Who is the GOAT?
 

I thought i would make this poll in response to that other thread to make it more official.

Shouldn't Kobe be in the poll?

Dirk.

[QUOTE=sthoemke;18706695]Shouldn't Kobe be in the poll?[/QUOTE]

Kobe is widely regarded around the top 10ish, give or take. I only had 10 choices so you can vote "Other (specify)" if you feel he is.

[QUOTE=sthoemke;18706695]Shouldn't Kobe be in the poll?[/QUOTE]

What case does Kobe have? :cry:

Your Kobe card “investment” doesn’t count

[QUOTE=sthoemke;18706695]Shouldn't Kobe be in the poll?[/QUOTE]

The poll is about GOATs

[QUOTE=jcardstore;18706723]What case does Kobe have? :cry:

Your Kobe card “investment” doesn’t count[/QUOTE]

He’s definitely GOAT athlete to get away with rape.

He’s a crap human being, but he’s also the best to ever do it. It’s Jordan.

[QUOTE=eastbayak;18706737]The poll is about GOATs[/QUOTE]

Then why is Tim Duncan on the poll?

[QUOTE=sthoemke;18706762]Then why is Tim Duncan on the poll?[/QUOTE]

Because he’s a candidate for GOAT.

[QUOTE=Kingofkings1281;18706751]He’s a crap human being, but he’s also the best to ever do it. It’s Jordan.[/QUOTE]

Lol why is mj a crap human being?

[QUOTE=rainmaker;18706778]Lol why is mj a crap human being?[/QUOTE]

Just do a quick Google search or browse Reddit a little bit. Or better yet, go ahead and read “When Nothing Else Matters”. Jordan was lucky that social media wasn’t around when he was at his peak.

[QUOTE=Kingofkings1281;18706785]Just do a quick Google search or browse Reddit a little bit. Or better yet, go ahead and read “When Nothing Else Matters”. Jordan was lucky that social media wasn’t around when he was at his peak.[/QUOTE]

:cry:

Go get ‘em buddy

[QUOTE=rainmaker;18706789]:cry:

Go get ‘em buddy[/QUOTE]

It’s not a well hidden secret that Jordan is a prick. If you choose not to believe it, good for you?

[QUOTE=sthoemke;18706762]Then why is Tim Duncan on the poll?[/QUOTE]

Ummm he deserves to be.

5 titles. 3 Finals MVPs

Perennial winner.

Should have teamed up with Kobe and won 10 though.

[QUOTE=jcardstore;18706723]What case does Kobe have? :cry:

Your Kobe card “investment” doesn’t count[/QUOTE]

Same case as everyone else, none. MJ's achievement is head and shoulders above everyone else. I think Kobe should in the list, if you are going to include all those other players, but ultimately, it's MJ and it's not close.

[QUOTE=Kingofkings1281;18706751]He’s a crap human being, but he’s also the best to ever do it. It’s Jordan.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough

Perhaps psychotic tendencies are what drive maniacs to those heights. I don’t know.

I definitely don’t think he’s a well balanced individual.

anyone have promising uh leads on how to create an MVP-style ballot online with points system?

No Kobe is a shame. In a must win game I'd be tempted to take Kobe over Lebron because I think he is a better defender.

That’s a weird list to exclude Kobe from.

[QUOTE=ReggieBush22;18706717]Kobe is widely regarded around the top 10ish, give or take. I only had 10 choices so you can vote "Other (specify)" if you feel he is.[/QUOTE]

He’s ranked much higher by players.

Is it one goat or is this a flock of goat?

[QUOTE=nbahobbyaddict;18707057]He’s ranked much higher by players.[/QUOTE]

I get it. Players kind of ask, "would i want that guy on my side" type thinking and given Kobe's killer mentality, a lot of players do rank him higher. But objectively, Kobe ranks 10ish, give or take a few spots. Now, peak scoring for a game, you can make a case for him but a GOAT list requires one to look at the total picture, not just one game or a stretch.

[QUOTE=6celtics33;18706978]Fair enough

Perhaps psychotic tendencies are what drive maniacs to those heights. I don’t know.

I definitely don’t think he’s a well balanced individual.[/QUOTE]

Yup, to be the greatest outlier in anything, you have to be a little off and obssessed to a fault. MJ definitely was that. We all saw the Last Dance doc. Think of all the times he took something personal. LOL.

[QUOTE=ReggieBush22;18707130]Yup, to be the greatest outlier in anything, you have to be a little off and obssessed to a fault. MJ definitely was that. We all saw the Last Dance doc. Think of all the times he took something personal. LOL.[/QUOTE]

I can see mj out there imagining players saying Gatorade sucks like Bobby boucher did with water just to get him amped up.

[QUOTE=ReggieBush22;18707126]I get it. Players kind of ask, "would i want that guy on my side" type thinking and given Kobe's killer mentality, a lot of players do rank him higher. But objectively, Kobe ranks 10ish, give or take a few spots. Now, peak scoring for a game, you can make a case for him but a GOAT list requires one to look at the total picture, not just one game or a stretch.[/QUOTE]

Kobe is tied for the most All NBA Defensive First teams. That’s a pretty good stretch combined with his offense.

[QUOTE=nbahobbyaddict;18707052]That’s a weird list to exclude Kobe from.[/QUOTE]

Super weird.

[QUOTE=BGT Masters;18707143]Kobe is tied for the most All NBA Defensive First teams. That’s a pretty good stretch combined with his offense.[/QUOTE]

None of the players on the list had a better skillset other than Jordan. Kobe played both sides of the ball. Must be watching Nick Wright too much. NBA players would quickly dispute this.

Other. There can't be one GOAT.

Over 75+ seasons, different rules (both on the court and off the court: contracts structure, draft, etc), different opponents, teammates....

[QUOTE=ReggieBush22;18707126]I get it. Players kind of ask, "would i want that guy on my side" type thinking and given Kobe's killer mentality, a lot of players do rank him higher. But objectively, Kobe ranks 10ish, give or take a few spots. Now, peak scoring for a game, you can make a case for him but a GOAT list requires one to look at the total picture, not just one game or a stretch.[/QUOTE]

Is it consistency, stats, prime performance, or total achievements? In any of the cases, you have to admit that Kobe is comparable to all of those players listed, outside of MJ. So much so, that he's probably the only player that's comparable to those players that's left out of the list, that's why we have to point that out. Overall, these opinions are highly bias and unreliable due to difference in eras. Just like you can't compare players from the 90s and 2000s to today's players cause scoring got easier, driving lanes are more open, pacing has gotten much faster.

[QUOTE=Round Mound;18707204]Other. There can't be one GOAT.

Over 75+ seasons, different rules (both on the court and off the court: contracts structure, draft, etc), different opponents, teammates....[/QUOTE]

I agree, instead, we should just have a list for the dominants players of each eras: 80s: Magic, Kareem, and Bird, 90s: MJ and Hakeem, 00s: Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, 10s: Lebron, Curry, Durant, 20s: TBD

It's Larry Bird...

CNBC posted a business story on "NBC Aggressively Bidding On NBA." The front page photo was of Michael Jordan. In the mainstream world, Jordan is basketball.

[QUOTE=BGT Masters;18707143]Kobe is tied for the most All NBA Defensive First teams. That’s a pretty good stretch combined with his offense.[/QUOTE]

All-defensive teams started as an award in 1969 or he'd be nowhere near first.
Lebron is probably the best all-around player ever, but not the greatest. I'd put Jordan miles above him, Kareem a decent notch above him, and Russell in the same zip code.
Then Bird, Magic, Wilt. I'd rank Mikan above Kobe.

Not a single player on that list I would rather have Kobe over. Add in Steph, KD, and Hakeem.

Kobe is top15 tho :coffee:

Kobe is hilariously overrated on BO because of people's card "investments". Go to reddit or rgm and almost nobody considers him to be part of the goat convo

[QUOTE=eastbayak;18706741]He’s definitely GOAT athlete to get away with rape.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/817100/BIGBENTONGUE.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=jcardstore;18707300]Kobe is hilariously overrated on BO because of people's card "investments". Go to reddit or rgm and almost nobody considers him to be part of the goat convo[/QUOTE]

The scoring and all defense first teams are impressive but yes I agree he’s extremely overrated as far as a top 5 contender or goat contender. Still top 15 ballpark, arguable low top 10.

But he’s extremely beloved and he has the added fortune of his early cards being part of the late 90s insert craze/great designs as well as being featured in the early exquisite stuff. Has some nice gold refractors and prizm golds as well.

In baseball, Mantle isn’t the best player but has a similar cult like following and hobby dominance. It hasn’t diminished over the years.

But as I’ve said before, other than Jordan I want shooting guard to be the last spot I fill on my roster. The position is largely useless and a drag on the team relative to every other spot.

[QUOTE=6celtics33;18707321]The scoring and all defense first teams are impressive but yes I agree he’s extremely overrated as far as a top 5 contender or goat contender. Still top 15 ballpark, arguable low top 10.

But he’s extremely beloved and he has the added fortune of his early cards being part of the late 90s insert craze/great designs as well as being featured in the early exquisite stuff. Has some nice gold refractors and prizm golds as well.

In baseball, Mantle isn’t the best player but has a similar cult like following and hobby dominance. It hasn’t diminished over the years.

But as I’ve said before, other than Jordan I want shooting guard to be the last spot I fill on my roster. The position is largely useless and a drag on the team relative to every other spot.[/QUOTE]

I think he's accurately rated somewhere between 10-15. That will fall over time. I think Curry has passed him, KD probably to soon follow. I don't see how anyone could possibly have Kobe in an objective top 5 all time ranking.

I understand why he's overrated here because of the card angle and people don't separate cards from actual basketball.

I agree that volume scoring guards are the least important archetype when team building. You can easily replace them with something almost as good

Jordan - GOAT legacy and nobody will ever come close to touching it
LeBron - GOAT all around player
Russell - GOAT defensive player
Wilt - GOAT athlete
Steph - GOAT shooter

I think the only thing that's really arguable at this point is GOAT scorer

Jordan, of course

Any other argument is utterly ridiculous

[QUOTE=jcardstore;18707342]Jordan - GOAT legacy and nobody will ever come close to touching it
LeBron - GOAT all around player
Russell - GOAT defensive player
Wilt - GOAT athlete
Steph - GOAT shooter

I think the only thing that's really arguable at this point is GOAT scorer[/QUOTE]

Scorer

All time Lebron
Average Jordan
Peak average Wilt
Ways to score skill set KD

I don’t think anyone else has a case. Scoring Mount Rushmore if you will.

[QUOTE=6celtics33;18707381]Scorer

All time Lebron
Average Jordan
Peak average Wilt
Ways to score skill set KD

I don’t think anyone else has a case. Scoring Mount Rushmore if you will.[/QUOTE]

I would put scoring gravity - Steph. but that list is pretty spot on how I see it also

From 2000-10 Bryant compiled 32.2 Defensive Win Shares. For the decade.
From 2003-10 James compiled 33.5 Defensive Win Shares. Despite being a sophomore in HS when Bryant started the decade.

LeBron has 27 more Defensive Win Shares in his career more than Kobe...in just 60 more games.

In the Playoffs, James WS/48 minutes is .242! Bryant's is .157. League average is .100. Lebron is almost 2X as valuable to his team than Kobe is to the Lakers when compared to a random player in the Playoffs. That is absurd.

Bryant is a tremendous player. Somewhere in my top 13. He is not in the same conversation as these guys and sadly his death is the reason he is.

Data [URL="https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=jamesle01&player_id1=bryanko01&sum=0&request=1&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_source=bbr&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_id=bryanko01"]https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=jamesle01&player_id1=bryanko01&sum=0&request=1&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_source=bbr&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_id=bryanko01[/URL]

[QUOTE=williemayshayes;18707410]From 2000-10 Bryant compiled 32.2 Defensive Win Shares. For the decade.
From 2003-10 James compiled 33.5 Defensive Win Shares. Despite being a sophomore in HS when Bryant started the decade.

LeBron has 27 more Defensive Win Shares in his career more than Kobe...in just 60 more games.

In the Playoffs, James WS/48 minutes is .242! Bryant's is .157. League average is .100. Lebron is almost 2X as valuable to his team than Kobe is to the Lakers when compared to a random player in the Playoffs. That is absurd.

Bryant is a tremendous player. Somewhere in my top 13. He is not in the same conversation as these guys and sadly his death is the reason he is.

Data [URL="https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=jamesle01&player_id1=bryanko01&sum=0&request=1&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_source=bbr&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_id=bryanko01"]https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=jamesle01&player_id1=bryanko01&sum=0&request=1&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_source=bbr&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_id=bryanko01[/URL][/QUOTE]

Well, 1 played in the weak-ass east and the other in the west. Anyone watching basketball in that era knows the east was basically unwatchable.
I'm not a Kobe fan but trying to use analytics to argue Lebron over Kobe from 2000-2009 range is absurd.

[QUOTE=I only pull for;18707447]Well, 1 played in the weak-ass east and the other in the west. Anyone watching basketball in that era knows the east was basically unwatchable.
I'm not a Kobe fan but trying to use analytics to argue Lebron over Kobe from 2000-2009 range is absurd.[/QUOTE]

Tremendous analysis.

[QUOTE=sthoemke;18706695]Shouldn't Kobe be in the poll?[/QUOTE]

Of course Kobe should be on it. He’s not the goat, but he’s sure as he11 better than several of the players on the list. :doh:

[QUOTE=williemayshayes;18707410]From 2000-10 Bryant compiled 32.2 Defensive Win Shares. For the decade.
From 2003-10 James compiled 33.5 Defensive Win Shares. Despite being a sophomore in HS when Bryant started the decade.

LeBron has 27 more Defensive Win Shares in his career more than Kobe...in just 60 more games.

In the Playoffs, James WS/48 minutes is .242! Bryant's is .157. League average is .100. Lebron is almost 2X as valuable to his team than Kobe is to the Lakers when compared to a random player in the Playoffs. That is absurd.

Bryant is a tremendous player. Somewhere in my top 13. He is not in the same conversation as these guys and sadly his death is the reason he is.

Data [URL="https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=jamesle01&player_id1=bryanko01&sum=0&request=1&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_source=bbr&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_id=bryanko01"]https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?player_id2=jamesle01&player_id1=bryanko01&sum=0&request=1&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_source=bbr&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_id=bryanko01[/URL][/QUOTE]

Great points. There are some write ups out there on how Kobe was an over rated defender. I mean he has more all defensive first teams then Tim Duncan…. Even Phil Jackson called out Kobe’s defense in his book.

[QUOTE=bmf;18707487]Of course Kobe should be on it. He’s not the goat, but he’s sure as he11 better than several of the players on the list. :doh:[/QUOTE]

Who is he better than?

[QUOTE=I only pull for;18707447]Well, 1 played in the weak-ass east and the other in the west. Anyone watching basketball in that era knows the east was basically unwatchable.
I'm not a Kobe fan but trying to use analytics to argue Lebron over Kobe from 2000-2009 range is absurd.[/QUOTE]

This is such a poor and lazy argument

[QUOTE=jcardstore;18707516]This is such a poor and lazy argument[/QUOTE]

Yep, unreasonable jordan fans seem to ignore the last 2 seasons when mj couldn’t get into the playoffs in that “weak” east. The argument seems to be look at how bad Lebrons team would have been in the west. Lebron would have been on a deeper more stacked west team lol, not that “weaker” east team.

[QUOTE=jcardstore;18707515]Who is he better than?[/QUOTE]

He’s better than the “Other” option (excluding better “Other” players like Curry, etc).

[QUOTE=pingbling23;18707536]Yep, unreasonable jordan fans seem to ignore the last 2 seasons when mj couldn’t get into the playoffs in that “weak” east. The argument seems to be look at how bad Lebrons team would have been in the west. Lebron would have been on a deeper more stacked west team lol, not that “weaker” east team.[/QUOTE]

I don’t put much stock in the wizards years. He was trying to teach them how to win and help them develop, play for free. They did win more, double I believe and more than Lebron managed on the lakers at least one year if we have to go down that path. Lebron has better stats though. I’ll give him that.

[QUOTE=williemayshayes;18707482]Tremendous analysis.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=jcardstore;18707516]This is such a poor and lazy argument[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your computer analysis and points proving me wrong. I mean those epic battles in the east of Lebron playing defense against the likes of ______ between 2003-2009 were elite.
Will go down in NBA history as some of the best.

Eye test= MJ
Watching nba from 1976 - current
LBJ top 3
:)!

In Lebron’s best regular season (66-15) and best season in Cavaliers history, he couldn’t even make it to the finals. He lost to the magic, who lost to Kobe’s lakers 4-1.

In Jordan’s best season, he won it all.

Jordan knows how to finish when it means the most.

Lebron LeChokes more often than not when it means the most.

[QUOTE=jcardstore;18707342]Jordan - GOAT legacy and nobody will ever come close to touching it
LeBron - GOAT all around player
Russell - GOAT defensive player
Wilt - GOAT athlete
Steph - GOAT shooter

I think the only thing that's really arguable at this point is GOAT scorer[/QUOTE]

Why don't you add the following as well:

Vince Carter- Goat dunker
John Stockton - Goat passer
etc.

Since when does being the best at certain things qualify the individual to being Goat-like? If Duncan was a Center, not a PF, does that mean his achievements no longer counts and he's not in the conversation since he's no longer the best in his position?

[B][U]Jordan[/U][/B]

Due to Pippen's team-friendly contract, Jordan played on a stacked team for years. Additionally, here's some examples of the "menacing" opponents he faced in the Finals:

Suns (Barkley and Kevin Johnson)
Trailblazers (Drexler and Terry Porter)

I had to write the first names for KJ and Porter because, otherwise, the majority wouldn't know who they were. Those were some formidable teams LOL.

[B][U]LeBron[/U][/B]

Here's some examples of the types of teams LeBron played in the NBA Finals:

Spurs (Kawhi, Duncan, Parker, Manu)
Warriors (Curry, Klay, Draymond +/- Durant)

On at least 2 occasions, LeBron was the only "star" from his team (one of these occasions was due to Kyrie/Love injuries and the other was due to LeBron carrying some bums on his back to the Finals).

[QUOTE=6celtics33;18707603]I don’t put much stock in the wizards years. He was trying to teach them how to win and help them develop, play for free. They did win more, double I believe and more than Lebron managed on the lakers at least one year if we have to go down that path. Lebron has better stats though. I’ll give him that.[/QUOTE]

Most unreasonable jordan fans feel the same way. Myself, I loved his wizards years. It was impressive what he was still able to do on the court at that age coming back after a few years off. It didn’t translate into wins but it was still fun to watch. It’s almost as if winning in a team sport has something to do with the skill and health of your team. Wild concept.

[QUOTE=eastbayak;18707695][B][U]Jordan[/U][/B]

Due to Pippen's team-friendly contract, Jordan played on a stacked team for years. Additionally, here's some examples of the "menacing" opponents he faced in the Finals:

Suns (Barkley and Kevin Johnson)
Trailblazers (Drexler and Terry Porter)

I had to write the first names for KJ and Porter because, otherwise, the majority wouldn't know who they were. Those were some formidable teams LOL.

[B][U]LeBron[/U][/B]

Here's some examples of the types of teams LeBron played in the NBA Finals:

Spurs (Kawhi, Duncan, Parker, Manu)
Warriors (Curry, Klay, Draymond +/- Durant)

On at least 2 occasions, LeBron was the only "star" from his team (one of these occasions was due to Kyrie/Love injuries and the other was due to LeBron carrying some bums on his back to the Finals).[/QUOTE]

Always hilarious when people say Jordan played on stacked teams, then don't mention lebron's teammates lol

[url]https://fadeawayworld.net/nba/michael-jordans-best-teammates-vs-lebron-jamess-best-teammates-6-0-vs-4-6[/url]

[QUOTE=hermanotarjeta;18707632]In Lebron’s best regular season (66-15) and best season in Cavaliers history, he couldn’t even make it to the finals. He lost to the magic, who lost to Kobe’s lakers 4-1.

[B]In Jordan’s best season, he won it all.[/B]

Jordan knows how to finish when it means the most.

Lebron LeChokes more often than not when it means the most.[/QUOTE]

Nearly all basketball historians regard Jordan's peak as that 87-88/88-89/89-90 run. All of which he didn't get it done.

[QUOTE=rhigh2390;18707708]Always hilarious when people say Jordan played on stacked teams, then don't mention lebron's teammates lol

[url]https://fadeawayworld.net/nba/michael-jordans-best-teammates-vs-lebron-jamess-best-teammates-6-0-vs-4-6[/url][/QUOTE]

I never said LeBron didn't play on stacked teams.

But during Jordan's era, NBA Finals teams consisted of:

Suns (Barkley and Kevin Johnson)
Trailblazers (Drexler and Terry Porter)

During LeBron's era, NBA Finals team consisted of:

Spurs (Kawhi, Duncan, Parker, Manu)
Warriors (Curry, Klay, Draymond +/- Durant)

You see the difference in talent, right? Jordan's teams were always much more stacked than other teams in the league, not the same can be said for LeBron.

[QUOTE=eastbayak;18707726]I never said LeBron didn't play on stacked teams.

But during Jordan's era, NBA Finals teams consisted of:

Suns (Barkley and Kevin Johnson)
Trailblazers (Drexler and Terry Porter)

During LeBron's era, NBA Finals team consisted of:

Spurs (Kawhi, Duncan, Parker, Manu)
Warriors (Curry, Klay, Draymond +/- Durant)

You see the difference in talent, right? Jordan's teams were always much more stacked than other teams in the league, not the same can be said for LeBron.[/QUOTE]

How is lebron/Wade/Bosh/Allen vs Kawhi/Duncan/Parker/Manu a totally unfair matchup? Not to mention Kawhi being 22, Duncan 37, and Manu 36, while lebron was 29, Wade 32, and Bosh 29?

Also, what time did Jordan not show up in a series he was the overwhelming favorite on his stacked team playing a team with 1 star?

[QUOTE=williemayshayes;18707714]Nearly all basketball historians regard Jordan's peak as that 87-88/88-89/89-90 run. All of which he didn't get it done.[/QUOTE]

72-10 and he won it all.

Bron took the cavs to a 66-15 record, the best in their team history, and couldn’t even make the finals.

Big difference.

[QUOTE=eastbayak;18707726]I never said LeBron didn't play on stacked teams.

But during Jordan's era, NBA Finals teams consisted of:

Suns (Barkley and Kevin Johnson)
Trailblazers (Drexler and Terry Porter)

During LeBron's era, NBA Finals team consisted of:

Spurs (Kawhi, Duncan, Parker, Manu)
Warriors (Curry, Klay, Draymond +/- Durant)

You see the difference in talent, right? Jordan's teams were always much more stacked than other teams in the league, not the same can be said for LeBron.[/QUOTE]

People think Jordan’s teams were stacked, but fail to give jordan credit for making his teammates better.

Bron bois fail to recognize that Bron does not make his teammates better, and thus the claims he always played with nobodies his entire career.

Fact is, nobody wants to play with Bron. Nobody wants to coach Bron.

If Bron was really goat, he would make his teammates better. Unfortunately, he transformed them all into wnba players, apparently.

[QUOTE=Kobefan;18707690]Why don't you add the following as well:

Vince Carter- Goat dunker
John Stockton - Goat passer
etc.

Since when does being the best at certain things qualify the individual to being Goat-like? If Duncan was a Center, not a PF, does that mean his achievements no longer counts and he's not in the conversation since he's no longer the best in his position?[/QUOTE]

Are you saying it’s not possible to be the greatest of all time at a specific thing?

[QUOTE=hermanotarjeta;18707754]72-10 and he won it all.

Bron took the cavs to a 66-15 record, the best in their team history, and couldn’t even make the finals.

Big difference.[/QUOTE]

We really doing the whole penalizing LeBron for not being able to carry scrubs to multiple finals?

I thought we got past this. I guess not for the most ardent haters

Jordan when team's not doing well: Plays with the flu, punches teammate in face
Lebron when team's not doing well: Walks on court, walks to locker room with time left on clock, asks team owner if KD, Kyrie, Steph and Klay are available.

[QUOTE=jcardstore;18707782]We really doing the whole penalizing LeBron for not being able to carry scrubs to multiple finals?

I thought we got past this. I guess not for the most ardent haters[/QUOTE]

Bron apologists can never explain how he can takes scrubs to their best regular season in team history, yet choke in the semifinals.

It’s Bron boi logic, contradictory statements that they can’t support, so they end up calling everyone haterz.

JUST LIkE BRON.

[QUOTE=hermanotarjeta;18707807]Bron apologists can never explain how he can takes scrubs to their best regular season in team history, yet choke in the semifinals.

It’s Bron boi logic, contradictory statements that they can’t support, so they end up calling everyone haterz.

JUST LIkE BRON.[/QUOTE]

Uh, it’s easier to win single games in the regular season than a series in the playoffs? :cry:

Pure delusional with some of y’all

I hope one day the hole LeBron has left in your heart can heal :cry: y’all take LeBron talk so personally like you get paid for every letter you type

[QUOTE=hermanotarjeta;18707754]72-10 and he won it all.

Bron took the cavs to a 66-15 record, the best in their team history, and couldn’t even make the finals.

Big difference.[/QUOTE]

So the Bulls best season, big difference. There isn't a person alive that watched Jordan's career and thinks that his best season was the 72-10 season.

The 3 year run I referenced is unmatched by James.

[QUOTE=jcardstore;18707817]Uh, it’s easier to win single games in the regular season than a series in the playoffs? :cry:

Pure delusional with some of y’all

I hope one day the hole LeBron has left in your heart can heal :cry: y’all take LeBron talk so personally like you get paid for every letter you type[/QUOTE]

You still don’t get it, huh?

The noxious Bron fumes clouding your logic skillz.

You can beat almost every team during the regular season, but lose to them when it actually means something.

That’s Bron’s MO, shrivel away when it counts.

Not my GoAT.

[QUOTE=hermanotarjeta;18707831]You still don’t get it, huh?

The noxious Bron fumes clouding your logic skillz.

You can beat almost every team during the regular season, but lose to them when it actually means something.

That’s Bron’s MO, shrivel away when it counts.

Not my GoAT.[/QUOTE]

If you think playing a team once a month during the regular season is the same as playing the same team 4-7 times in 2 weeks is the same you know nothing about basketball.

I think we know the answer

[QUOTE=williemayshayes;18707820]So the Bulls best season, big difference. There isn't a person alive that watched Jordan's career and thinks that his best season was the 72-10 season.

The 3 year run I referenced is unmatched by James.[/QUOTE]

It was Jordan’s best TEAM.

For Bron bois, only individual accolades count. Greatness equals most points scored. I get it.

That’s how Mellennial brains function.

JUSt LIkE BROn.

[QUOTE=jcardstore;18707839]If you think playing a team once a month during the regular season is the same as playing the same team 4-7 times in 2 weeks is the same you know nothing about basketball.

I think we know the answer[/QUOTE]

How do you get the best regular season record in team history with Bron and a bus full of clowns?

Bron boi logic always states because Bron is so great.

So if Bron is so great, how does his greatness just disappear when it actually counts.

Like I said, BrON boi logic.

JUsT LiKE BRON.

Let's say there is a company and in it's history it has these two employees:

[B]Employee #1:[/B] College Grad. Great from day one, competitive and driven. Establishes himself as of the best in the office from the get go. Lead salesman for the company and an absolute superstar in the industry itself leading the country in sales. Company decides to build around his strengths and they do a great job in surrounding him with complementary employees. He rewards their trust by bringing home 6 National awards in 8 years and establishing their company as the best in the nation. He retires at age 65. His time is not always perfect though, he is extremely demanding from the get go and gets into scuffles with co-workers throughout his years there. He fights with management throughout the years and these are made extremely public. With personal issues as well as personal preference, he leaves the company abruptly once. Despite the winning, many former employees do not get along with him and he ends communication with them anyway. Still, he is regarded as the greatest salesman ever in the industry.

[B]Employee #2:[/B] Straight from High School. Great from day one, massively skilled with every tool needed for success in the industry. Establishes himself as a team player from Day 1, choosing to defer to company elders while he gets settled. He is by no means a pushover though and is recognized as a top 10 performer in his industry by Year 2. He & management have failed attempts to surround him with the proper complementary employees, most people don't want to work in his part of the country. From Day 1 he has a knack for putting his co-workers in positions to succeed and eventually leads them towards the top of the industry with virtually no real support. Eventually he moves to a bigger company, settles in and reaches the top of the industry several times. He eventually wins 4 National awards for the companies he works for. He actually takes 3 different companies to the top of the industry during his time. He retires at age 80. His time is not always perfect though, in one of his moves to another company he controversially raised $50,000 for a kids charity by selling the broadcast rights to an industry news group. He's also extremely active and wants to be progressive with the attentions he gets. He grew up with inspiration from leaders of the past like Martin Luther King Jr., Jackie Robinson, Bill Russell and Ali. Despite support from nearly all his co-workers on his stances, this is not held with the same regard by a vocal part of the general public. Aside from a few, he is generally beloved by all his former co-workers. He is able to stay at the top of his industry well past his 70's and continues to keep up with younger more talented workers in the industry. Despite having made the most sales in his industry's history, he is not regarded as the greatest salesman ever. It doesn't matter though as he says it never really was his strong suit. Though they are in the minority, many regard him as the greatest the industry has ever seen.

It's really simple to me. Either of these two would have an argument as the best to ever do it. They've each chosen and done it their own unique way that best suits their personalities. My style and preference is simply Employee #2.

"That’s Bron’s MO, shrivel away when it counts."

4 Finals MVPs.

The only question is whether he's GOAT-status, not whether he can deliver when it counts.

this troll is thoroughly discredited at this point