MLB Heading To A Lockout
 

Looks like winter meeting are already cancelled.

[url]https://twitter.com/bmadden1954/status/1452329868935434245?s=21[/url]

I’m hearing as a prelude to a likely lockout by the owners Dec. 1, the winter meetings in Orlando are being cancelled

Not convinced.

Never underestimate the stupidity of the people in charge of baseball.

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[QUOTE=JRX;17744242]Never underestimate the stupidity of the people in charge of baseball.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Agreed. The current commissioner has no love for the game.

Does this hurt Topps or Fanatics more?

There is No way they would let this happen again..

[QUOTE=bmattioli;17744298]There is No way they would let this happen again..[/QUOTE]

Why not?

What's most important to them is the millions of dollars they will be sharing - who cares about the sheep who will come to watch them regardless?

[QUOTE=cj828282;17744292]Does this hurt Topps or Fanatics more?[/QUOTE]

Both.

So the lockout will not affect MiLB except increased attention?

[QUOTE=hermanotarjeta;17744306]Both.[/QUOTE]Assuming this is the last year of fully licensed topps, I dont think it will hurt them as much as it otherwise would. It will still hurt, but I think people will still buy the last year of wax.

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[QUOTE=cj828282;17744312]So the lockout will not affect MiLB except increased attention?[/QUOTE]

I believe this is correct, which is why I’m happy of Bobby keeps smashing in 2022 in the minors

I started considering going to Spring Training, but the delay/cancellation being likely causes me to reconsider

Owners are going to use this years depressed WS ratings and extrapolate out to hypothetical future TV contracts to claim that players need to earn less. Players weren't born yesterday though and aren't going to fall for that. It could be a long off-season.

The 2022 season getting delayed or even cancelled is neutral to positive for the valuation of blue chip cards of retired stars. You will see another flight to quality and cards like Griffey Star Rookie setting new record highs. It's really bad news for cards of anyone still playing the game, worst of all for prospects and unproven players.

After the screwing the free agents have been taking the last few years there will be hell to pay.

How exactly does Tony Clark still have a job?

[QUOTE=cj828282;17744292]Does this hurt Topps or Fanatics more?[/QUOTE]

I would think guys like Jasson & Witt more than anyone….

[QUOTE=cj828282;17744312]So the lockout will not affect MiLB except increased attention?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=imbluestreak23;17744322]I believe this is correct, which is why I’m happy of Bobby keeps smashing in 2022 in the minors[/QUOTE]

Nope.

all under the same umbrella

We will see

I do not see it happening

If its on Twitter...it must be true!

[QUOTE=ThoseBackPages;17744358]Nope.

all under the same umbrella[/QUOTE]

"So any work stoppage at the MLB level does not impact the minor leagues—with one big exception. Players on 40-man rosters are MLBPA union members, and as such are expected to honor a picket line (in case of a strike) or are part of the group that is locked out by owners."

[url]https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/if-theres-a-mlb-lockout-in-2022-what-happens-to-the-minors-leagues/[/url]

[QUOTE=SDcardguy24;17744367]"So any work stoppage at the MLB level does not impact the minor leagues—with one big exception. Players on 40-man rosters are MLBPA union members, and as such are expected to honor a picket line (in case of a strike) or are part of the group that is locked out by owners."

[url]https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/if-theres-a-mlb-lockout-in-2022-what-happens-to-the-minors-leagues/[/url][/QUOTE]

so YOU would still play?

not sure how well that would go over

[QUOTE=awz50;17744359]We will see

I do not see it happening[/QUOTE]

I hope not. Work stoppages are never good for a sport. Wish the players and owners understood that, but we know they don't.

[QUOTE=Stech36;17744347]How exactly does Tony Clark still have a job?[/QUOTE]

How does manfred!!

[QUOTE=ucLAkers;17744351]I would think guys like Jasson & Witt more than anyone….[/QUOTE]

Those young kids will be just fine. It’s the slightly older guys I’m worried about. All these work stoppages could potentially keep them from reaching career milestones.

[QUOTE=ThoseBackPages;17744358]Nope.

all under the same umbrella[/QUOTE]

Maybe, maybe not.

[url]https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/if-theres-a-mlb-lockout-in-2022-what-happens-to-the-minors-leagues/[/url]

I love the game, but I really hate this $#!&

1,000% chance that the 2022 MLB season starts on time. This doom and gloom stuff needs to stop. Why people choose to always believe the nonsense they read as opposed to using common sense is beyond me. The owners, the players, and the commissioner, as well as everyone else, knows that a middle ground must be found. And it will be found. There will be offseason shots fired, but its part of the the nasty side of the business. But I will repeat, baseball will start on time. Feel free to quote me. I will be back on opening day to say I told you so.

[QUOTE=premium1981;17744587]1,000% chance that the 2022 MLB season starts on time. This doom and gloom stuff needs to stop. Why people choose to always believe the nonsense they read as opposed to using common sense is beyond me. The owners, the players, and the commissioner, as well as everyone else, knows that a middle ground must be found. And it will be found. There will be offseason shots fired, but its part of the the nasty side of the business. But I will repeat, baseball will start on time. Feel free to quote me. I will be back on opening day to say I told you so.[/QUOTE]Prob cause both sides lack common sense. Look how much they fought over the covid season.

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[QUOTE=JRX;17744605]Prob cause both sides lack common sense. Look how much they fought over the covid season.

[/QUOTE]

No they don't. You don't become a billionaire by lacking common sense. You/we just see what is in the media. And all the media does is create drama these days.

And for the record, for those who forgot, everyone said there would be no 2020 season either. I said it would happen then too. Too much to lose by not having it. Then, there were a lot of tin-foil-hat people who said there would be no 2021 season either. Or at the bare minimum, it would be without fans in the stands. The fans and a large chunk of people on these boards are the ones who lack common sense. Not the people negotiating these deals. Each side just wants to get as much as possible before conceding to a deal. In the media, this will get ugly. But it will get done and we will start on time. Remember.....1,000% guarantee. Not 100%.;)

[QUOTE=premium1981;17744587]1,000% chance that the 2022 MLB season starts on time. This doom and gloom stuff needs to stop. Why people choose to always believe the nonsense they read as opposed to using common sense is beyond me. The owners, the players, and the commissioner, as well as everyone else, knows that a middle ground must be found. And it will be found. There will be offseason shots fired, but its part of the the nasty side of the business. But I will repeat, baseball will start on time. Feel free to quote me. I will be back on opening day to say I told you so.[/QUOTE]


i don’t think 1000% means what you think it means.

[QUOTE=premium1981;17744620]No they don't. You don't become a billionaire by lacking common sense. You/we just see what is in the media. And all the media does is create drama these days.

And for the record, for those who forgot, everyone said there would be no 2020 season either. I said it would happen then too. Too much to lose by not having it. Then, there were a lot of tin-foil-hat people who said there would be no 2021 season either. Or at the bare minimum, it would be without fans in the stands. The fans and a large chunk of people on these boards are the ones who lack common sense. Not the people negotiating these deals. Each side just wants to get as much as possible before conceding to a deal. In the media, this will get ugly. But it will get done and we will start on time. Remember.....1,000% guarantee. Not 100%.;)[/QUOTE]The owners are great at doing what's best for the owners bottom line. Though I would argue they're often penny wise pound foolish.

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[QUOTE=wiper;17744640]i don’t think 1000% means what you think it means.[/QUOTE]

Sure it does.:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=JRX;17744644]The owners are great at doing what's best for the owners bottom line. Though I would argue they're often penny wise pound foolish.
[/QUOTE]

You are right. And baseball is what’s best for them. But they will get what they can from the players first. And the same thing goes for the other side. They both need and want baseball. Everyone knows that and no one will let the season not happen.

So for those saying there's no way this happens, why is this different from 1994? I'm honestly not up on the issues that make this a different situation.

No offense to the nerds like Jeff Passan of the world. But I’ve learned the past several years Premium1981’s take always turns into reality. Twitterverse be damned…

[QUOTE=monkeymcgee;17744660]So for those saying there's no way this happens, why is this different from 1994? I'm honestly not up on the issues that make this a different situation.[/QUOTE]

In simple terms, 1994 happened. There are lots of things the same and lots of things different. But the bottom line is that this generation of negotiators know what the last strike did to the game. After COVID losses it isn’t happened. Probably wouldn’t have happened without COVID either. Baseball will continue.

[QUOTE=ewokpelts;17744453]How does manfred!![/QUOTE]

Because he lines the owners pockets.

Tony Clark has gotten destroyed by the MLB at every turn

[QUOTE=Stech36;17744737]Because he lines the owners pockets.

Tony Clark has gotten destroyed by the MLB at every turn[/QUOTE]

Not surprising considering it’s easy to take advantage of morons in the business world.

Premium1981 speaks the stone cold truth as usual

I agree that it will get ugly in the media and that the 22 season will start on time. However I think the degree of ugliness will determine the long range impact. Both sides are going to be steadily losing a bunch more Easy Money from cable subscribers who have been paying for RSNs they don’t watch.

I don’t think getting in bed with “Sports Books” will replace that revenue completely, either. It has been striking to me this year how much advertising I have heard from all the new gaming operations - they are both paying a fee to the Leagues & are a large advertiser - which means they replaced some other advertiser and given the Leagues’ cut of the gaming action, the Leagues are somewhat advertising themselves.

Meanwhile the RSN’s and the cord cutting and the fans just wanting to watch their nearest team play a home game is an ever increasing mess for many. And some folks will look at that mess and just walk away and spend their money on something else.

[QUOTE=cj828282;17744292]Does this hurt Topps or Fanatics more?[/QUOTE]

The only way this impacts Fanatics is if the strike isn’t resolved by the time their license goes live.

Flippers will be hurt most by this.

The gap between owners and MLBPA is so wide and things seem so dire that they will figure something out and there will not be a work stoppage.

Counterintuitive I know.

It's not easy to make an agreement when the economics this year were affected by COVID with many teams not having full stadiums for the full season

I saw an article that mlb was exploring creating its own streaming network that would include in market games. I think the league is aware that the old cable model will not be sustainable, but then it becomes a question of how much do the owners get vs players etc.

[QUOTE=yanksfan1;17744928]It's not easy to make an agreement when the economics this year were affected by COVID with many teams not having full stadiums for the full season[/QUOTE]

Hope to see those teams move to "friendlier" states.

My former state of Kentucky still does not have a professional sports team :doh: It's why they remain lunatics for college athletics.

[QUOTE=JRX;17744242]Never underestimate the stupidity of the people in charge of baseball.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Stech36;17744279]Agreed. The current commissioner has no love for the game.[/QUOTE]


The current COMMIssioner has taken a lifelong fan with a tremendous love of the game with more baseball cards, memorabilia, and literal years (9 to be exact) of making MLB The Show classic rosters (me) and turned him into an anti MLB, straight up opponent of it from 2015 on. All I can say is good. Good for them. Please let it die with some dignity. We keep records to preserve the game and it had a good run, but good. Let this game die now and move on. I will let it live through its once cherished history by watching old games, buying more cards, and consuming every documentary and interview I can.

Otherwise take your Guardians, man on 2nd in the 10th, lack of 2nd base sliding/hitting the catcher, waved on IBB's, and politics and crawl into the grave with them. The game was fine for over 100 years but these fools had to change it. Better yet, they basically said they don't want people like me as fans. Copy that, loud and clear. How's the new Nike logo doing? Cool and hip now bro, got that sweet young fan base? No? Good. I'm not coming back until Gary commits Seppuku with a steel bat molded after Mickey Mantles dick.

Let it burn.

Owners want money lost from the pandemic back.

Players want more money.

There will be a problem.

[QUOTE=NaylorVahjeinke;17744944]The current COMMIssioner has taken a lifelong fan with a tremendous love of the game with more baseball cards, memorabilia, and literal years (9 to be exact) of making MLB The Show classic rosters (me) and turned him into an anti MLB, straight up opponent of it from 2015 on. All I can say is good. Good for them. Please let it die with some dignity. We keep records to preserve the game and it had a good run, but good. Let this game die now and move on. I will let it live through its once cherished history by watching old games, buying more cards, and consuming every documentary and interview I can.

Otherwise take your Guardians, man on 2nd in the 10th, lack of 2nd base sliding/hitting the catcher, waved on IBB's, and politics and crawl into the grave with them. The game was fine for over 100 years but these fools had to change it. Better yet, they basically said they don't want people like me as fans. Copy that, loud and clear. How's the new Nike logo doing? Cool and hip now bro, got that sweet young fan base? No? Good. I'm not coming back until Gary commits Seppuku with a steel bat molded after Mickey Mantles dick.

Let it burn.[/QUOTE]

welcome back

[QUOTE=hermanotarjeta;17744945]Owners want money lost from the pandemic back.

Players want more money.

There will be a problem.[/QUOTE]

lol always

If there is a lockout, Tatis made a great decision.

I don't care too much anymore.

[QUOTE=premium1981;17744587]1,000% chance that the 2022 MLB season starts on time. This doom and gloom stuff needs to stop. Why people choose to always believe the nonsense they read as opposed to using common sense is beyond me. The owners, the players, and the commissioner, as well as everyone else, knows that a middle ground must be found. And it will be found. There will be offseason shots fired, but its part of the the nasty side of the business. But I will repeat, baseball will start on time. Feel free to quote me. I will be back on opening day to say I told you so.[/QUOTE]

1000% agree with this.

MLB already had a work stoppage in 2020 due to the pandemic -- a 102 games were lost. I don't think it's hard to imagine another season getting delayed due to a stalemate in negotiations.

[QUOTE=NaylorVahjeinke;17744944]The current COMMIssioner has taken a lifelong fan with a tremendous love of the game with more baseball cards, memorabilia, and literal years (9 to be exact) of making MLB The Show classic rosters (me) and turned him into an anti MLB, straight up opponent of it from 2015 on. All I can say is good. Good for them. Please let it die with some dignity. We keep records to preserve the game and it had a good run, but good. Let this game die now and move on. I will let it live through its once cherished history by watching old games, buying more cards, and consuming every documentary and interview I can.

Otherwise take your Guardians, man on 2nd in the 10th, lack of 2nd base sliding/hitting the catcher, waved on IBB's, and politics and crawl into the grave with them. The game was fine for over 100 years but these fools had to change it. Better yet, they basically said they don't want people like me as fans. Copy that, loud and clear. How's the new Nike logo doing? Cool and hip now bro, got that sweet young fan base? No? Good. I'm not coming back until Gary commits Seppuku with a steel bat molded after Mickey Mantles dick.

Let it burn.[/QUOTE]

Baseball will not die, and yes, we’ll do just fine without you as a fan.

[QUOTE=premium1981;17744587]1,000% chance that the 2022 MLB season starts on time. This doom and gloom stuff needs to stop. Why people choose to always believe the nonsense they read as opposed to using common sense is beyond me. The owners, the players, and the commissioner, as well as everyone else, knows that a middle ground must be found. And it will be found. There will be offseason shots fired, but its part of the the nasty side of the business. But I will repeat, baseball will start on time. Feel free to quote me. I will be back on opening day to say I told you so.[/QUOTE]

I would amend this to "most likely scenario" is 2022 MLB season starts on time. I'd give it at least a 10% chance that regular season games are cancelled/lost. That's not even counting interruptions to Spring Training and/or a delayed start.

I'd also like to point out that tweet is from a tabloid reporter. In other words he's not even as credible as some rando on Blowout. In fact, I'll give it a shot;

I'm hearing that the owners and players have already struck a deal and are just waiting until the end of the World Series to announce.

We all can play make believe. Now, where's my "reporter" salary?

[QUOTE=bmattioli;17744298]There is No way they would let this happen again..[/QUOTE]

Never say never. Both sides hate the other so it wouldn’t surprise me in the least.

[QUOTE=dwillard;17745165]Never say never. Both sides hate the other so it wouldn’t surprise me in the least.[/QUOTE]

Both sides like money too much to let this happen.

[QUOTE=fabiani12333;17745135]MLB already had a work stoppage in 2020 due to the pandemic -- a 102 games were lost. I don't think it's hard to imagine another season getting delayed due to a stalemate in negotiations.[/QUOTE]

I think it's easier to imagine Donald Trump and Hilary Clinton running as a team for president in 2024 than baseball being lost in 2022.

[QUOTE=MiamiMarlinsFan;17745149]Baseball will not die, and yes, we’ll do just fine without you as a fan.[/QUOTE]


Of course it won't, the MLB will be here long after I'm gone. But my issue isn't with baseball, my first love, it's with the corporate MLB. I'm glad you enjoy it though, no sarcasm. I wish I could too, honestly. I've even tried.

And as far as fans go, the single raindrop never feels responsible for the flood.

[QUOTE=NaylorVahjeinke;17745212]Of course it won't, the MLB will be here long after I'm gone. But my issue isn't with baseball, my first love, it's with the corporate MLB. I'm glad you enjoy it though, no sarcasm. I wish I could too, honestly. I've even tried.

And as far as fans go, the single raindrop never feels responsible for the flood.[/QUOTE]

There’s a lot of BS surrounding the game right now, I won’t lie about that. But the game itself is still great. Manfred will be gone eventually, and hopefully the next commissioner will actually like baseball. I had to wait-out a Marlins owner who hated Marlins fans for 15 years, but now we have an ownership group that is at least trying. Basically, what I’m saying is: no need to permanently leave, just go into cryo-sleep like Ted Williams until there’s better leadership.

[QUOTE=premium1981;17745182]I think it's easier to imagine Donald Trump and Hilary Clinton running as a team for president in 2024 than baseball being lost in 2022.[/QUOTE]

Whelp, you’ve just fueled my nightmares for the next 3 months…

[QUOTE=NaylorVahjeinke;17745212]Of course it won't, the MLB will be here long after I'm gone. But my issue isn't with baseball, my first love, it's with the corporate MLB. I'm glad you enjoy it though, no sarcasm. I wish I could too, honestly. I've even tried.

And as far as fans go, the single raindrop never feels responsible for the flood.[/QUOTE]

I take breaks from the game from time to time. Sometimes multi-year breaks. I took about a 5 year break after the 94 strike. The love for the game will always be there.

The young talent in the game right now is a lot of fun for me to watch. I love seeing speed being a factor again. The quality of games since "the stuff" was cracked down on has been a welcome change. It would be hard for me to walk away right now, but if these dopes can't make a deal that could do it.

If the league took an entire year off, I would resume watching as if nothing happened in 2023, because I enjoy baseball and don’t feel entitled to anything from them

I've got my fingers crossed that both sides will elect to extend the current CBA one more year to avoid the work stoppage, something that is allegedly on the table. Obviously it would be HORRIBLE for the game to have a stoppage, but the sides are SO far apart right now that there really is no way they can hammer out a deal in such a short period of time. Not only that, but the main source of contention - player rights control/ability to hit free agency - has not been a major sticking point like this before.

For the players to be happy, owners are going to have to bend like they never have before. If owners are going to bend on this issue, they're going to demand something else flip to their favor, like say a salary cap. We're talking major fundamental changes.

I was looking at Cody Bellinger's stats the other day. From 2017-2019, he won the NL ROY, an NL MVP, averaged about .280/100/40/100 per 162 games, all at the tender age of 21-23. He was paid ~$1.8MM in aggregate for his efforts. While he was comped by the Dodgers in 2020-2021, his last two seasons will leave him with little power at the arby table. If he can't 'find' himself again, when he first hits FA in 2024, he will have zero shot of a large payday or long term security that FA contract is supposed to provide.

I know you need to produce to get paid and this is an extreme example...but there is something inherently wrong with being able to underpay your best employees until a certain time frame passes. I own a business, if I paid my best people minimum wage they'd be gone tomorrow. Other side of that are the players who get paid then massively underperform. Here's looking at you Christian Yelich.

In a perfect world I would like to see players get wins in length of overall control and cutting arbitration years down to speed up free agent ability; as well as the ability to negotiate terms once you play say 150 MLB games (to reward the early bloomers/young superstars). Throw in a salary floor too. For the owners, a salary cap and the ability to at least partially sever long term contracts after a percentage of the contract has run through (say 50%). All of this would help with competitive balance. I know it will never happen...but I can dream!

I dont think we will lose the entire season, but a shorter season wouldnt surprise me.

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[QUOTE=rwperu34;17745158]I'd also like to point out that tweet is from a tabloid reporter. In other words he's not even as credible as some rando on Blowout. In fact, I'll give it a shot;

I'm hearing that the owners and players have already struck a deal and are just waiting until the end of the World Series to announce.

We all can play make believe. Now, where's my "reporter" salary?[/QUOTE]

I have no love for the Daily News, but Bill Madden has been doing this for 40 years so I wouldn't denigrate him as a "tabloid reporter". His source is most likely someone in the Yankees front office <cough> Randy Levine <cough>. Now will teams / agents/ et al use the media to leak things to influence the negotiations, 100%.

[QUOTE=JRX;17745383]I have no love for the Daily News, but Bill Madden has been doing this for 40 years so I wouldn't denigrate him as a "tabloid reporter". His source is most likely someone in the Yankees front office <cough> Randy Levine <cough>. Now will teams / agents/ et al use the media to leak things to influence the negotiations, 100%.[/QUOTE]

The "leaks" from "sources" are done on purpose to manipulate those listening. It appears to be working.

[QUOTE=premium1981;17745394]The "leaks" from "sources" are done on purpose to manipulate those listening. It appears to be working.[/QUOTE]

Don't worry, we will soon get ones from Boras via Heyman.

[QUOTE=JRX;17745399]Don't worry, we will soon get ones from Boras via Heyman.[/QUOTE]

I expect it. Because people listen. They are able to manipulate public opinion, which feeds the negotiations. So it will continue. But baseball will start on time.

[QUOTE=ThoseBackPages;17744373]so YOU would still play?

not sure how well that would go over[/QUOTE]

I think it depends on your age. I played with a guy in high school, who was already 25 when the work stoppage of 1995 happened. Didn't know if he'd get another shot, so he was a replacement player and thus not part of the MLBPA and does not appear on WS merchandise. It worked out for him, as he played 11 years, was voted to the All Star game once and won a World Series as a starter.

Boomers are still mad about the Nike logo on jerseys???

[QUOTE=BdotHobbs;17745633]Boomers are still mad about the Nike logo on jerseys???[/QUOTE]

Not just boomers, its tacky. I did notice the nba jerseys have multiple logos now.

NBA jerseys basically look like Nascars

MLB jerseys have a small Nike logo. Personally I prefer it to the janky Majestic logo that used to be there

I like the idea of a simple one year extension. Give everyone a chance to see where attendance and revenues are in 2022, with no further virus impacts.

Also looming over things is an idea that was recently floated of having a certain fanatical corporation bail out the RSNs, which are intimately involved in the revenue streams (of multiple Leagues). Maybe resetting RSNs into DTC (direct-to-consumer streaming) will be easier for MLB with a new CBA in place. Maybe it would be easier to fix the RSN situation first, dunno.

Ultimately though, just for player salaries to remain the same, the actual viewers of MLB will have to make up the difference lost from the cord cutters. Carlos Correa’s $350 Million has to come from somewhere.

I fully expect to lose the option to watch baseball in public (the corner bar, etc.), outside of dedicated Sports Bars that will possibly have to charge a cover to pay their streaming bill.