What’s it going to take to revitalize the NBA card hobby?
 

The 2024-25 basketball card release season is already dead and we just got started. The hoops card hobby is as down as it has ever been. What needs to happen to recharge the excitement and make the basketball card hobby great again?

Bronny

Getting the NBA back to a watchable sport would be a good start.

It depends what you mean by revitalize basketball cards. Do you mean increase the value of cards? Do you mean get people collecting players/teams/sets again? Do you mean get people talking about cards again?

To me, revitalizing cards/hobby is more about card and collecting consumption than card values. And that's a tough battle to fight. You see it in baseball where team, player, set, run collectors are still thriving but baseball has a lot more history and collectors care about that history. Most basketball collectors seem to prioritize maximizing the value and status of their collection.

[QUOTE=volblorx8634;19871221]It depends what you mean by revitalize basketball cards. Do you mean increase the value of cards? Do you mean get people collecting players/teams/sets again? Do you mean get people talking about cards again?

To me, revitalizing cards/hobby is more about card and collecting consumption than card values. And that's a tough battle to fight. You see it in baseball where team, player, set, run collectors are still thriving but baseball has a lot more history and collectors care about that history. Most basketball collectors seem to prioritize maximizing the value and status of their collection.[/QUOTE]

I mean everything. What’s going to bring the collectors and investors back again. What’s going to make the sport number two again behind the nfl? What’s going to make customers buy basketball wax instead of the other sports and non-sports when they go to a shop or decide to join a break? What’s going to bring folks back to shows to hunt for their favorite players and sets?

It’s frankly dead now - OKC and CLE don’t have any long-lasting hobby-boosting stimuli. The cream of the crop is already super pricey with only space to fall.

What’s going to bring hobbyists from other sports back into basketball?

This class is weaker so the players may take a while to come along. Meanwhile, if you are asking where the hype is, look no further than Cooper Flagg's bowman 1st cards which are selling for exorbitant amounts.

[QUOTE=kipgen;19871231]This class is weaker so the players may take a while to come along. Meanwhile, if you are asking where the hype is, look no further than Cooper Flagg's bowman 1st cards which are selling for exorbitant amounts.[/QUOTE]

Are you really counting on AK48 to make the hobby great again? Plus, he’s a dookie, they don’t have very good hobby track records.

He seems like a perfect candidate for the pump and dump crowd and that’s not what I’m looking for. Basketball guys have been burned enough over the last five years.

[QUOTE=hermanotarjeta;19871233]Are you really counting on AK48 to make the hobby great again? Plus, he’s a dookie, they don’t have very good hobby track records.

He seems like a perfect candidate for the pump and dump crowd and that’s not what I’m looking for. Basketball guys have been burned enough over the last five years.[/QUOTE]

What exactly are you looking for?

[QUOTE=kipgen;19871234]What exactly are you looking for?[/QUOTE]

Not just the “next one” but the stimulus that will get the people loving all of the NBA again, including the vets, ie, the entire NBA package.

I think that teams like the Pacers, OKC, Boston, Cavs are a perfect ecosystem for team collectors to grow. How many dealers in local markets and at shows are presenting that in a way that is cohesive and encourages team collecting to take root?

Judging by the extremely rare cards of the player I collect going for relative pennies, while being a driving force on one of the long term best teams in the Midwest, not many.

If Luka, and LeBron win a title I imagine the short term bump would be big. Honestly though, (and I just got back into the hobby since I was a kid in the 90's) It seems like all values were based off of Victor Wembanyama. Everyone here has a better understanding of the hobby then me but it's crazy how some players have huge hobby value and some don't. Like, I know that big men dont get much Hobby love but you look at what Jokic is doing on a nightly basis and it's so amazing but doesn't move the hobby needle at all. Meanwhile, and I know he is hurt but people would lose their minds if Wemby had a 30/20/20 game or a 60/10/10 which Jokic has done just in the last month. Like I said, I'm new to this world but there are the "anointed" Kings of the hobby that have to less than other player to see their values rise. Some of it is likeability and I get that. Like Jayson Tatum is just not a really likable player for some reason and thats fine but the hobby really just decreases it's chances to grow or maintain popularity when the performance of a certain percentage of players is all that matters. If the Cavs win a championship this year it would be an incredible story and be really cool for the sport but the Hobby would be better served with another Curry or LeBron title or SGA getting his first.

I typed all this as entered my brain, incoherent ramblings.

You all probably witnessed the Zion craze. Is there a reset that needs to happen after such a highly touted player doesn't live up to the hype? I mean, there is only so much money to go around so if the average person got themselves way upside down in Zion cards, they presumably have less expendable money to spend on other players down the road. I think Wemby is the real deal and is destined for some great things. That said, it would be disastrous for him to fail as there is so much money tied up in him right now.

[QUOTE=CardClub2Elect;19871255]If Luka, and LeBron win a title I imagine the short term bump would be big. Honestly though, (and I just got back into the hobby since I was a kid in the 90's) It seems like all values were based off of Victor Wembanyama. Everyone here has a better understanding of the hobby then me but it's crazy how some players have huge hobby value and some don't. Like, I know that big men dont get much Hobby love but you look at what Jokic is doing on a nightly basis and it's so amazing but doesn't move the hobby needle at all. Meanwhile, and I know he is hurt but people would lose their minds if Wemby had a 30/20/20 game or a 60/10/10 which Jokic has done just in the last month. Like I said, I'm new to this world but there are the "anointed" Kings of the hobby that have to less than other player to see their values rise. Some of it is likeability and I get that. Like Jayson Tatum is just not a really likable player for some reason and thats fine but the hobby really just decreases it's chances to grow or maintain popularity when the performance of a certain percentage of players is all that matters. If the Cavs win a championship this year it would be an incredible story and be really cool for the sport but the Hobby would be better served with another Curry or LeBron title or SGA getting his first.

I typed all this as entered my brain, incoherent ramblings.

You all probably witnessed the Zion craze. Is there a reset that needs to happen after such a highly touted player doesn't live up to the hype? I mean, there is only so much money to go around so if the average person got themselves way upside down in Zion cards, they presumably have less expendable money to spend on other players down the road. I think Wemby is the real deal and is destined for some great things. That said, it would be disastrous for him to fail as there is so much money tied up in him right now.[/QUOTE]

Your point that the NBA hobby is an “all or nothing” phenomena is an interesting observation. It feels like all the other sports have a stronger team following whereas the NBA is more star focused, which may reflect what made the NBA such a strong product four decades ago but isn’t working as well today, especially if the mega stars are simply unlikable.

It won’t be revitalized until Panini starts releasing Keith Van Horn cards again

[B]Jokic is doing on a nightly basis and it's so amazing but doesn't move the hobby needle at all. [/B]

I know it's more pop based but his Prizm PSA 10 RC is like $800 and a guy like Luka is barely $300. That isn't nothing.

Also, we are shifting to an era of team ball. Haliburton, the supposed star of the Pacers, is best known for his turnover-to-assist ratio. I mean that is what we point to statistically to show why he is great. Nesmith, we look at the 50/40/90 metric and clutch points because 16 points a game, baked into the team sharing principles, doesn't capture the efficiency.

OKC as well. Shai is great, but he is also part of a greater team of potentially collectible players. I think that shifting to the mindset of "star-plus" creates all kinds of opportunities. It has served baseball well, even if not many fans attend the actual games any more.

I love hearing.... The problem is that the game is so bad!.....

But also....

The Thunder and the Cavs don't move the hobby!


Which one is it folks? Those two teams are playing some of the best basketball out there. Considering that neither have an all time great roster, you could argue that they have both played historically great basketball for their level of talent.

They will also get a lot more exposure this playoffs. It's gradual.

People in NY now have history with Pacers, seeing them as the villain series stealers of last year. Indy is a really fun team to watch and only this year got a few marquee television games.

Cavs didn't really get any attention until this season.

OKC was seen as bland. It still is by those who haven't seen them recently.

The rivalries need time to build and gel, particularly among teams that can keep the basic core together a few seasons. Denver was not really a fun team and they lost three key pieces directly after winning. Boston will have a huge target, a lot of people will tune in to whatever series they play, rooting for the underdog.

Knicks have really developed a fanbase. I always thought their fans were anemic and conditioned to losing. Now they are loud and annoying. And Warriors and Lakers have their west coast adherents, both are interesting teams with a good mix of veteran stars.

Can dealers explain that to collectors? Should they have that responsibility?

caitlin clark and bronny go one on one

/ thread

I think there's two different conversations here:

1. What's the state of the NBA?

2. What's the state of basketball card collecting?

They could affect each other, but don't have to. I also think the whole collecting is dead thing is overblown. People are still collecting sets, players, teams etc. even if they don't tell you about it online.

For the first time ever, there soon will not be a player who is actively being pumped as THE/A GOAT.

That is a hobby sport specific headwind.

Stop players like Luka from doing the hunched over, palms up, crybaby act after EVERY play.

Decrease 3 pointers so it's actually basketball.

Stop paying players like Embiid, Harden, Leonard, Simmons, Butler, George, Etc $500,000 per game.

Basically, fix the NBA and the cards will follow

I thought nomad started this thread

you've fallen far hermano

The game has some fixing to do. I still think the simple answer is to bring back some hand check rules and encourage defensive play. As mentioned, teams like OKC and CLE aren't going to move the larger NBA ratings. Also a Lakers run would spark a big ratings bonanza. The NBA lives on star players defining an era. We are at the end of the Lebron/Curry era. When the next player fills in, things will feel more normal. It might be as simple as Wemby mania to kick in again.

As far as cards, those always follow the rookie class. This year is no good. Flagg will bring in a bunch of rippers/flippers. There will always be the next big hype thing to get the current year's card pricing pumping. This year maybe the exception.

All this to say, I think the NBA is in a dip right now. It will be back soon enough. It just takes a big media narrative to pump all the algorithms and get back into the culture zeitgeist.

[QUOTE=boxbuster7;19871437]I thought nomad started this thread

you've fallen far hermano[/QUOTE]

I'm an insidious influence.

Since Wemby has cooled off Copper Flagg has to be legit. The hobby needs that guy. Jordan hasn't had any cards in his Bulls Uni since 09. Kobe hasn't had any cards since his untimely passing. LeBron seems to have fallen a bit and isn't that guy anymore. There are a few tier 2 guys right now (Curry, Joker, Giannis, SGA, Luka, maybe Tatum?) and tier 2 hof'ers (Magic, Bird, Kareem, Shaq) but no tier one right now.

Wemby was that guy for a bit but that passed. As crazy ad it sounds, LeBron isn't that level anymore excluding a few key rc's/exquisite.

So forget the team concept, the legacy players, the shades of greatness, we need another money-vacuum hype name.

[QUOTE=blackvodka;19871492]Since Wemby has cooled off Copper Flagg has to be legit. The hobby needs that guy. Jordan hasn't had any cards in his Bulls Uni since 09. Kobe hasn't had any cards since his untimely passing. LeBron seems to have fallen a bit and isn't that guy anymore. There are a few tier 2 guys right now (Curry, Joker, Giannis, SGA, Luka, maybe Tatum?) and tier 2 hof'ers (Magic, Bird, Kareem, Shaq) but no tier one right now.

Wemby was that guy for a bit but that passed. [B] As crazy ad it sounds, LeBron isn't that level anymore excluding a few key rc's/exquisite.[/B][/QUOTE]

His 2024 Prizm gold is selling in the $25-50k range, and his 2012 Prizm gold just sold for over a half million

Just the past 2 months in public auctions:
2016 Prizm Gold: $28k
2006 Credentials Now: $93k
2012 Prizm Silver BGS 10: $20k
2013 Kaboom PSA 10: $43k
2020 Prizm Gold Shimmer: $20k
2015 Galactic: $24k

I'm not quite sure you're on the mark here.

Stop charging $300 for every hobby box and $30 for every blaster that 90% of the time gives you back $10 or less worth of cards.

That would be a start.

[QUOTE=Giantrobot;19871553]Stop charging $300 for every hobby box and $30 for every blaster that 90% of the time gives you back $10 or less worth of cards.

That would be a start.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this, but is this not the same in baseball? Isn't wax overpriced, overprinted, and terrible value? Yet seemingly with every release, there's a bunch of people from that forum ripping some form of hobby or retail. I wonder why the discrepancy/what's different?

Also note, despite being one of the most active "hobby talk" places online, very few responses have much to do with anything but how much cards are selling for. Imo, that's the main issue in addition to wax prices. Basketball is too market focused rather than collecting/card focused

[QUOTE=volblorx8634;19871555]I agree with this, but is this not the same in baseball? Isn't wax overpriced, overprinted, and terrible value? Yet seemingly with every release, there's a bunch of people from that forum ripping some form of hobby or retail. I wonder why the discrepancy/what's different?

Also note, despite being one of the most active "hobby talk" places online, very few responses have much to do with anything but how much cards are selling for. Imo, that's the main issue in addition to wax prices. Basketball is too market focused rather than collecting/card focused[/QUOTE]

The poor ROI has also been the way things are pretty much any time other than a brief period between 2017-2020.

Even then, starting in 2019, things got hard to find at SRP.

Wax isn't overpriced if people are willing to pay for it

We'll know wax is too expensive when people stop buying it and the price goes down (like what happened this year with prizm '24-25)

[QUOTE=tjforce;19871558]The poor ROI has also been the way things are pretty much any time other than a brief period between 2017-2020.

Even then, starting in 2019, things got hard to find at SRP.[/QUOTE]


But that’s different now that SRP is 2X-4X what it used to be. Terrible ROI on a $60 hoops box is a lot different than a $130 hoops box. Same with a $100 Prizm box vs $500


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=Nomad;19871535]So forget the team concept, the legacy players, the shades of greatness, we need another money-vacuum hype name.[/QUOTE]The team concepts along legacy players and shades of greatness are awesome, and real collectors love that stuff. Sadly, it's a small percentage of collectors. It doesn't really sell wax. It's just the reality of where things are at right now.

I don't really have many complaints. I'm aware that breakers have WAY overinflated the price of wax, and I avoid breaks like the plague and stick to singles. For these people, yes, a money- vacumm hype player will be what they are looking for. Let them crazy overpay and grab the better cards on the cheap.

Sent from my SM-A236U using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=Nomad;19871281]They will also get a lot more exposure this playoffs. It's gradual.

People in NY now have history with Pacers, seeing them as the villain series stealers of last year. Indy is a really fun team to watch and only this year got a few marquee television games.

Cavs didn't really get any attention until this season.

OKC was seen as bland. It still is by those who haven't seen them recently.

The rivalries need time to build and gel, particularly among teams that can keep the basic core together a few seasons. Denver was not really a fun team and they lost three key pieces directly after winning. Boston will have a huge target, a lot of people will tune in to whatever series they play, rooting for the underdog.

Knicks have really developed a fanbase. I always thought their fans were anemic and conditioned to losing. Now they are loud and annoying. And Warriors and Lakers have their west coast adherents, both are interesting teams with a good mix of veteran stars.

Can dealers explain that to collectors? Should they have that responsibility?[/QUOTE]

I'm still not sure exactly what you want to happen here. What responsibility? Collectors see a player, they go "whoa who is that" and want to buy his cards, or they're unimpressed and they don't.

Unfortunately, money is a finite resource and not every player (or every card) is made equally and so will not have equal desire. What you're describing sounds like you're crafting some kind of narrative for dealers to sell to collectors in order to get them to buy bums that literally nobody will remember in five years.

Nah, nothing like that. But you could feature stuff in cases as sets that takes some time to build up and is a good starter to expand from.

An example, the way I am thinking of doing it, is breaking the Nesmith collection into lots associated with each brand. None is like a rainbow, most have even rarer versions of cards out there that would make the collection greater.

But like the Optic rookie set would have the green dragon, a true gold, a gold disco, a black laser, a jersey number. Stuff that it would take years to find and put together on one's own.

A collector would consider the lot real value for $500 or whatever, even if they don't see a lot of market hype for Nesmith per se. As with a lot of early-mid-career players, you could point to upward potential and future profits.

Now I am such a collector and have invested so little, I would rather trade for like of a similar player. OG Anunoby. Diversify.

That's one way to move product when singles of players aren't moving. Get a meaningful set together, tell a story. Some of the older dealers in the baseball-centric shows probably have that angle going. Team sets. Binders.

[QUOTE=volblorx8634;19871562]But that’s different now that SRP is 2X-4X what it used to be. Terrible ROI on a $60 hoops box is a lot different than a $130 hoops box. Same with a $100 Prizm box vs $500


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

And the stuff you get it in is still multiples of what it sold for pre-2017.

I'm thinking back to 2016... for $20 you could get a blaster of Prizm and really the only base card you could get your money back on was a Ben Simmons rookie... and his Silver might have gotten you $75 raw (PSA 10s were between $300 and $200 that year). That was the top card.

I'm looking through my COMC purchase history.. back in 2017 LeBron Prizm Silvers were going for $1.5-$2.0. At least now if you hit one you have a $20 card.

So now you might pay $30 for a blaster and only get $20 in value, but back they you were paying $20 and only getting $10 back. It's always been a losing prop.

[QUOTE=kipgen;19871560]Wax isn't overpriced if people are willing to pay for it

We'll know wax is too expensive when people stop buying it and the price goes down (like what happened this year with prizm '24-25)[/QUOTE]

They have…that’s why stuff is sitting on the shelves again at Wal-Mart.

[QUOTE=volblorx8634;19871562]But that’s different now that SRP is 2X-4X what it used to be. Terrible ROI on a $60 hoops box is a lot different than a $130 hoops box. Same with a $100 Prizm box vs $500


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Exactly. It’s not much fun throwing away that much money on a regular basis. Which is why I don’t anymore. I used to buy multiple hobby boxes a month. I might open 5-10 the entire year now.

Will never happen with players jumping ship every two years to join up with another new combo. The NBA will never be what it once was unless DRASTIC changes are made.

[QUOTE=Nomad;19871281]They will also get a lot more exposure this playoffs. It's gradual.

People in NY now have history with Pacers, seeing them as the villain series stealers of last year. Indy is a really fun team to watch and only this year got a few marquee television games.

Cavs didn't really get any attention until this season.

OKC was seen as bland. It still is by those who haven't seen them recently.

[B]The rivalries need time to build and gel[/B], particularly among teams that can keep the basic core together a few seasons. Denver was not really a fun team and they lost three key pieces directly after winning. Boston will have a huge target, a lot of people will tune in to whatever series they play, rooting for the underdog.

Knicks have really developed a fanbase. I always thought their fans were anemic and conditioned to losing. Now they are loud and annoying. And Warriors and Lakers have their west coast adherents, both are interesting teams with a good mix of veteran stars.

Can dealers explain that to collectors? Should they have that responsibility?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=hermanotarjeta;19871240]Not just the “next one” but the stimulus that will get the people loving all of the NBA again, including the vets, ie, the entire NBA package.[/QUOTE]

Analytics have made the sport mostly unwatchable. Nobody wants to see a team miss 40 3s in a game. It has ruined the product.

On top of that you have Curry, Lebron, Durant aging out and Embiid always hurt now. Those are 4/5 best players in the NBA the last several years.

The "can't-miss" phenoms need to actually deliver and stay on court. That's one big part of it.

[QUOTE=BlowoutBuzz;19872070]The "can't-miss" phenoms need to actually deliver and [B]stay on court.[/B] That's one big part of it.[/QUOTE]

Good luck getting rid of "load management."

[QUOTE=gomiamigo;19872063]Analytics have made the sport mostly unwatchable. Nobody wants to see a team miss 40 3s in a game. It has ruined the product.

On top of that you have Curry, Lebron, Durant aging out and Embiid always hurt now. Those are 4/5 best players in the NBA the last several years.[/QUOTE]

The 3’s are a major problem. It’s a lazy way to plod through the regular season and preserve health for the playoffs.

It’s yet another sign the players show they don’t care about the regular season, they are just trying to stay healthy enough for the big contracts.

[QUOTE=Giantrobot;19871553]Stop charging $300 for every hobby box and $30 for every blaster that 90% of the time gives you back $10 or less worth of cards.

That would be a start.[/QUOTE]

This is where I'm at too. I haven't bought an NBA Hobby box in 5 years. I can see an increase, as everything has gone up, but at any given time before that you could go find say status, donruss etc for around $40, sometimes cheaper. I'm not paying $300+ for that type of break. I mean, look at the beak section. It used to be once a new product dropped you could post a break and by the afternoon you might be on page 3. Now page 1 can easily be 3 months behind and without wnba prizm it might be 4, and most of the listings are retail not even hobby. Sorry for the rant. Long way of saying I agree.

I think once we get a new wave of a good Rookie class on top of TOPPS Licensed autos people can start to forget about all the parallels from PRIZM, OPTIC, ETC.

Too many of today's stars burned a LOT of collectors who turned into primarily investors. While the Collectors are still around, the Investors are just staying around the Low hanging fruit MJ, Kobe, Curry, Lebron etc, and any soon to be HOF (Jokic).

Money in non auto Prizm rcs, and or last 5 year rookies have not been kind to the poket book.

So now is the time to invest in those undervalued 2019-22 rookies that you think have this window to actually emerge. But to do that you need to do a Brunson and look beyond the obvious.

Is there a healthy medium between investor and collector? Investors had a major run but it priced out and disinterested your everyday (or occasional) collector. Particularly in basketball because the player pool is low. Even looking at some of the "advocates", they run through boxes like it's the 10th hour on the assembly line :( Bring back some of that zeal we had and you may find a resurrection.

[QUOTE=Nomad;19872273]So now is the time to invest in those undervalued 2019-22 rookies that you think have this window to actually emerge. But to do that you need to do a Brunson and look beyond the obvious.[/QUOTE]
Maybe?:

Basketball is so hard to speculate afterwards 4 years+ out. Unless the person is just on a bad team. Usually for Basketball it seems the Cream rises to the TOP fast.

Like just the Hall of Famers and perennial all stars they were always good early.

So hard to collect (invest good money) when the player will be as good as a Bradley Beal or Jimmy Butler but is that (All Star) worth investing in, flipping I guess (Sell the good years)? Brunson is great, if he was not in New York does he just fall in the All star flavor of the year bucket?

I guess Giannis, and a hurt Curry you had 2-3 years to speculate before they were Fire.

[QUOTE=spurs50fan;19872290]Even looking at some of the "advocates", they run through boxes like it's the 10th hour on the assembly line :( Bring back some of that zeal we had and you may find a resurrection.[/QUOTE]

They not only run through the line, they brag about it. "19 hours of Imacc? I'm good, done 24 before with Deca."

Liking these Wemby [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3eHj8zGd5o&t=530s"]GU duals[/URL], by the way.

[QUOTE=Nomad;19872273]So now is the time to invest in those undervalued 2019-22 rookies that you think have this window to actually emerge. But to do that you need to do a Brunson and look beyond the obvious.[/QUOTE]

Those years are so undesirable because they will never reach Covid price levels ever again.

Most people would prefer to just forget about the overproduction and overparallelization.

I like the idea of tariffing all cards of international players at shows. You want Giannis or Luka? Gotta pay 25% extra.

I’m convinced that will jump start the card popularity of American-born players, which are the majority in the NBA. It would make the basketball hobby rich again.

At least that is what I was told.

I would hate to see Mathurin, Nembhard, and Siakam on the Pacers get penalized for being Canadian. I mean, they have a few things to teach us.

When Lebron announces his retirement, it will revitalize the card market for a while.

Plenty of people will race to Ebay and scoop up anything they can get their hands on, similar to what happened when Kobe passed.

Cooper Flagg. As long as there is something to gamble on people will flock to the wax. The degens are all flocking to pokemon right now, they just need something to get a gambling fix on.

[url]https://x.com/Will__Stern/status/1907931717928914949[/url]

It's funny to come to Blowout and read the gloom-and-doom narrative. And then go to social media and read the hype-it-to-the-moon narrative.

I imagine things are somewhere in between.

Baksetball cards market has been developing an uptrend for at least couple of months. MJ nice stuff (and also some Kobe stuff) are making new record sales. What makes you say "The hoops card hobby is as down as it has ever been"? There are more hobby participants in basketball cards than ever, even more than in 90s. The last month total sale volume on Ebay was basically the same as at the peak of 2021 boom.

You must be talking about new prospects of 2024-25 class or some other ultra modern stuff related to new prospects and hype around them?

[QUOTE=Nomad;19872347]I would hate to see Mathurin, Nembhard, and Siakam on the Pacers get penalized for being Canadian. I mean, they have a few things to teach us.[/QUOTE]

Siakam is not Canadian

He is from Cameroon

[QUOTE=codered;19872787]Siakam is not Canadian

He is from Cameroon[/QUOTE]

Yeah... right next to each other on a map.

[QUOTE=Torro;19872749]Baksetball cards market has been developing an uptrend for at least couple of months. MJ nice stuff (and also some Kobe stuff) are making new record sales. What makes you say "The hoops card hobby is as down as it has ever been"? There are more hobby participants in basketball cards than ever, even more than in 90s. The last month total sale volume on Ebay was basically the same as at the peak of 2021 boom.

You must be talking about new prospects of 2024-25 class or some other ultra modern stuff related to new prospects and hype around them?[/QUOTE]

Basketball cards has clearly taken a backseat to football and baseball cards - and we’re entering the nba playoffs.

What exactly are people buying like crazy in basketball out there? For every buyer, there’s a seller who wants to get out.

[QUOTE=codered;19872787]Siakam is not Canadian

He is from Cameroon[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=tjforce;19872794]Yeah... right next to each other on a map.[/QUOTE]

It doesn’t matter what country he’s from - Tariffs either way!

I think fanatics moving forward (I have no faith in panini as they ride out) needs to find a way to get a small handful of releases directly into collectors hands at a reasonable price. The over saturation of breakers/breaking as opposed to people opening their own boxes has definitely made the hobby less fun.

These releases need to be reasonably priced with a fixed ceiling. Said product can also not be sold in hobby shops or be used in online breaks with breakers. Fanatics would have to penalize any shops or breakers that try to resell with suspension of product/accounts

It wasn’t that long ago when I new released would come out and the break section would be full of personal breaks of new products. If you posted a break mid day, it would most likely be on the second page by the evening after more people posted their breaks. People enjoy personal in hand breaks, they are a fun experience. It’s a much different experience then watching breaks on line and just picking up the singles you like. Breakers have inflated wax prices to a point where most people realize it doesn’t make much sense to break personal boxes.

[QUOTE=hermanotarjeta;19872798]It doesn’t matter what country he’s from - Tariffs either way![/QUOTE]

Can't tell if that that thud is from a mic drop, or from everyone's 401k hitting the floor!!!

[QUOTE=tjforce;19871558]The poor ROI has also been the way things are pretty much any time other than a brief period between 2017-2020.

Even then, starting in 2019, things got hard to find at SRP.[/QUOTE]

I think average ROI use to be better pre 2018 than today. Pre 2018 you could wait out a product like certified. You might only get $15-20 worth of cards per box on average but a few months after release that product was $50-60 a box.
You don’t see that today. Price on wax start high and might drop a little but often your getting $20-30 worth of cards from a box north of $200.

Biggest difference on ROI today is there is way more “lottery” cards.

[QUOTE=tjforce;19872826]Can't tell if that that thud is from a mic drop, or from everyone's 401k hitting the floor!!![/QUOTE]

Shhh…..we aren’t supposed to be checking those :doh::doh::doh:

[QUOTE=tjforce;19872826]Can't tell if that that thud is from a mic drop, or from everyone's 401k hitting the floor!!![/QUOTE]

Buy da dip!

The reality is that the card market is over-saturated....there are simply too many products being released, across all sports.

How many cards of any given player does any collector need? I can't even keep track of all the Stephen Curry cards being released, and he's only one of about 8-10 players I PC across all five sports.

That said, I think three things COULD revitalize the NBA segment of the hobby:

- Fanatics buying the rights to Jordan cards from Upper Deck (they can certainly afford to do so)

- the upcoming switch of the exclusive from Panini to Topps, which will allow Topps to create some Heritage/Archives style retro NBA products like they did in the 00's.

- the development of some lower-end product line (i.e. box prices at $100 or less) that collectors could actually afford to buy/rip. The number one factor that keeps many people away from NBA products (myself included) is the lack of affordable wax to rip.

Does Panini release [B]ANY[/B] affordable products? Even Donruss, the supposed lowest-end brand, is $250+ for a hobby box!
-

Michael Rubin will never get access to MJ.

Never

[QUOTE=mfw13;19872841]The reality is that the card market is over-saturated....there are simply too many products being released, across all sports.

How many cards of any given player does any collector need? I can't even keep track of all the Stephen Curry cards being released, and he's only one of about 8-10 players I PC across all five sports.

That said, I think three things COULD revitalize the NBA segment of the hobby:

- Fanatics buying the rights to Jordan cards from Upper Deck (they can certainly afford to do so)

- the upcoming switch of the exclusive from Panini to Topps, which will allow Topps to create some Heritage/Archives style retro NBA products like they did in the 00's.

- the development of some lower-end product line (i.e. box prices at $100 or less) that collectors could actually afford to buy/rip. The number one factor that keeps many people away from NBA products (myself included) is the lack of affordable wax to rip.

Does Panini release [B]ANY[/B] affordable products? Even Donruss, the supposed lowest-end brand, is $250+ for a hobby box!
-[/QUOTE]

More choices of cards for a collector to collect is never a bad thing

Affordable (to the average person) products that are worth opening

Most of the trash offering shouldn't even be over a hundred bucks per box

It’s interesting to note that superstar cards (Curry and LeBron) numbered to 50 or less can be found for less than $20.

[QUOTE=hermanotarjeta;19872937]It’s interesting to note that superstar cards (Curry and LeBron) numbered to 50 or less can be found for less than $20.[/QUOTE]

It's great. Most people understand now that you can't just throw a serial number on a junk card and make it valuable.

The same thing drives collectability now as it did 30 years ago: Aesthetics, design, lineage, significance... and then rarity

[QUOTE=kipgen;19872892]More choices of cards for a collector to collect is never a bad thing[/QUOTE]

Yes and no.

If those choices are noticeably different from each other in terms of price point or design, then yes....more choice is good.

But if all the "choices" are virtually identical, then they become largely irrelevant.

[QUOTE=tjforce;19872940]It's great. Most people understand now that you can't just throw a serial number on a junk card and make it valuable.

The same thing drives collectability now as it did 30 years ago: Aesthetics, design, lineage, significance... and then rarity[/QUOTE]

If only what you said was true.

Look at what Fanatics did with Heritage HHN.....look at all the gamblers who support breakers.....they all still believe that artificial scarcity = value.

And collectability is becoming largely irrelevant as breakers/gamblers/investors take over the hobby....all that matters is profit potential.....just witness all the people who still prepay for products before checklists are released.

[QUOTE=BostonNut;19871215]Getting the NBA back to a watchable sport would be a good start.[/QUOTE]You don't like 75-100 three pointers shot between the teams almost every night? Lol.

[QUOTE=kipgen;19872892]More choices of cards for a collector to collect is never a bad thing[/QUOTE]

I agree. Great time to be a collector. In the last couple weeks I've added a PC gold /10 for $2.25 and a first ballot HOFer parallel /15 for a rainbow for $19.50. Both shipped including tax. That's wild and the great part of the oversaturation/overproduction/hyping/flipping/investment culture of basketball cards now. You can get cards you like for almost nothing, like you said not a bad thing.