Robot Umps Are Not The Answer
 

I was at the Charlotte knights game last night and there were 20 walks in 7 innings. They need to at least give it some room for error.

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I'm fine with it. Pitchers will adjust and throw more strikes, and maybe we see more offense.

[QUOTE=Davis;19009223]I'm fine with it. Pitchers will adjust and throw more strikes, and maybe we see more offense.[/QUOTE]

Agree, make the pitchers work harder. The mistakes are just ridiculous right now.

I've rarely seen the robot umpire make a mistake when it was being tested at the Southern Maryland Blue Crabs in the Independent League. Umpires make tons of garbage calls each night with some of them not even close.

Get Elon Musk to fix it to make it work!

[QUOTE=JRX;19009219]I was at the Charlotte knights game last night and there were 20 walks in 7 innings. They need to at least give it some room for error.

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I kind of agree, a pitch 1/16 of an inch off the plate should be a strike, make the batter swing.

[QUOTE=Boo;19009242]I kind of agree, a pitch 1/16 of an inch off the plate should be a strike, make the batter swing.[/QUOTE]Right that's my point, if they make it too precise you're going to end up with disasters like I saw last night.

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[QUOTE=JRX;19009248]Right that's my point, if they make it too precise you're going to end up with disasters like I saw last night.

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Real umps with 2 challenges per game on ball/strike calls?

Some bad minor league pitchers who couldn't throw strikes is no reason to scrap the idea that a strike is a strike and a ball is a ball. Pitchers will stop nibbling as much, but will certainly adjust. Major league pitchers can absolutely throw strikes if they want to without walking people. Your example is an outlier. Roboumps have not had that effect in most cases.

[QUOTE=JRX;19009219]I was at the Charlotte knights game last night and there were 20 walks in 7 innings. They need to at least give it some room for error.

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Sounds like those pitchers sucked. Yes, robot umps are not the answer to the question of how to get pitchers to throw more strikes. Pitchers and their coaches are on the hook for that...

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How bad were the human umpires that the robot umpire appeals resulted in 20 walks?

Just think, if the networks never would’ve thrown that square on the screen we wouldn’t be calling perfect balls strikes while sitting on our sofas. Umpires have it so easy without that imaginary square w/ all the movement on 100+mph. There’s no way I’m watching sports in the future if umps cannot determine millimeter strike calls. My fantasy sports depend on it.

People were going to runaway and never watch baseball again because of bigger bases and a pitch clock. I've not seen a single complaint about the game having a pitch clock in months. Robot Umps are coming (sooner than later hopefully). Get use to it. It's either a strike or not. Pitchers, Hitters and Teams will adjust. They always do. You will as well.

Fine with robot umps, fine with pitch clock. Hate that teams can't align their defense however they see fit. That's my only problem, personally.

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We need to stop accepting & awarding ‘you’re close, so it’s a strike’. The plate is 17 inches wide. A baseball is 2.9 inches in diameter. So the center of the baseball can be 1.44 inches off the plate and still be a strike, 18.44 inches away from the batter’s inside plate corner.

[QUOTE=Boo;19009242]I kind of agree, [B]a pitch[/B] 1/16 of an inch [B]off the plate[/B] should be a strike, make the batter swing.[/QUOTE]

That’s dumb.

[QUOTE=Biohazarddfl;19009346]Fine with robot umps, fine with pitch clock. Hate that teams can't align their defense however they see fit. That's my only problem, personally.

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I agree with this. Batters need to adapt and be ‘hitters’. Not every batted ball needs to go over the outfield wall. The game needs more Tony Gwynn’s.

ABS will probably be in the majors by 2025. next year may be too soon

[QUOTE=JeremyNick;19009370]That’s dumb.[/QUOTE]

Off the plate = not a strike. It's truly that simple. Doesnt matter if its 1/100th off. It's OFF.

Left to right is easy. But how does the robo ump determine up/down strikes? Every batter is different and one could adjust their stance during the at bat.

[QUOTE=JRX;19009219]I was at the Charlotte knights game last night and there were 20 walks in 7 innings. They need to at least give it some room for error.

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Sounds like the pitchers need more work on their control.

Robot umps give the hitters and the pitchers a consistent strike zone while playing in the minors which is a good thing.

[QUOTE=Rememberthepast;19009380]Left to right is easy. But how does the robo ump determine up/down strikes? Every batter is different and one could adjust their stance during the at bat.[/QUOTE]

They can land a rocket ship on a moving dime in the ocean. They can figure out up and down balls and strikes.

[QUOTE=Rememberthepast;19009380]Left to right is easy. But how does the robo ump determine up/down strikes? Every batter is different and one could adjust their stance during the at bat.[/QUOTE]

How do human umps do it now? The answer is not very well (see, for example, Aaron Judge). Robo umps will do it better and be way more consistent. It is not even a concern with current technology, and that tech is only going to get better.

The Angel Hernandez School of Umpiring needs to churn out more legends.

[QUOTE=Triple B;19009409]The Angel Hernandez School of Umpiring needs to churn out more legends.[/QUOTE]

Dontrelle Willis would like to enter the chat and point out that Eric Gregg is the gold standard for calling balls and strikes.

Why stop at robot umpires? Why not have robot players added to the player pool. Owners would be a fan, no salary for robots.

[QUOTE=Boo;19009242]I kind of agree, a pitch 1/16 of an inch off the plate should be a strike, make the batter swing.[/QUOTE]
If a runner, running to 1st base is 1/16 of an inch from the bag is he safe or out if the ball is in the glove?
and vise versa, if the ball is 1/16 of an inch from the glove and the running is on the bag, is he out?

[QUOTE=Americards;19009441]If a runner, running to 1st base is 1/16 of an inch from the bag is he safe or out if the ball is in the glove?
and vise versa, if the ball is 1/16 of an inch from the glove and the running is on the bag, is he out?[/QUOTE]

Or even better. If a batter misses the ball by 1/16 of an inch, is he awarded a hit and a base?

[QUOTE=bigdog2003;19009435]Why stop at robot umpires? Why not have robot players added to the player pool. Owners would be a fan, no salary for robots.[/QUOTE]
maybe get robot fans

[QUOTE=Boo;19009242]I kind of agree, a pitch 1/16 of an inch off the plate should be a strike, make the batter swing.[/QUOTE]

Jim Joyce has revealed himself :eek:

[QUOTE=Americards;19009441]If a runner, running to 1st base is 1/16 of an inch from the bag is he safe or out if the ball is in the glove?
and vise versa, if the ball is 1/16 of an inch from the glove and the running is on the bag, is he out?[/QUOTE]

The robots will determine based on their experience. Perfection is only a robot away.

Just pointing out there could be some unintended consequences of having a "perfect" strike zone. I don't think anyone, players included, really object to borderline pitches, it's the obvious errors that mess up the game.

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[QUOTE=JRX;19009468]Just pointing out there could be some unintended consequences of having a "perfect" strike zone. I don't think anyone, players included, really object to borderline pitches, it's the obvious errors that mess up the game.

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It CAN'T be any worse than the current version we have.

[QUOTE=SupermanBrandon;19009476]It CAN'T be any worse than the current version we have.[/QUOTE]

Other then many skilled professionals sitting at home your right. Human error has no place in our society.

[QUOTE=JRX;19009468]Just pointing out there could be some unintended consequences of having a "perfect" strike zone. I don't think anyone, players included, really object to borderline pitches, it's the obvious errors that mess up the game.

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It's the inconsistency that messes up the game. Not disagreement about borderline calls.

If the umps are consistent, the players adjust. Even if the strike zone is "off", people won't care if the calls are consistent for both sides. Robots will be able to keep things consistent significantly better than humans.

Variation in the strike zone may end up being a ballpark-to-ballpark feature rather than the ump having a hangover or a bias against one of the teams or players.

Also, did you guys call your own balls and strikes when you played wiffle ball as kids, or did you set up a "robot", i.e., a lawn chair to serve as an imperfect but 100% consistent strike zone.

My neighborhood fights dropped to zero when we figured that out. Ball hits the chair it's a strike. No arguments.

Im voting for Robot Umps just to simply stop catchers from "framing" a pitch that's 6 inches off of the plate. The glove movement is awful to watch.

[QUOTE=SupermanBrandon;19009524]Im voting for Robot Umps just to simply stop catchers from "framing" a pitch that's 6 inches off of the plate. The glove movement is awful to watch.[/QUOTE]

That does happen where the ump misses a ridiculous frame job. But still cannot get behind a robot Lol

[QUOTE=JRX;19009219]I was at the Charlotte knights game last night and there were 20 walks in 7 innings. They need to at least give it some room for error.

Sent from my SM-A546U1 using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

A strike is a strike. A ball is a ball.

[QUOTE=marl1220;19009561]A strike is a strike. A ball is a ball.[/QUOTE]

Yeh I don't get the want for less consistency so we can have humans doing the job. Too much time, energy and money in the business of baseball (for players, teams and fans) for things not to be more consistent.

[QUOTE=SupermanBrandon;19009581]Yeh I don't get the want for less consistency so we can have humans doing the job. Too much time, energy and money in the business of baseball (for players, teams and fans) for things not to be more consistent.[/QUOTE]

Yes, the business of baseball…the game is long gone 👍

[QUOTE=PLAYED4NOTHING;19009589]Yes, the business of baseball…the game is long gone 👍[/QUOTE]

Bingo! Its been gone for a long time.

Counterpoint: yes, they are.

[QUOTE=bigdog2003;19009435]Why stop at robot umpires? Why not have robot players added to the player pool. Owners would be a fan, no salary for robots.[/QUOTE]

Instead of a silly slippery slope argument we could stop calling these robots. It’s a radar system that provides the information to the umpire. We don’t call cars with collision detection systems robots when they beep out warnings.

[url]https://www.milb.com/gameday/redbirds-vs-knights/2023/08/22/725446/final/summary/all[/url]

Most of the walks in last night's Knights/Redbirds game were far out of the zone. I know it was anecdotal to begin with, but I don't know that bad pitching aligns with robot umps being bad.

For those that will inevitably say “this isn’t my baseball”…this is the exact view you will continue to see even when the electronic strike zone starts.

[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230823/d6d97960dce136475c00f524dc5f117f.jpg[/IMG]

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[QUOTE=SupermanBrandon;19009954]For those that will inevitably say “this isn’t my baseball”…this is the exact view you will continue to see even when the electronic strike zone starts.

[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230823/d6d97960dce136475c00f524dc5f117f.jpg[/IMG]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]That robot looks so real! What a world we live in. ;)

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The only argument against them that I agree with is that they'd devalue the art of a catcher framing a pitch. There are guys that have made careers off of this skill and it'd be sad to lose that. I'd get over it quickly though.

Take balls/strikes away from home plate umps so they have more time to showboat calls and act as heels towards the managers/fans/mascots. At the end of the year the BWAA should give out a Frank Derbin MVP award to the most flamboyant umpire. I want to see Laz Diaz and Angel Hernandez cut a promo that threatens bodily harm towards the Phillie Phanatic. Umps are clowns, let them act like it.

I've seen Terminator.

[QUOTE=Americards;19009451]maybe get robot fans[/QUOTE]

Well, they already had cardboard cutout fans during COVID.

[QUOTE=SupermanBrandon;19009524]Im voting for Robot Umps just to simply stop catchers from "framing" a pitch that's 6 inches off of the plate. The glove movement is awful to watch.[/QUOTE]

Yes. I can't wait for this ridiculous "art" to die. :)!

Robot umps ARE the answer. I'm tired of these crybaby, thin-skinned umps calling pitches 4 inches off the plate (or that much above/below the zone) a strike.

[QUOTE=jduds;19009974]The only argument against them that I agree with is that they'd devalue the art of a catcher framing a pitch. There are guys that have made careers off of this skill and it'd be sad to lose that. I'd get over it quickly though.[/QUOTE]

Not sad at all. It's annoying, and some catchers WAY overdo it. To the point, it's just stupid to see how much their glove moves to get into the strike zone.

Austin Hedges and Martin Maldonado are two catchers who move the glove around like they are having a seizure to try and get a strike call.

[QUOTE=JoshMN;19009513]Also, did you guys call your own balls and strikes when you played wiffle ball as kids, or did you set up a "robot", i.e., a lawn chair to serve as an imperfect but 100% consistent strike zone.

My neighborhood fights dropped to zero when we figured that out. Ball hits the chair it's a strike. No arguments.[/QUOTE]

This guy gets it.

We are attempting to remove the judgement and personalities of these temperamental clowns behind the plate -- AKA THE UMP SHOW.

The lawn chair wasn't ejecting anyone for chirping, either. Perfect solution for the big leagues.

[QUOTE=JRX;19009219]I was at the Charlotte knights game last night and there were 20 walks in 7 innings. They need to at least give it some room for error.

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Lol. :doh:

I think the Nationals are wishing for the automated strike zone after Judge hits his third home run of the game when he should have walked twice if not for 2 crappy calls by the umpire.

Sounds like the OP has trouble dealing with reality.

are there people actually arguing for less accurate/consistent umpiring?

that really confuses me. I mean, ultimately, dont we all just want the right calls made?

I was watching this game live. The call was in favor of my Braves. The "strike" was a foot outside of the zone. Atrocious call.

---

Pittsburgh Pirates third baseman Ke'Bryan Hayes pleaded with Major League Baseball on Sunday to institute the automated ball-strike system after an obvious missed call and a subsequent conversation with the umpire.

The call took place during Sunday's game against the Atlanta Braves, with plate umpire Bill Miller calling a strike on a pitch shown to be well outside the strike zone as Hayes was starting toward first base after flipping his bat back for what he thought was a walk.

After chatting with Miller as he went back to retrieve his bat, Hayes struck out on the next pitch.

Hayes said he attempted to discuss the call with Miller after the game and shared his side of the conversation on social media along with an image of the pitch.

"Some umpires really don't care," Hayes posted. "3-1 call not even close. I hold him accountable after the game walking off the field and his response is "[shrug emoji] I gave you a chance to hit a homerun" that tells me you don't care at all.

[url]https://twitter.com/PlatinumKey13/status/1700960186502918564?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1700960186502918564%7Ctwgr%5Eebe0c3824ee25b51c0c2c8dc980107d6a5be8cf2%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fftw.usatoday.com%2Flists%2Fpirates-kebryan-hayes-umpire-bill-miller-bad-call-strikeout[/url]

[QUOTE=theredmenace;19009996]Take balls/strikes away from home plate umps so they have more time to showboat calls and act as heels towards the managers/fans/mascots. At the end of the year the BWAA should give out a Frank Derbin MVP award to the most flamboyant umpire. I want to see Laz Diaz and Angel Hernandez cut a promo that threatens bodily harm towards the Phillie Phanatic. Umps are clowns, let them act like it.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://64.media.tumblr.com/c298d9037eb8fc78703ba67ecc05e282/tumblr_mzzdpmtbBl1rg0lgoo4_500.gifv[/IMG]

[IMG]https://64.media.tumblr.com/713737159fd805a83fb9860e64a2fae6/tumblr_mzzdpmtbBl1rg0lgoo7_500.gifv[/IMG]

[IMG]https://64.media.tumblr.com/31a43111d25699dd25c2419a48e5b3f6/tumblr_mzzdpmtbBl1rg0lgoo6_500.gifv[/IMG]

[QUOTE=SupermanBrandon;19041881]I was watching this game live. The call was in favor of my Braves. The "strike" was a foot outside of the zone. Atrocious call.

---

Pittsburgh Pirates third baseman Ke'Bryan Hayes pleaded with Major League Baseball on Sunday to institute the automated ball-strike system after an obvious missed call and a subsequent conversation with the umpire.

The call took place during Sunday's game against the Atlanta Braves, with plate umpire Bill Miller calling a strike on a pitch shown to be well outside the strike zone as Hayes was starting toward first base after flipping his bat back for what he thought was a walk.

After chatting with Miller as he went back to retrieve his bat, Hayes struck out on the next pitch.

Hayes said he attempted to discuss the call with Miller after the game and shared his side of the conversation on social media along with an image of the pitch.

"Some umpires really don't care," Hayes posted. "3-1 call not even close. I hold him accountable after the game walking off the field and his response is "[shrug emoji] I gave you a chance to hit a homerun" that tells me you don't care at all.

[url]https://twitter.com/PlatinumKey13/status/1700960186502918564?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1700960186502918564%7Ctwgr%5Eebe0c3824ee25b51c0c2c8dc980107d6a5be8cf2%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fftw.usatoday.com%2Flists%2Fpirates-kebryan-hayes-umpire-bill-miller-bad-call-strikeout[/url][/QUOTE]

I think I am fine with setting up an agreed upon margin of error on the strike zone and then allowing challenges. Obviously they have them in tennis, which is easier having a defined line but the tech is there for this to work and really weed out the egregiously bad calls.

[QUOTE=atk825;19042162]I think I am fine with setting up an agreed upon margin of error on the strike zone and then allowing challenges. Obviously they have them in tennis, which is easier having a defined line but the tech is there for this to work and really weed out the egregiously bad calls.[/QUOTE]

Not sure we need a margin of error. There is no margin of error in tennis. It either touches the line or it doesn't.

I suggest a standardized strike zone. No more variance based on player height or stance. Just say this is a strike and this is a ball all the time, and the players will adjust to it. And with the technology, they can't argue about it. It is what it is. They will just adjust to the standard strike zone. Which in reality won't be more than a couple inches from what they are used to anyway (up and down. it won't change side to side at all).

[QUOTE=Skipscards;19010011]I've seen Terminator.[/QUOTE]

Default of every person afraid of technology

watch Triple A, they've already implemented ABS

So pitchers can't throw strikes and the response is to quit calling a ball a ball?
Maybe widen the plate or something but we have to be able to agree that you can't just call it a strike because pitchers are having trouble finding the zone.

[QUOTE=OhioLawyerF5;19042240]Not sure we need a margin of error. There is no margin of error in tennis. It either touches the line or it doesn't.

I suggest a standardized strike zone. No more variance based on player height or stance. Just say this is a strike and this is a ball all the time, and the players will adjust to it. And with the technology, they can't argue about it. It is what it is. They will just adjust to the standard strike zone. Which in reality won't be more than a couple inches from what they are used to anyway (up and down. it won't change side to side at all).[/QUOTE]

100% correct regarding "margin of error." The robot will call a strike when the parameters you define are met. Don't like the parameters? Then change the definition of a strike.

The standardized strike zone seems problematic to me -- Aaron Judge should not have the same strike zone as Altuve. I think that having a strike zone defined by the current rule does require some complication in the robot's programming, but should be very easy to work around I presume the current beta systems have decent ways to do this that are consistently being defined.

I can't wait for the consistency of robo calls. Batters need to be rewarded for being able to tell whether a pitch is actually, objectively in the zone or not, rather than essentially being never ending victims to totally arbitrary judgment calls that can easily determine the outcome of the game. Honestly, baseball is essentially akin to professional wresting until this issue is fixed. Anyone who's ever been in a batter's box must know this.

[QUOTE=dani0100;19042279] Aaron Judge should not have the same strike zone as Altuve. [/QUOTE]

But then we could let the Eddie Gaedels of the world play again.

The reality is, even looking at Judge's strike zone compared to Altuve, the difference is only a few inches in either direction of the zone. When you standardize it somewhere in between those extremes, it's even less of a difference. I don't think it will be as drastic to standardize it as people think.

It seems that most of this conversation is only thinking about the problem of balls being called strikes, favoring the pitcher, but the data suggests that the problem is also that strikes are being called balls, favoring the batter, particularly up in the zone. Just from watching pretty much all of the games of my favorite team, there are countless examples of a catcher setting up in one place and the ball going to a place inside the strike zone where the catcher has to reach, giving the illusion that the ball was out of the strike zone. All humans will have some perception issues of objects flying in at 90-100 miles/hour with movement.


There's an interesting study from Boston University about the whole issue. [URL="https://www.bu.edu/articles/2019/mlb-umpires-strike-zone-accuracy/"]https://www.bu.edu/articles/2019/mlb-umpires-strike-zone-accuracy/[/URL]

All this to say that I would guess that runs and offense would remain little changed, and my prediction would be that pitchers would pitch up in the zone more consistently if they could count on the high strike call, resulting in more strikeouts up in the zone.

It is harder and harder for the umpires today in my opinion. Back when a pitcher might pitch 9 innings and while i am not an umpire it seems a lot harder to follow thru the strike zone a ball when multiple pitchers from both teams are used versus 2. Pitchers all have different wind ups, different speeds, different breaking balls etc. It has to be much harder I would think than when there were starters who were expected to stay for as long as possible. Its hard enough for the hitters but add variablity on calling strikes and balls well it makes it even harder.

[QUOTE=OhioLawyerF5;19042240]Not sure we need a margin of error. There is no margin of error in tennis. It either touches the line or it doesn't.

I suggest a standardized strike zone. No more variance based on player height or stance. Just say this is a strike and this is a ball all the time, and the players will adjust to it. And with the technology, they can't argue about it. It is what it is. They will just adjust to the standard strike zone. Which in reality won't be more than a couple inches from what they are used to anyway (up and down. it won't change side to side at all).[/QUOTE]

I am not sure that will work as well in the extremes of height say Elly versus Altuve however it should not matter very much in the vast majority. If it gives an unfair disadvantage to the outliers well that would have to be determined -

[QUOTE=daveyc1;19010707]are there people actually arguing for less accurate/consistent umpiring?

that really confuses me. I mean, ultimately, dont we all just want the right calls made?[/QUOTE]

I hope you realize that having a 100% accurate strike zone is problematic. There are plenty of breaking balls that barely hit the edges of the strike zone that hitters would be surprised to be called strikes. Teams are going to try to game the system by training pitchers to do this -- it's going to become a joke.

[QUOTE=OhioLawyerF5;19042293]But then we could let the Eddie Gaedels of the world play again.

The reality is, even looking at Judge's strike zone compared to Altuve, the difference is only a few inches in either direction of the zone. When you standardize it somewhere in between those extremes, it's even less of a difference. I don't think it will be as drastic to standardize it as people think.[/QUOTE]

Can’t imagine what adjustments teams would make to altuve if a 100 mph fastball at his shoulders is a called strike. Likewise judge/Elly/Cruz etc would be very lucky to hit .100 if a pitch 3 inches below current zone was a called strike. They lose guys would literally never see an actual strike for the rest of their careers

[QUOTE=fabiani12333;19043471]I hope you realize that having a 100% accurate strike zone is problematic. There are plenty of breaking balls that barely hit the edges of the strike zone that hitters would be surprised to be called strikes. Teams are going to try to game the system by training pitchers to do this -- it's going to become a joke.[/QUOTE]

I don't understand this comment...

If a breaking ball catches the edge of the strike zone, it is a strike and should be called a strike. Doesn't matter that some hitters may be surprised that a pitch is called a strike when it is a strike.

Pitchers have always tried their best to paint the corners / edges of the zone. This is nothing new. We will just get a higher level of accuracy on the calls. I don't get what the joke is.