What parts of the hobby would you consider toxic?
 

So I saw the LeBron exquisite thread and while I'm not about to sift through 3k posts (at least I don't think I will), it really opened my eyes to the murkier parts of the hobby; trimming, shilling etc. Until then, worst I've seen were some very rude and impatient collectors which I assumed was part and parcel being how impatient and angry sports fans can be and, of course, scammers.

That said, what do you think the hobby can be better off with? Anything from prizm speculators to trimmers and everything in between. I'd love to hear some personal anecdotes too.


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Shillers, trimmers, CONSIGNMENTS, hypers (the ones that shove their investments down our throats at every turn)...etc etc.

[QUOTE=ninjacookies;14360307]Shillers, trimmers, CONSIGNMENTS, hypers (the ones that shove their investments down our throats at every turn)...etc etc.[/QUOTE]



What's wrong with consignments?


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[QUOTE=abraxio;14360309]What's wrong with consignments?


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I think it's pretty self explanitory.

GOAT debates, especially on this forum.

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prospecting and panini

[QUOTE=ninjacookies;14360321]I think it's pretty self explanitory.[/QUOTE]



Care to explain anyway?


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[QUOTE=abraxio;14360345]Care to explain anyway?


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I mean, criminal activity being passed onto 3rd parties to mask identity?

This goes hand in hand with trimming, altering, forging...etc.

There's no accountability involved. A consignor pulls a listing, and the criminal simply tries resubmitting or uses another consignor until the fraudulent card is sold.

That's not even getting into the shilling aspect of people submitting and bidding on their own cards anonymously.


Ebay card consignors are the new age pawn shops of the ghettos. Except there's a lot more criminals on ebay and addicts looking for a quick buck. And you don't have your picture taken along with photo id when you submit to a consignor either.

[QUOTE=ninjacookies;14360307]Shillers, trimmers, CONSIGNMENTS, hypers (the ones that shove their investments down our throats at every turn)...etc etc.[/QUOTE]

Agree 100%

if its about money its toxic. there are 10,000+ MJ cards , i have a few but my favorites cost under $5 and show him as he played. the ones that cost money "the status cards are the toxic part of the hobby" they are picture cards that mark a place in time, treat them as such its a hobby.

I consider this [B]obsessive grading culture [/B]to be toxic + the [B]'bumping' [/B]phenomena.

Obviously agree with Timofey about the scam artists but also with the consignment situation. When I re-entered this hobby about 1 year ago I thought when I was buying from the Probstein/PWCC's of this world I was getting the best protection in every facet. Turns out I was way off. Whilst these particular two consignment routes are very professional and are SUPERB when it comes to International delivery it has become increasingly apparent they are excellent ways for the scam artist scumbag to put distance between himself and a fraudulent item. Not to mention how consignment facilitates rampant shilling which I believe has been discussed multiple times on this forum. However, it never ceases to amaze me when I see early, multiple & crazy bids on items. It took me losing my first auction to understand the only strategy is to snipe your highest price but these muppets are still going hammer and tong in the first couple 'o' days of the listing.

Much like what myusasets said, when the aspect of greed is involved that toxicity really busts out.

There's a lot of good stuff in this thread. I think that counterfeit cards are going to be a huge issue in the future (it already kind of is). As new technology is developed and becomes more accessible, I think there will be a flooding of high quality fakes into the market. Also, sports cards as an investment is a hot topic and one that many non-sports fans and those alike are becoming interested in, which is only going to fuel more crooks. What makes it worse is that there are many fake cards that grading companies have graded. Scammers already have the ability to encapsulate their fake cards into fake graded slabs, which is an issue that is only going to get worse.

Shilling an auction

Greed is the root of all toxicity in this "hobby" and for some reason unlike any other. I've never met a group of so called collectors who are more worried about how much they can make hyping up their stuff and flipping it.

You know, the guy that drives around to 5 different states to buy every single box of prizm on release and then sell them for double. That's not only pathetic but pretty low if you ask me. Or you know, the resident hype men who claim that they have no investment in some player and then turn around and are selling his cards a month later.

This thread [url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1271513[/url] is another perfect example of greed. The dude knows it's not legit but publicly admits that "it'll end up on the market eventually" so he wants to collect the commission on it.

I don't want to get into the "back in my day" stuff but this hobby has turned extremely toxic in the last few years. I've pretty much quit collecting entirely because the greed on display on this forum is very offputting.

Bottom line is there will be thieves in any industry. Like Eric, he is an obvious fraud and thief and no matter what he does that'll come out but it sure seems that flipping cards to make that extra penny really brings out the worst in people

[QUOTE=jcardstore;14360511]Greed is the root of all toxicity in this "hobby" and for some reason unlike any other. I've never met a group of so called collectors who are more worried about how much they can make hyping up their stuff and flipping it.

You know, the guy that drives around to 5 different states to buy every single box of prizm on release and then sell them for double. That's not only pathetic but pretty low if you ask me. Or you know, the resident hype men who claim that they have no investment in some player and then turn around and are selling his cards a month later.

This thread [url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1271513[/url] is another perfect example of greed. The dude knows it's not legit but publicly admits that "it'll end up on the market eventually" so he wants to collect the commission on it.

I don't want to get into the "back in my day" stuff but this hobby has turned extremely toxic in the last few years. I've pretty much quit collecting entirely because the greed on display on this forum is very offputting.[/QUOTE]

Anything that stems from greed... that was my answer, but you summed it up pretty damn well. I think folks are obviously going to “hype” or discuss what they like most... that’s part of the hobby to me. But when those cards end up for sale a month later???

[QUOTE=ballhawkdawk;14360517]Anything that stems from greed... that was my answer, but you summed it up pretty damn well. I think folks are obviously going to “hype” or discuss what they like most... that’s part of the hobby to me. But when those cards end up for sale a month later???[/QUOTE]

Oh I see it all the time. Those "PC Only" posts that somehow end up for sale shortly after

GREED. The love of money is the root of all evil.

NONE of the hobby itself is toxic, unfortunately, the hobby is scarce.

However, there are toxic things that "afflict" and affect the hobby and hobby enthusiasts:

- profiteers / degenerate gamblers
- pseudo-collectors that are actually profiteers constantly harping on prices going up and prospect prices going up for a certain card, cards, or player/players. (9/10 These are the same people who are driving the prices up themselves, conflict of interest anyone?)
- scammers / con artists (trimmers, those who alter cards, those who sell altered cards knowingly, which includes doctoring cards for higher grades, swapping patches and forging signatures and further getting those cards with forged signatures graded for the appearance of legitimacy)
- anyone that does business or in any way supports people who willfully engage in this iniquitous behavior, buying, selling, or trading with them.
- those who alter the market to try to fix prices on cards from a specific set, sets, or of a player, or players, this includes shillers and shilling is [I]very rampant[/I] in contemporary times.
- greed and selfishness, "I talk about collectors helping each other and being all about the community, but when you deal with me, I try to bleed you dry and the only helping is I help myself to as much of your money I can get you to drop." If you don't pay my exorbitant price, F you.

The best part is that any one can deny where their interests are at, but their behavior reveals their real intentions and lack of integrity. No one cares if they're selling you true legitimacy, they just care about the sale short or long term.

The rules to the game these people are now playing are simple:
1. buy high
2. make sure you advertise it through as many platforms as possible
3. sell higher.

In an overarching sense, the hobby is NOT alive and well, it's NOT strong, it's NOT improving, it's infested with parasites. From what I've observed, the hobby exists now, only in very few instances. It's a flaming, sinking ship otherwise, with the incentive of ever increasing amounts of money to be made from milking a hobby dry, counterfeiters, trimmers, card doctors, scam artists, con men, forgers and profiteers are pouring in faster than hobbyists.

[QUOTE=ninjacookies;14360307]Shillers, trimmers, CONSIGNMENTS, hypers (the ones that shove their investments down our throats at every turn)...etc etc.[/QUOTE]



Agreed 100%.


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[QUOTE=mj2kb;14360533]GREED. The love of money is the root of all evil.[/QUOTE]

Perfectly quoted biblical reference. I agree 💯! Money is not the root of all evil. It’s the LOVE of money.

Every time I see a thread like "Why is XYZ player not worth more? They are playing really well!" I automatically assume the thread starter is playing the money angle and has a stash of said player they'd like to offload.

I also know people who PC said potentially undervalued player are cringing when they see those posts. If you actually collect a player the last thing you want is for the price of entry to go up because hype artists are trying to make loot.

I think the biggest dangers all revolve around the fraud.
The most disturbing to me is what has come from the manufacturers. Every company has been responsible for back dooring big hits that were advertised as being in the product, releasing blank certified auto cards knowing they would be signed when they appeared on the market.
Then there are all of the scammers who alter cards in any number of ways that are difficult to detect from wiping autos and resigning, changing authentication stickers to non signed cards, patch swapping, trimming....
There are a number of things that I think are unhealthy for the hobby long term including the shift to high end, the destruction of set building (Contenders football is one that really stands out because all the variations seems to have killed that one), group breaking just because the number of people that do that strictly for gambling (I think it is awesome for collectors to be able to participate in something they could not otherwise afford).
There are plenty of others, but this is a good start.

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Wow some stuff mentioned here really opened my eyes, especially auto wiping and patch swapping. I just think it's crazy that they're willing to have a fake auto and patch on their card so long as it makes them money. Guess they're not true collectors.

It is true though, the bigger this hobby gets the more parasites rear their ugly heads. I just recently got scammed on Facebook marketplace and were it not for PayPal stepping in, I would have been out $250. Who makes all that effort of creating a fake identity for a measly $250????

Sometimes I really do worry what the future holds for the hobby since, as some mentioned earlier, these problems weren't so rampant a few years back


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I have never blamed the hobby itself for the issues. It is the people who take advantage of the people within the hobby and manipulate the hobby that is the worse.

Scammers, trimmers, shillers, consigners, profiteers, etc. etc. etc. It all comes back to shady people who take advantage of honest people trying to enjoy some cardboard.