Incomes and cost of living
 

I see a recurring theme in some of the baseball threads. And it seems there’s a lack of grasp on how different the costs of living in various areas of the nation are. I think it may be helpful to explain things. I have less experience in the middle of the country and while I know things can be less expensive, I don’t really want to make assumptions for others so I’ll use the examples I know which are socal, Las Vegas, and Phoenix.

The extent of my knowledge in Phoenix is based on extended family members, and also a few people I grew up with who moved there. Middle class jobs can afford to buy nice middle class houses. That is a family of four income of say $80-150k a year buys what you would expect it would. Although they do currently have a rising cost of homes issue.

In Los Angeles proper, it’s expensive. I live in a nice suburb, 16 miles south of Downtown LA. While there was a small window between about 2009-2012 where homes in some LA suburbs were affordable to middle class individuals, I was going through a life threatening illness and wasn’t in a position to take advantage. Anyone who did came out really well. As it currently stands I rent a stand alone apartment with its own yard, no shared walls except our garage and the front homes garage are both under us, it’s own very large garage, and the area is safe and has well regarded schools. It’s smallish…about 950 sq ft with 2ba/2bd. I pay $2300/mo and that’s lower than similar places. In fact the 2/2 traditional apartment we moved out of three years ago rents at $2500/mo now.

I couldn’t possibly afford a house in the area nor any decent townhome. The townhomes start around $700k. The house about 5 down from us is a 1050 sq ft nicely renovated 3bd/1ba and just sold for 1,049,000.

A co worker lives in an equivalently nice inland suburb about 36 miles outside of downtown LA. Their family income is around $100k and going up each year by a decent amount. They owned a small townhome nearby, sold it, and took the profit to buy a modest and dated 3/2 house that’s about 1600 sq ft. $740,000. They are squeaking by and would have never been able to save up the 20% down otherwise. To place in perspective, they had to take out a loan for medical bills incurred treating a ill pet because they didn’t have a few thousand saved.

I currently pay about $7k a year in state taxes. My family has an income that would be upper middle class in a large portion of the country. In Los Angeles we rent with zero hope of ever buying.

Now Las Vegas…home prices have gone bonkers there. A friend bought his for $125k in 2009. It would now sell for around $380-400k. Still those prices are music to my ears. And no state income tax. This is wife and my retirement plan and the only question is if prices keep rising will we have to consider a townhome instead. Gas is about $0.75 a gallon less and cheap entertainment options are plentiful.

Anyway point it, the cost of living is crazy different and people that post here are from all over the country. Chris Kaman, former Clipper center, was from northern Michigan. He signed a large contract one year and bought his mom a house and not much else. He still showed up to Clipper games in the same beater he drove in college. He probably lives off the interest of his savings and investments. But that’s a rare breed. Most people with that much money don’t live like that. I assure you a dude on a 1 million a year contract is doing only ok in Los Angeles. Money comes off to his agent, federal plus state tax is around 45%, his rents going to be at least $4-5k. He has travel costs to go back home and stuff. I’m not saying the dude is broke…far from it. But it’s not the gold mine lots seem to think of it. At the end of the day, he doesn’t see half that million, and normal living costs eat up at least $100k, and probably closer to $200. After that it’s a matter of spending habits, but we’re now down to $300k or so. The smart guys invest that and then make more.

I’ve oversimplified a bit, but that’s the fair gist of things I think.

It's interesting because I have this discussion at work alot. I'm in the electricians union, and we get alot if guys traveling up here because

1. They flock to big overtime jobs and we have them up here. I'm a fan of 8 and skate and get my 40 hours. But feel guilty leaving all the OT on the table so I do work a decent amount of it.

2. Their areas typically aren't flush with work so another reason they come here.

3. And the reason I'm posting this is that our scales all vary from local to local...this is probably the biggest reason they travel here. Up here we make 48.50-$51 an hour depending on where you're working. I worked with guys out of Alabama who make either high $20s or low $30s/hr it's a huge difference. But again take into consideration cost of living of illinois and Alabama. Our property taxes are absolute robbery up here. I think we still come out ahead vs what they make and pay down there, but it is largely relative. Now in California they make like $70/hr in some spots.

Anyways you make a lot of good points, it's certainly an interesting topic.

Cost of living in LA is insanely expensive but most jobs also account for that in salary.

My job in CA would easily be 2-3x what I make.

[QUOTE=jcardstore;17998734]Cost of living in LA is insanely expensive but most jobs also account for that in salary.

My job in CA would easily be 2-3x what I make.[/QUOTE]

Same. With the price of houses in California I chose not to move back after getting out of the Army. Currently live in a 4 bedroom 3 bath 3050 sqft house. Have a pool and can see the bay from my porch in Pensacola. Paid $313k. 4 years ago.

Mortgage, cars, student loans, yard maintenance, utilities, phones, groceries, gas, insurances, retirement, etc. It all adds up. Most of those cost more as you make more, and are fixed expenses.

[QUOTE=babyfaceposey;17998756]Same. With the price of houses in California I chose not to move back after getting out of the Army. Currently live in a 4 bedroom 3 bath 3050 sqft house. Have a pool and can see the bay from my porch in Pensacola. Paid $313k. 4 years ago.[/QUOTE]

That sounds like a nice setup.

This is all relative to your entry point as well. No way my wife and I would be able to afford a house in our neighborhood in the current real estate market. We know a doctor/lawyer couple who weren’t even competitive on their offer for a house in our neighborhood just a week ago. 20% over asking getting blown away by multiple 30% over offers, insanity. Their income is most certainly greater than ours but they are struggling just to find a place.

Location: San Diego

I have a great home, 4B-3Bath, office and 600sqft of finished basement. It's actually too much room for our needs (2600sqft total). Mortgage is a hair over $1K per month. Taxes and insurance bring it up to $1600/mo. I'm 20 minutes outside of Columbus, OH.

We bought this home 8 years ago and I was able to be the sole worker at home with a regular trade skill job for the first 3 years or so. I'm also retired military, but that pay doesn't get touched for expenses like these.

Since then, any job I've had requires a monthly medical insurance payment (to the tune of $500+/mo), and the monthly property taxes and insurance have almost tripled since we bought it in 2014. I had no monthly health insurance deduction through work when I moved here from CT, but like I said, it's $500/mo now.

We still do fine, but only because my wife started working full time as a teacher. She used to be able to freelance as a sub, and even worked full-time down the street at a Pre-K daycare/education center as the head of education.

What I'm seeing nowadays is that my wife and I are working full time (I've advanced into management/engineering) just to maintain a our previous lifestyle from less than a decade ago when I had the sole paycheck at ~$80K/yr.

This year will be the first in awhile that we're both full time, but it should be around $140K combined in central OH. However, we're not seeing the overall benefit when it comes to work/life. We're basically keeping up to pay for kids extracurriculars, utilities, insurance, and basic needs (gas, groceries, clothing, home improvements, etc.).

We have 1 car payment (almost done) and no student loans. 529CSP is at $400/mo default, but I throw excess at it 4-5 times a year.

I like to think I live reasonably, but why do we struggle a couple times/yr? We take one vacation every spring break and drive to Boston for family. Sometimes hit OK/TX for Thanksgiving or Christmas.

Hopefully this year is better. I don't think there's any going back after Obamacare mandates and the current inflation.

One of the issues with housing is corporations being able to buy up housing to rent. People can't compete with them.

You said Vegas is blowing up, your friends in Phoenix aren't telling you all. We bought 11yrs ago at the bottom, lucked out and got a house walking distance to the Biltmore, we paid $169k for a 4/3 2000+sqft. Mortgage is about $1100. Smaller houses in the neighborhood are selling for well over $500k, I know its not 100%, but Zillow has us at $640k. We would probably be really tight if we moved in now. A few years ago we were considered Lower Upperclass, with an income around $160k between my wife and I. A lot of people moving in from CAli, and as someone else mentioned, big business moving in.

So luckily we got into our house when we did, between the 1 car loan and mortgage we have less than $90k in debt, no student loans anymore. In fact today or tomorrow is the 11th anniversary of closing on the house, we refinanced after 1yr from a 30yr to a 20yr and payment went up a whole $20. So just 10yrs left

Houses have gotten stupid here too (not like in CA but certainly relative to median income). I've stopped looking but when I was, anything decent was $300k. I can't afford that nor can I afford the down payment or closing costs right now.

In the end, I may talk to my boss about working remote 3-4 days a week and look for something up near Bangor...it'd be a 2 hour drive when I have to come to the office but...meh...whatever.

The Bay Area is ridiculous. Unless you're working in a top-tier tech position, have help from family/inheritance, or come from wealth, good luck buying a decent house in a decent neighborhood.

Even making 6-figures with no debt and good investments, even a 3BR is largely not affordable in many cities around here for me. Unless I want to move to the Oakland/East Bay side of the Bay, which I do not.

[QUOTE=jeg2315;18000562]The Bay Area is ridiculous. Unless you're working in a top-tier tech position, have help from family/inheritance, or come from wealth, good luck buying a decent house in a decent neighborhood.

Even making 6-figures with no debt and good investments, even a 3BR is largely not affordable in many cities around here for me. Unless I want to move to the Oakland/East Bay side of the Bay, which I do not.[/QUOTE]

Remember a year or two ago a picture of a condemend home on small lot selling for close to a million in SF because it was near the ocean.

Yeah, the Bay Area is ridiculous. 2 million MINIMUM for an OK house in a decent neighborhood. We bought in 2010 and our house has nearly tripled since then.

Bought a Phoenix condo (midtown) for $95k in 2012. Sold it last year for $280k. Moved into a Tucson house (foothills) 1800ft2 on an acre in 2019 for $330k, older house (60yrs) needed new plumbing, I’m not jazzed about the foundation, similar homes are going for $450k now. The neighborhood is cool, everyone is on an acre, great walking, cactus, palo verdes. Easy bike ride downtown (7 miles). Home Depot is close, 5 minutes, it was like a 30 minutes drive for me in Phoenix. Tucson has underwhelming restaurants and activities compared to Phoenix (which is an underrated food gem) I mostly miss riding my bike to Suns games (the Suns were terrible and you could walk in for $10) and cruising downtown. Tucson is a natural treasure however, sunsets, arroyos, surrounded by sky islands. From a desert born person, I still find it nuts that I can takes a long lunch from work and in 25minutes hike Madera Canyon, a forest of oak, pine, black bears, creeks and rare birds. I’m in a weird spot because maybe the cost of living has gone up in Tucson but Tucson is much less than Phoenix so my day to day hasn’t changed in the last 10 years. We lucked out an make more money here than we in did in Phoenix, tambien. Really, the big change is card prices have shot up, so I don’t buy much anymore :(

Thanks for all the input this far. Housing is most every ones largest expense so it gets the attention, but I really appreciate hearing all the other factors too.

I agree with the sentiment echoed a few times where a nicer living is just keeping up, not giving anyone a life of luxury.

For other reference, I haven’t had a car payment in a few years. We drive a 2014 Ford Escape and a 2003 Infiniti g35 coupe. I could buy a new car if needed, but as long as the two cars run ok, I don’t really want to.

Not trying to pry (feel free to PM if you'd like) ... when you say "My family has an income that would be upper middle class in a large portion of the country" ... what is the range on that?

I live in an area with a very low COL (relative to the rest of the U.S.), but it's growing rapidly and has already experienced a significant shift just in the last 2-3 years.

The housing market here has exploded. I was looking at lake houses and waited to long. The same size house I was looking at a year ago is now more than double the price.

Four-person family here - dual income, making $120K a year (I teach, and my wife is a development director for a large community center). In Idaho, we pay property, sales, and income tax.

We moved our family to North Idaho and bought a house in 2012 for $150K - nice clean place, corner lot, 3BR/2BA, 1200 SqFt. Lived there six years and made some improvements. Kids kept getting bigger, so we sold it for $300K the first day before I even really had it listed.

Bought a nicer/newer home about a mile and a half away for $350K in summer of 2018 - 4BD/4BA 2900 SqFt - bonus hobby shed (200 SqFt), amazing yard probably 40-50K in landscaping (granite walls, fountain, etc.), and a really great location. We bought from a relocation company and whoever they used as their realtor undervalued the house a bit.

Houses around us are now selling $600-$650K easily because of a huge influx of people from other areas (Cali, Texas, Seattle, etc.) It looks like we're going to have to move this summer to get closer to medical treatment for my son - so hopefully we get that $650K plus for the house.

I just sold my house literally yesterday… for $100K over asking for a family from AZ that is relocating

To them? Probably a steal

To me? Thanks

Its crazy right now. My wife and I make a combined 144k and are middle class in Md. Some states we would be almost rich. others poor. We bought our house in 2012 For 229k And we are refinincing right now with a cash out to do some nice stuff to our house, and it was appraised at 376k. If I could retire right now I would sell it, and move to a cheaper state. It cant stay this way forever.

[QUOTE=asujbl;18001358]I just sold my house literally yesterday… for $100K over asking for a family from AZ that is relocating

To them? Probably a steal

To me? Thanks[/QUOTE]

Congrats! Are you upgrading/downgrading locally or relocating?

[QUOTE=callou2131;18001387]Its crazy right now. My wife and I make a combined 144k and are middle class in Md. Some states we would be almost rich. others poor. We bought our house in 2012 For 229k And we are refinincing right now with a cash out to do some nice stuff to our house, and it was appraised at 376k. If I could retire right now I would sell it, and move to a cheaper state. It cant stay this way forever.[/QUOTE]

I hope it doesn't stay this way forever. The lake house I just looked at is listed at 1.9 million and they won't even entertain lower offers. I checked property records and the same house sold in 2018 for just north of 600k.

My wife and I are looking into selling ( So. CA) and moving to a state that is more in line with our way of life. We owe about 400k and we could sell it for about 850k. We are driving to Utah This Thursday to look around (she has some family there but we are not LDS). We are also planning to visit the Nashville area in late March and would also be interested in N. AZ if possible. She's a teacher and I'm a civilian employee with LASD. Our youngest is graduating HS in June so it seems like the perfect time to explore our options. We have talked about it and we both are not desperate to move but if things look better elsewhere we will probably go for it.

[QUOTE=nman84;18001440]Congrats! Are you upgrading/downgrading locally or relocating?[/QUOTE]

Upgrading but literally 2 streets over. Just a better lot and a little bigger.

Long story but we lucked into a house my wife had been eyeballing when the owner, who is a golf buddy of mine, wife got relocated to Florida. His kids are already grown. We’ve been joking for a year, he’s been commuting to FLA randomly, about my wife wanting it

Suddenly 6 weeks ago his wife wanted him there full time to buy a house. So it became more than joking around

So we sold without realtors and just got it done

I probably wouldn’t have paid what it would have went for on market

So we got lucky and then made some good money on the current house

With more folks working remotely due to the pandemic, I'm interested to see what the suburbs look like in the next 20-30 years.

I think there's massive buying opportunities in the current beautiful, but underdeveloped areas of states that will grow exponentially in the coming years with more folks looking for bang for their buck, without needing to commute to work.

[QUOTE=Bosoxfan5990;18003076]With more folks working remotely due to the pandemic, I'm interested to see what the suburbs look like in the next 20-30 years.

I think there's massive buying opportunities in the current beautiful, but underdeveloped areas of states that will grow exponentially in the coming years with more folks looking for bang for their buck, without needing to commute to work.[/QUOTE]

My goal this year is to grab some land for when I retire in 18 years. The problem is everything is so inflatted right now. Want to be on a lake with about 5 acres min.

It's going to be fascinating here in Columbus with the new Intel plants

Right now they are projecting 3,500 new jobs, in addition to the 7,000 construction jobs (how many of those will be people already living here remain to be seen), and tens of thousands of ancillary jobs and businesses in addition to the A) people actually working at Intel and B) people building these 20 billion worth of construction

You can argue how Columbus accounts for population in the metro area

But we're currertly the 15th largest city with a projected population of 921,000 people in 2022

My point isn't that Intel is going to magically make Columbus shoot up the rankings, it won't, my point is that Columbus is already becoming very expensive to live as it's bigger than people think and homes are not easy to come by (comparatively to years ago) and the suburbs, especially those around Intel, are just going to keep exploding in size

Ohio State, especially medical, almost contributes to this a bunch each year... along with OhioHealth, Cardinal Health, Big Lots, L Brands and Nationwide... Columbus has more Fortune 500 companies than one might think

I guarantee it factored in to why my house sold on Sunday for what it sold for

[QUOTE=Bosoxfan5990;18003076]With more folks working remotely due to the pandemic, I'm interested to see what the suburbs look like in the next 20-30 years.

I think there's massive buying opportunities in the current beautiful, but underdeveloped areas of states that will grow exponentially in the coming years with more folks looking for bang for their buck, without needing to commute to work.[/QUOTE]

I moved to NH in 2015 - my town's real estate prices have gone to the moon over the past 2 years. And it's not only people from MA... it's NY, CT, etc. If the commuter rails ever expand up into the Manchester/Concord area (it seems like the conversation ramps up a little bit more every year), it's going to be even more crazy.

We moved from Boston because the prices were already getting out of control, even in 2015. I could sell my house right now for $150k more than I bought it for, but I'd have to buy into the same market so it doesn't make any sense for where we want to live.

Bought my house pretty much exactly a year and a half ago. Got in at $263k and Zillow estimates at $348k which means it would probably sell the day it went on the market at $375k. So, appreciation in the range of 33+% over the course of 18 months. Our house was a totally remodeled foreclosure, 1550 square feet with full garage, no HOA, and a relatively private half acre.

Within two months of buying our house, two neighboring houses, slightly larger but not at all updated since built in the 80's sold for a bit over $300k.

There is no way I would have ever contemplated paying that much for this house a year and a half ago.

Considering this is one of the nicer places to live in NC by most measures, and I can be at two of the nicest beaches in the state in 10-15 minutes, I think the uptrend in prices is more of a correction than necessarily being tied to inflation. However, the prices have definitely been affected by remote workers flocking to a relatively inexpensive beach community. As an example, Raleigh, NC is still more expensive and one of the selling points for moving to Raleigh is they can take day trips to Wilmington.

[QUOTE=hostilecarrot;18005905]Bought my house pretty much exactly a year and a half ago. Got in at $263k and Zillow estimates at $348k which means it would probably sell the day it went on the market at $375k. So, appreciation in the range of 33+% over the course of 18 months.

There is no way I would have ever contemplated paying that much for this house a year and a half ago.

Considering this is one of the nicer places to live in NC by most measures, and I can be at two of the nicest beaches in the state in 10-15 minutes, I think the uptrend in prices is more of a correction than necessarily being tied to inflation. However, the prices have definitely been affected by remote workers flocking to a relatively inexpensive beach community. As an example, Raleigh, NC is still more expensive and one of the selling points for moving to Raleigh is they can take day trips to Wilmington.[/QUOTE]

We built in 2019 for $330k
Zillow estimates now around $460k

It’s silly. I’m just glad we got in and built before the big boom and has ample savings and are comfortable with the mortgage. I can’t imagine trying to buy at these prices right now.

You should be happy you don't live where garbage houses are $1-$2 million but incomes are $40-$50k..

[QUOTE=JeremyNick;18006015]

It’s silly. I’m just glad we got in and built before the big boom and has ample savings and are comfortable with the mortgage. I can’t imagine trying to buy at these prices right now.[/QUOTE]

Same...my wife and I were lucky to buy a couple years ago. Even if we sell, it would be hard to stay in our current city (Northern CA - San Jose) since values have gone up so much and property taxes would be a huge increase to what we are paying right now.

With the high cost of living, salaries out here are really high and even minimum wage is almost $18 an hour. However, it's really common for younger professionals (20-30s) to live with roommates or at home with parents since housing is so expensive.

[QUOTE=k13;18006211]You should be happy you don't live where garbage houses are $1-$2 million but incomes are $40-$50k..[/QUOTE]

Ahhhhh....so that's why you're so upset all the time.

[QUOTE=DiamondDonovan;18006807]Same...my wife and I were lucky to buy a couple years ago. Even if we sell, it would be hard to stay in our current city (Northern CA - San Jose) since values have gone up so much and property taxes would be a huge increase to what we are paying right now.

With the high cost of living, salaries out here are really high and even minimum wage is almost $18 an hour. However, it's really common for younger professionals (20-30s) to live with roommates or at home with parents since housing is so expensive.[/QUOTE]

I'm in central Ohio and I know quite a lot of co-workers who are late 20's, into early 30's still living with roommates or parents. It's almost impossible for them to afford any housing that's not in or near bad areas.

I built in '09, during the crash, figuring it just might be the type of thing that is a 'once in a lifetime' event. My house payment is hundreds less than they pay for rent around here, already. It's just crazy and I was definitely very lucky.

Seeing all these numbers, which I already knew prices were crazy high in the cities, makes me even happier that I live in the middle of nowhere in Nebraska. We bought a 4 bedroom, 2.5 bath house, 2100 sq ft with another 400 sq ft basement just about 5 years ago for 150k. And I know Zillow isn't the best for it, but it's estimate is at 200k today.

[QUOTE=clarkzac;18008382]Seeing all these numbers, which I already knew prices were crazy high in the cities, makes me even happier that I live in the middle of nowhere in Nebraska. We bought a 4 bedroom, 2.5 bath house, 2100 sq ft with another 400 sq ft basement just about 5 years ago for 150k. And I know Zillow isn't the best for it, but it's estimate is at 200k today.[/QUOTE]

For comparative purposes - same sized home locally here in San Diego is 1.3mil with no basement and very little yard space.


Utilities are just straight theft here. Electricity in San Diego is highest in the country I believe. I moved in the summer of 2018 and the first two months of electricity were $500 and $600. Immediately invested in solar and its paid off wonderfully. It’s about 45 cents/kWh now.

[QUOTE=nman84;18008716]For comparative purposes - same sized home locally here in San Diego is 1.3mil with no basement and very little yard space.


Utilities are just straight theft here. Electricity in San Diego is highest in the country I believe. I moved in the summer of 2018 and the first two months of electricity were $500 and $600. Immediately invested in solar and its paid off wonderfully. [B]It’s about 45 cents/kWh now.[/B][/QUOTE]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ErL75GN.gif[/img]


Not sure if you have electric choice or not but in PA you can choose your supplier. I just complained the last time I had to choose and it went to like 8.2 cents/kWh.

[QUOTE=clarkzac;18008382]Seeing all these numbers, which I already knew prices were crazy high in the cities, makes me even happier that I live in the middle of nowhere in Nebraska. We bought a 4 bedroom, 2.5 bath house, 2100 sq ft with another 400 sq ft basement just about 5 years ago for 150k. And I know Zillow isn't the best for it, but it's estimate is at 200k today.[/QUOTE]

Same but in Iowa. Low COL and three hour flight to either coast, three hour drive to KC or Minneapolis, 45 min flight to Chicago.

I feel like I got a good gig going. I work remotely for a company headquartered in Santa Clara, CA so I get a salary akin to that area in terms of cost of living, but I work from Cleveland, OH so my cost of living is vastly lower. I also get to avoid paying California taxes since I haven't worked a second in California. I also save on city taxes since I work and live in the same city.

My wife bought our home prior to us meeting for about $135k in February of 2019. A similar house with a smaller kitchen down the street just sold for $200k.

Would love to move and buy something larger and nicer but there just isn't anything up for sale right now given that most people don't list in the winter.

[QUOTE=Boo;18008729][img]https://i.imgur.com/ErL75GN.gif[/img]


Not sure if you have electric choice or not but in PA you can choose your supplier. I just complained the last time I had to choose and it went to like 8.2 cents/kWh.[/QUOTE]

We do not, SDGE runs a monopoly here!

[QUOTE=nman84;18008716]For comparative purposes - same sized home locally here in San Diego is 1.3mil with no basement and very little yard space.


Utilities are just straight theft here. Electricity in San Diego is highest in the country I believe. I moved in the summer of 2018 and the first two months of electricity were $500 and $600. Immediately invested in solar and its paid off wonderfully. It’s about 45 cents/kWh now.[/QUOTE]

45 cents a kwh. Holy crap.

In the last 3 years homes in Knoxville have appreciated 2-3x.

Can't touch a home over 1200sf for less than $300K around here. I really hope a market correction is coming, my gf and I are ready to pounce if it happens.

It is gross seeing houses listed for $300-400K that people paid $175-250K for 3 years ago.

[QUOTE=Niels50;18009710]Can't touch a home over 1200sf for less than $300K around here. I really hope a market correction is coming, my gf and I are ready to pounce if it happens.

It is gross seeing houses listed for $300-400K that people paid $175-250K for 3 years ago.[/QUOTE]

You don’t want to know what my house just sold for that I mentioned earlier…

That gap was just over asking

Let alone what I paid in 2015

Fled CA for LV about 25 years ago and Nevada has been very good to me. The easiest explanation I give to my friends in Cali is this: we have roughly 50% the COL and 80% the wages. Our family income is approximately 130k.
We bought a 2300sf 4/2.5 house w 20x40 pool in an older but decent neighborhood bordering a golf course considered “downtown” for 325k almost exactly 3 years ago. Valued around 475 now. Mortgage is about $1450.
If we lived anywhere in SoCal w similar jobs we’d be renting a crappy condo and commuting a couple hours everyday. Plus having to drop my kids at some daycare to add to the time away from home every day too. In the teeth of rush hour both ways in Vegas it takes me no more than 20 mins to get to work and 30 mins to get home. So I’m away from home for about 9.25 hours for an 8.5 hour workday. In LA I think that would be closer to 11 or 12 hours. That is a very underrated and often overlooked lifestyle difference IMO. I absolutely love California but honestly the only advantage to living there is the spectacular weather. But hey you know what they say, “but it’s a dry heat”.

I feel like I get to live an upper middle class existence that would be a lower middle class life in California.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=LVDan;18009931]Fled CA for LV about 25 years ago and Nevada has been very good to me. The easiest explanation I give to my friends in Cali is this: we have roughly 50% the COL and 80% the wages. Our family income is approximately 130k.
We bought a 2300sf 4/2.5 house w 20x40 pool in an older but decent neighborhood bordering a golf course considered “downtown” for 325k almost exactly 3 years ago. Valued around 475 now. Mortgage is about $1450.
If we lived anywhere in SoCal w similar jobs we’d be renting a crappy condo and commuting a couple hours everyday. Plus having to drop my kids at some daycare to add to the time away from home every day too. In the teeth of rush hour both ways in Vegas it takes me no more than 20 mins to get to work and 30 mins to get home. So I’m away from home for about 9.25 hours for an 8.5 hour workday. In LA I think that would be closer to 11 or 12 hours. That is a very underrated and often overlooked lifestyle difference IMO. I absolutely love California but honestly the only advantage to living there is the spectacular weather. But hey you know what they say, “but it’s a dry heat”.

I feel like I get to live an upper middle class existence that would be a lower middle class life in California.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Many of my uncles and aunts retired out in Summerlin/Green Valley areas in LV. They love that there is no state income tax and enjoy being out there by the casinos lol

[QUOTE=DiamondDonovan;18011056]Many of my uncles and aunts retired out in Summerlin/Green Valley areas in LV. They love that there is no state income tax and enjoy being out there by the casinos lol[/QUOTE]

It's really a pretty good place to live. I am a little nervous about putting my kids (2 and 4) into the 49th ranked public school system in the US though.
I like being less than a days drive from virtually everything good in the SW US:
Ocean- 4hrs to OC beaches, 7 hrs to Central Coast(SLO county), 9 hours to bay area.
Grand Canyon, Zion, Sedona, Sierra Nevadas, Denver, LA, Mexico, Redwoods, etc. are all a day or less drive away. The desert is also full of cool stuff like ghost towns, old mines and strange little towns.

[QUOTE=LVDan;18011607]It's really a pretty good place to live. I am a little nervous about putting my kids (2 and 4) into the 49th ranked public school system in the US though.
I like being less than a days drive from virtually everything good in the SW US:
Ocean- 4hrs to OC beaches, 7 hrs to Central Coast(SLO county), 9 hours to bay area.
Grand Canyon, Zion, Sedona, Sierra Nevadas, Denver, LA, Mexico, Redwoods, etc. are all a day or less drive away. [B]The desert is also full of cool stuff like ghost towns, old mines and strange little towns.[/B][/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/37/9d/e2/379de25e95613a2c0094f10ac7b5d371.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=mattglet;18011833][IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/37/9d/e2/379de25e95613a2c0094f10ac7b5d371.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

ok, I'll admit: Zzyzx Road is a little creepy, especially after that movie.

[QUOTE=LVDan;18009931]
We bought a 2300sf 4/2.5 house w 20x40 pool in an older but decent neighborhood bordering a golf course considered “downtown” for 325k almost exactly 3 years ago. Valued around 475 now. Mortgage is about $1450.
If we lived anywhere in SoCal w similar jobs we’d be renting a crappy condo and commuting a couple hours everyday. Plus having to drop my kids at some daycare to add to the time away from home every day too. In the teeth of rush hour both ways in Vegas it takes me no more than 20 mins to get to work and 30 mins to get home. So I’m away from home for about 9.25 hours for an 8.5 hour workday. In LA I think that would be closer to 11 or 12 hours.

[/QUOTE]

This describes many of my coworkers perfectly. Brutal commutes on bus or rail to the IE, Santa Clarita, or even Lancaster area. But for some thats the only way they don’t live in the hood.

Looking forward to seeing the areas around Nashville in about a month! Anyone live in the general area that can offer some information?

How expensive is Arizona?

I’m tired of snow and ice.

[QUOTE=oldgoldy97;18013704]How expensive is Arizona?

I’m tired of snow and ice.[/QUOTE]

Incredibly

Depending on where you want to be. Move to Mesa and you’ll be fine

[QUOTE=asujbl;18013744]Incredibly

Depending on where you want to be. Move to Mesa and you’ll be fine[/QUOTE]

Yes depends where.

[QUOTE=oldgoldy97;18013704]How expensive is Arizona?

I’m tired of snow and ice.[/QUOTE]

Your age is showing here. :D

[QUOTE=oldgoldy97;18013704]How expensive is Arizona?

I’m tired of snow and ice.[/QUOTE]

Todays Temperature in Phoenix:
High 70
Low 55

0% chance of Snow

[QUOTE=hairysasquatch;18015363]Your age is showing here. :D[/QUOTE]

I hate this crap weather.

[QUOTE=oldgoldy97;18017696]I hate this crap weather.[/QUOTE]

You live in kind of an extreme place though…

It was 62 in Columbus today

Maybe go for somewhere that isn’t an extreme swing like Arizona or Minnesota

[QUOTE=asujbl;18017876]You live in kind of an extreme place though…

It was 62 in Columbus today

Maybe go for somewhere that isn’t an extreme swing like Arizona or Minnesota[/QUOTE]

SC or NC are on the short list.

[QUOTE=oldgoldy97;18018087]SC or NC are on the short list.[/QUOTE]

Good choices. I live in Western, NY which basically has winter 7 months a year and I can't stand the cold anymore and not being able to do things outside for over half the year. However I also spent several years in Houston and the heat stinks as well.

I was only a kid at the time but can't imagine as an adult liking 95-100+ temps for weeks/months on end. Also spent time in TN and it was nice to have all four seasons but nothing extreme. NC weather is very similar and every time we were in Raleigh it seemed really nice.

Much of the housing insanity of the last few years has been predicated on record low interest rates, which is about to get a pretty good stress test. If 30-year rates climb above 4.5%, it will start to price alot of people out ranges they were possibly comfortable with 6 months ago.

This may cool prices down or at least put a stop to the shenanigans that have been occurring (bidding wars, all cash offers over asking, waived inspections, etc).

We bought our home in a Denver suburb in 2013 for $314k, it is valued around $700k now. We have around $160k left on our loan. I'd really like to 'up size' by using the equity made in our home, but am also turned off by the current purchase climate for a home and rising rates.

I suppose I could move out of state, but to where that has a similar quality of life as Colorado?

[QUOTE=oldgoldy97;18013704]How expensive is Arizona?

I’m tired of snow and ice.[/QUOTE]

Scottsdale/Tempe have always been pricier but even Phoenix is getting up there now. Recently had a friend buy a home out there and they ended up looking in in neighboring cities like Gilbert, Chandler, Mesa for better deals.

Left a 85K a year salaried job and sold my manufactured home on a 1/4 acre in CA for $375K. Made about $250K on it. Moved to Oklahoma and paid cash for a 2600 sq ft home in a fairly upscale neighborhood. Got an hourly job making close to $20/hr and with the house being paid off I am living just as comfortably as I was in CA without all of the stress. Couldn’t be happier here.

[QUOTE=Halonut;18020380]Left a 85K a year salaried job and sold my manufactured home on a 1/4 acre in CA for $375K. Made about $250K on it. Moved to Oklahoma and paid cash for a 2600 sq ft home in a fairly upscale neighborhood. Got an hourly job making close to $20/hr and with the house being paid off I am living just as comfortably as I was in CA without all of the stress. Couldn’t be happier here.[/QUOTE]

Love it!

I just don't know how people can work at a Starbucks or McDonalds in a big city. How does one live in Malibu, San Fran, New York, Boston and still pay rent? No way a person could get ahead, it would be paycheck to paycheck for your entire life.

Living in Malibu and working at McDonald's is probably not possible unless you have several roommates and live in the cheapest possible place. Malibu is not meant for the low income folks at all. Also, I look at Starbucks and McDonald's as entry level jobs to be worked by younger folks. But, if you want to make that your career I have no problem with that but you can't expect to earn a middle class wage IMO.

[QUOTE=Halonut;18020380]Left a 85K a year salaried job and sold my manufactured home on a 1/4 acre in CA for $375K. Made about $250K on it. Moved to Oklahoma and paid cash for a 2600 sq ft home in a fairly upscale neighborhood. Got an hourly job making close to $20/hr and with the house being paid off I am living just as comfortably as I was in CA without all of the stress. Couldn’t be happier here.[/QUOTE]

OKC or Tulsa area? I grew up around Tulsa, so I understand the low cost of homes there. Property taxes are low as well.

[QUOTE=66_Fiat;18023919]OKC or Tulsa area? I grew up around Tulsa, so I understand the low cost of homes there. Property taxes are low as well.[/QUOTE]

I’m located in Broken Arrow, just a stone’s throw from the high school.

[QUOTE=Halonut;18023957]I’m located in Broken Arrow, just a stone’s throw from the high school.[/QUOTE]

Nice, my dad just sold the house I grew up in (Owasso), and moved to BA. I've thought about moving back there a few times, but I would take a pay cut that would affect my overall standard of living.

[QUOTE=Halonut;18020380]Left a 85K a year salaried job and sold my manufactured home on a 1/4 acre in CA for $375K. Made about $250K on it. Moved to Oklahoma and paid cash for a 2600 sq ft home in a fairly upscale neighborhood. Got an hourly job making close to $20/hr and with the house being paid off I am living just as comfortably as I was in CA without all of the stress. Couldn’t be happier here.[/QUOTE]

where in california were you living?

Interest rates are starting to rise. Doing a Refi, and had to send in some paperwork to get locked in at a percentage. Got it in Friday night for the lock. Monday I Called to confirm he got it by COB, he did and I was lucky because it would have gone up a quarter of a percent. Doesnt seem like much at only a quarter of a percent, but thats huge on a mortgage.

Check out house prices in Flint, MI.

There’s some affordability

[QUOTE=Josh611;18024519]Check out house prices in Flint, MI.

There’s some affordability[/QUOTE]

Yeah, But then you have to live in Flint, MI.

Great Toronto area is out of control. 10 year value change is nearing 200%. I bought in at 400k. I could sell at 1.7M today. Biggest problem is I cant find anything decent to pull money out of the market and be happy with a place.