reserve price."
.

I just assume this happens with every eBay auction.

[img]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mf5s0vlkqO1rbn1qw.gif[/img]

Prestine only caters to clectors.

[QUOTE=asujbl;15687654]Yeah... it bids up to the hidden reserve.

This isn't new.

This has been going on forever (as mentioned multiple times in this thread)[/QUOTE]

I have not experienced this anywhere else on anything that I have bid on.

In this instance, I was the only bidder against the system which auto bid me, and only me up.

The terms say "may". This means to me, that there is no systematic auto bidding engine that "will" do it every single time, for every single item.

I am leaving out the fact that it was not obvious when looking at the item there was a reserve. It didn't say "reserve" anywhere. They use a color which you have to read the terms for to understand what it means.

I don't think I am missing anything here. When it comes to shilling, this auction house takes the cake in so many ways, and to my point, every one is complaining about every company but this one.

If I am to understand the situation correctly, I honestly don't see this as being a big deal.

Presuming the aforementioned; the item in question has a reserve-price, though it is not prominently/clearly mentioned in the listing. For argument sake, let's say it's $200. You place a initial bid of $125 and the listing now shows the high bid of $130. You proceed to go to $150, and now it shows high bid of $155. BUT,...there's no one else showing as a bidder?!? Is this correct...?

If so, it's not "shilling", "scamming", bid manipulation, etc. Summed up, it's simply a [B][COLOR="Red"]reserve price[/COLOR][/B], and is formatted differently from the way eBay does their reserves. Meaning,...with eBay, if the respective reserve for an item is not met but you still place a bid(s), the listing will still show you as the "high bidder". HOWEVER,...when the listing ends and if the reserve was still not reached,...well,...you might still end up being the highest bidder, but you didn't win the auction. With Pristine's format, (ie; the automatic/immediate, "bump bid") it simply conveys to the bidder(s),...[I]immediately[/I], as opposed to eBay; at the end of the listing, that your highest bid is....no good.

Again,...if I got it right, hopefully this gives a bit of clarity. If I'm wrong, then I wasted 3 minutes of my life. Either way....

In the state of Arizona you can have a hidden reserve - a hidden reserve is managed via auto-bidding up to that minimum - therefore its not shill bidding

It sucks, but its legal