People have lost their minds buying on EBay!
 

Purchasing raw cards at PSA/BGS 9 prices with only seeing a front view of a Mike Trout and no back photo and having zero clue if their are surface issues..... and this is why people are trying to sell raw cards at graded prices...but then they hide flaws, etc! So when you get them, they are garbage!


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Tell us more, Mr. Science!

Tell us where this hobby hurt you.

Lol Just common sense... everyone keeps buying garbage at stupid prices, people will stop buying ungraded. The result, it pushes out even further the grading turnaround times longer then they already are.


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so did you buy or sell the Trout with only seeing the front photo?

[QUOTE=ThoseBackPages;16316112][IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/LvtKS6f1WatQ4/giphy-downsized-large.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

You can say that again.

Lots of weird threads on here lately.

If raw cards have flaws and graded cards are trimmed then what cards are safe to buy?

#covid19

[QUOTE=This is;16316202]If raw cards have flaws and graded cards are trimmed then what cards are safe to buy?

#covid19[/QUOTE]

Wax..

Several large leaps in logic getting to longer grading time. Higher raw sales means more raw listings generally. It also lowers incentives to grade. You are assuming that people will buy raw and grade and feel burned. This happens certainly, but with ebays overly liberal return policy there is plenty of time for inspection. I'd argue that some of what you are seeing is a lowering of premium on modern graded issues. If half of raw cards out of packs are grading at 10, there is low risk to buying raw. It could also be the sign of a healthy market paired with log grading waits. This shows high demand for the card. There are plenty of reasons to be wary or angry about the card market, but high raw sales seems a bit strange to worry about.

Asset prices are going up, up, up, and that includes trading cards. Maybe you're comparing raw prices today vs graded mint prices a few weeks ago?

People have lost their minds because they're paying ridiculous premiums for PSA 10's/BGS 9.5's of modern cards.....

[QUOTE=ScooterMcRibs;16316230]Asset prices are going up, up, up, and that includes trading cards. [/QUOTE]

This is what happens when the Fed creates $2,000,000,000,000 out of thin air....:D

You guys never let me down! One of my favorite types of BO threads.

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My descriptions say...8.5 at minimum/ if your looking for a 9.5/10 then beat it. Oh yea and ITS EBAY not like buyers don’t already control every aspect of the sale. Send it back if your that guy...so who cares? Not like you’ll keep it if its not a 10 right?

Let's get out the court room doll

In the last few weeks I've sold 3 cards that had best offer available but the buyers have skipped it and just bought it at my buy it now price. I'm not exactly listing the cards that low. I think people have just became more impatient.

[QUOTE=Shadowsonic2004;16316336]In the last few weeks I've sold 3 cards that had best offer available but the buyers have skipped it and just bought it at my buy it now price. I'm not exactly listing the cards that low. I think people have just became more impatient.[/QUOTE]


Exact thing happened to me today. Was a little surprised an offer wasn’t made.

[QUOTE=dfwsoccer01;16316109]Purchasing raw cards at PSA/BGS 9 prices with only seeing a front view of a Mike Trout and no back photo and having zero clue if their are surface issues..... and this is why people are trying to sell raw cards at graded prices...but then they hide flaws, etc! So when you get them, they are garbage!


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this has been happening for years...it's nothing new.

[QUOTE=dfwsoccer01;16316163]Lol Just common sense... everyone keeps buying garbage at stupid prices, people will stop buying ungraded. The result, it pushes out even further the grading turnaround times longer then they already are.


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Soooo, don’t grade. I never understood the pathological need of some people to pay others to tell them wether they should like a card or not. If you like the card it does not matter what others think about it.

[QUOTE=WillyBeamen;16316341]Exact thing happened to me today. Was a little surprised an offer wasn’t made.[/QUOTE]I've sold on ebay for years. I've had it happen maybe 4 times prior to this. Every time it was a gift and they messaged me to please ship asap it's a gift.

[QUOTE=mfw13;16316245]This is what happens when the Fed creates $2,000,000,000,000 out of thin air....:D[/QUOTE]

And then ask why the dollar is devalued

[QUOTE=Shadowsonic2004;16316336]In the last few weeks I've sold 3 cards that had best offer available but the buyers have skipped it and just bought it at my buy it now price. I'm not exactly listing the cards that low. I think people have just became more impatient.[/QUOTE]

Yep its getting to be a thing...and everyone knows if its got a best-offer option...its overpriced :D
I had 2 of these just last week and another one this am.

Anyone ever think that topps and panini invests XXX amount of dollars buying at stupid prices to push the market? Market manipulation isn't new to this hobby.

[QUOTE=AstrosFan17;16316362]Soooo, don’t grade. I never understood the pathological need of some people to pay others to tell them wether they should like a card or not. If you like the card it does not matter what others think about it.[/QUOTE]

I don't grade so I'm not going to complain about what people are paying.

Doesn't mean my cards are damaged... They could be 10s for all I know.

[youtube]I2K4Nw-l7GE[/youtube]

[QUOTE=dfwsoccer01;16316109]Purchasing raw cards at PSA/BGS 9 prices with only seeing a front view of a Mike Trout and no back photo and having zero clue if their are surface issues..... and this is why people are trying to sell raw cards at graded prices...but then they hide flaws, etc! So when you get them, they are garbage!


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Not everyone grades so it's pretty stupid to say people selling raw cards are "hiding" flaws.

[QUOTE=ucLAkers;16316379]Yep its getting to be a thing...and everyone knows if its got a best-offer option...its overpriced :D
I had 2 of these just last week and another one this am.[/QUOTE]I don't completely overprice the cards I list but I leave myself room to haggle. Sometimes I list with the intention to not sell but judge the market. If it sells then that's fine I probably made a killing on it then. If I list at BIN I try to list at the lowest currently available if it makes sense to.

This thread sponsored by
[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200816/c703b2eaa93c8b1a53b7ef48fcabc2d4.jpg[/IMG]


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[QUOTE=shayscards79;16316401]Not everyone grades so it's pretty stupid to say people selling raw cards are "hiding" flaws.[/QUOTE]

winner-winner
grading new cards is something i'm ambivalent about.

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[QUOTE=dfwsoccer01;16316163]Lol Just common sense... everyone keeps buying garbage at stupid prices, people will stop buying ungraded. The result, it pushes out even further the grading turnaround times longer then they already are.


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Some people who are hardcore on grading don't realize that there are people like myself that don't feel the need to spend a premium to have a stranger tell me what condition a card is in. I have a pair of eyes like they do, I can very much tell a card's condition for myself. No need to give the card a boob job to justify it's quality.

[QUOTE=shayscards79;16316401]Not everyone grades so it's pretty stupid to say people selling raw cards are "hiding" flaws.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=AstrosFan17;16316362]Soooo, don’t grade. I never understood the pathological need of some people to pay others to tell them whether they should like a card or not. If you like the card it does not matter what others think about it.[/QUOTE]

Exactly!

People have lost their minds buying on EBay!
 

[QUOTE=mfw13;16316240]People have lost their minds because they're paying ridiculous premiums for PSA 10's/BGS 9.5's of modern cards.....[/QUOTE]


This, but most of them don’t know any better...thanks to the Grading Lobby....who is not coincidentally the sponsor of this very thread.

#ThanksGradingLobby

[QUOTE=MoreToppsPlease;16316566]This, but most of them don’t know any better...thanks to the Grading Lobby....and not coincidentally is the sponsor of this very thread.

#ThanksGradingLobby[/QUOTE]

you are blaming Blowout?

[QUOTE=KUHawk;16316376]And then ask why the dollar is devalued[/QUOTE]

......hehe
[IMG]https://www.blowoutforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=489661&stc=1&d=1597619650://[/IMG]

[QUOTE=ThoseBackPages;16316571]you are blaming Blowout?[/QUOTE]


Is BO a member of the Grading Lobby? I think BO sells cardboard, not plastic.

[QUOTE=jataman2612;16316549]No need to give the card a boob job to justify it's quality.
[/QUOTE]

LMAO.

Yeah, no doubt.

I don't care if people are obsessed with getting modern cards graded. To each their own. But a lot of people just assume that it's standard practice for everyone to grade and nitpick and question every raw card they come across with skepticism. Kinda like TS. People think they have to get a PSA 10 on every raw card they buy or it's trash. Can't say I blame them either the way PSA gives out tens like candy. Have a card come back from BGS a 10 and maybe I'll be impressed.

It's really given me a bad taste in my mouth in regard to this hobby.

[QUOTE=MoreToppsPlease;16316588]Is BO a member of the Grading Lobby? I think BO sells cardboard, not plastic.[/QUOTE]

"and not coincidentally is the sponsor of this very thread."

who is sponsoring this thread?

[QUOTE=dfwsoccer01;16316109]Purchasing raw cards at PSA/BGS 9 prices with only seeing a front view of a Mike Trout and no back photo and having zero clue if their are surface issues..... and this is why people are trying to sell raw cards at graded prices...but then they hide flaws, etc! So when you get them, they are garbage!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Buyers have 30 days to return anything

Regardless if you don’t accept returns

[QUOTE=ThoseBackPages;16316602]"and not coincidentally is the sponsor of this very thread."

who is sponsoring this thread?[/QUOTE]


As I said The Grading Lobby. Are you saying you’re a member?

[QUOTE=shayscards79;16316600]LMAO.

Yeah, no doubt.

I don't care if people are obsessed with getting modern cards graded. To each their own. But a lot of people just assume that it's standard practice for everyone to grade and nitpick and question every raw card they come across with skepticism. Kinda like TS. People think they have to get a PSA 10 on every raw card they buy or it's trash. Can't say I blame them either the way PSA gives out tens like candy. Have a card come back from BGS a 10 and maybe I'll be impressed.

It's really given me a bad taste in my mouth in regard to this hobby.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I sold a Bieber Gold Wave Refractor auto a few weeks ago for a ridiculous price. The guy opened a return on eBay complaining about production lines on the card. I knew he intended to grade it so I proceeded to show him pics of PSA 10's that had the same production lines. Obviously, he didn't do his research but he stopped crying after seeing that it was a typical thing with that card.

All people care about is grading these days. A 9.5 or 10 is all that matters. Totally misses the point of the fun of the hobby.

[QUOTE=MoreToppsPlease;16316635]As I said The Grading Lobby. Are you saying you’re a member?[/QUOTE]

i wish! i love grading!

Where is the Grading Lobby? I would like to pick up my cards to save on shipping.

[QUOTE=PoPCulture;16316865]Where is the Grading Lobby? I would like to pick up my cards to save on shipping.[/QUOTE]

Between Madison and 8th. Right next to the Hobby Lobby.

[QUOTE=ucLAkers;16316271]My descriptions say...8.5 at minimum/ if your looking for a 9.5/10 then beat it. Oh yea and ITS EBAY not like buyers don’t already control every aspect of the sale. Send it back if your that guy...so who cares? Not like you’ll keep it if its not a 10 right?[/QUOTE]

Even on your BGS 9.5 Alex Guerrero.

Give yourself some credit in your ability to guess a grade :D

[QUOTE=dfwsoccer01;16316163]Lol Just common sense... everyone keeps buying garbage at stupid prices, people will stop buying ungraded. The result, it pushes out even further the grading turnaround times longer then they already are.


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This makes absolutely zero sense.

[QUOTE=auctionjmm;16316922]This makes absolutely zero sense.[/QUOTE]


Then clearly you don’t understand the concept of cause and effect.


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[QUOTE=dfwsoccer01;16316990]Then clearly you don’t understand the concept of cause and effect.


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You are making the assumption that people are buying garbage. Where is your evidence that all of the raw cards on eBay have condition issues? I do not sell graded cards and I do not scan card backs unless it's a very high end card. I've sold 1,826 cards in the last 90 days. How many of those buyers would you guess are disappointed enough in their purchase to stop buying from me and start buying graded instead?

So yes, I do understand cause and effect but you have done nothing to prove that your "cause" is even valid.

[QUOTE=This is;16316202]If raw cards have flaws and graded cards are trimmed then what cards are safe to buy?

#covid19[/QUOTE]

B I N G O.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

You have a much higher chance buying a raw card from ebay that is trimmed then buying a PSA card that is trimmed. People make it seem that a huge percent of PSA cards are trimmed. The number is EXTREMELY small, but it can't be stopped. People that know how to trim cards and can reproduce natural cuts will get away with it. This is not as prevalent as the anti-graders say it is.

[QUOTE=JeremyNick;16316893]Even on your BGS 9.5 Alex Guerrero.

Give yourself some credit in your ability to guess a grade :D[/QUOTE]

You never know these days hahaaa! I do know that if I dont think its nmmt it doesn’t get listed. Unfortunately the new hobby doesn’t know what nmmt even is. They know 9.5 or 10 and dont PC. But to think that any seller is purposely hiding flaws because they aren’t graded is just lame.
Kinda wish the OP would just put himself on my BBL that way he doesn't accidentally buy something from my shady arce.

[QUOTE=ucLAkers;16317142]You never know these days hahaaa! I do know that if I dont think its nmmt it doesn’t get listed. Unfortunately the new hobby doesn’t know what nmmt even is. They know 9.5 or 10 and dont PC. But to think that any seller is purposely hiding flaws because they aren’t graded is just lame.
Kinda wish the OP would just put himself on my BBL that way he doesn't accidentally buy something from my shady arce.[/QUOTE]

It gave me a chuckle.

I agree, for alot of the newcomers a card is either mint (9.5/10) or poor. There is no middle ground.

[QUOTE=JeremyNick;16317161]It gave me a chuckle.

I agree, for alot of the newcomers a card is either mint (9.5/10) or poor. There is no middle ground.[/QUOTE]

The best part is a lot of them aren't even looking at the cards. I've seen several people complaining about the condition of their PSA 10s. So many people buying into stuff they have zero knowledge in.

[QUOTE=discodanman45;16317099]You have a much higher chance buying a raw card from ebay that is trimmed then buying a PSA card that is trimmed.[/QUOTE]

This is absolutely not true. That would mean that PSA is rejecting more trimmed cards than they are grading and we know that isn't the case.

[QUOTE=discodanman45;16317099]You have a much higher chance buying a raw card from ebay that is trimmed then buying a PSA card that is trimmed. People make it seem that a huge percent of PSA cards are trimmed. The number is EXTREMELY small, but it can't be stopped. People that know how to trim cards and can reproduce natural cuts will get away with it. This is not as prevalent as the anti-graders say it is.[/QUOTE]


But given the cost differential between the two, buyers are better off buying raw.

To be honest 90% of the cards I bought off eBay raw graded at least a 9 psa and 9 5 bgs when sent them to be graded . I even got a few mints. I also buy cards early of certain prospects before they blow up. I know that helps also before everyone jumps on bandwagon.

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[QUOTE=MoreToppsPlease;16317336]But given the cost differential between the two, buyers are better off buying raw.[/QUOTE]

Not really. Just buy a graded PSA 8 or 9. You know what you are getting without much of a risk. The current PSA 10 nonsense is what is making things insane. People overpay for a PSA 10 and they overpay for a raw card because they think they could get a PSA 10 raw and submit. Sports Card Investors need a PSA 10. Collectors should be fine with a PSA 8 or 9.

I know Ive lost out on a lot of money not grading. I just have a hard time paying those huge grading fees even though I know Ill end up with more money in the long run.

[QUOTE=discodanman45;16317381]Not really. Just buy a graded PSA 8 or 9. You know what you are getting without much of a risk. The current PSA 10 nonsense is what is making things insane. People overpay for a PSA 10 and they overpay for a raw card because they think they could get a PSA 10 raw and submit. Sports Card Investors need a PSA 10. Collectors should be fine with a PSA 8 or 9.[/QUOTE]

It just seems crazy to me that people would be worried about a "risk" on a two or three year old card and go out of their way to buy a PSA 8 to mitigate that. Unless you have to have your whole collection slabbed in plastic I suppose.

When I think of buying a card graded because I'm worried about risk, it's a raw 1956 Mantle listed in EXMT condition or something along those lines.

[QUOTE=discodanman45;16317381]Not really. Just buy a graded PSA 8 or 9. You know what you are getting without much of a risk. The current PSA 10 nonsense is what is making things insane. People overpay for a PSA 10 and they overpay for a raw card because they think they could get a PSA 10 raw and submit. Sports Card Investors need a PSA 10. Collectors should be fine with a PSA 8 or 9.[/QUOTE]


I get what you’re saying, but we’ve seen plenty of trimmed 8s and 9s as well.

One thing’s for sure though: the more popular 8 and 9s become, the more trimmed 8s and 9s there will be. Supply will rise to meet demand.

[QUOTE=shayscards79;16317460]It just seems crazy to me that people would be worried about a "risk" on a two or three year old card and go out of their way to buy a PSA 8 to mitigate that. Unless you have to have your whole collection slabbed in plastic I suppose.

When I think of buying a card graded because I'm worried about risk, it's a raw 1956 Mantle listed in EXMT condition or something along those lines.[/QUOTE]

With the price of current cards they are highly dependent upon condition that is completely different from older cards and carry just as much risk as buying a raw 1956 Mantle that could be a counterfeit. Scratches, print lines, and other defects are really difficult to see through images with these new metallic finishes. I can easily tell from a 1970's or 1980's card the condition of it from a picture and do quite well from what I look at. These modern cards are hard to photograph because of the shiny surfaces and it isn't until you have the card in your hand that you know the condition.

Without the new online way of purchasing cards, graded is the safest way to go. It is hard to pay a fair price for a raw card online, so sellers would rather encase every card with a grade. It is getting insane at this point. PSA has about 1.5 million cards backlog that need to be graded. Well they don't need to be graded, but that is the "hobby." I only want key rookies from the 70's and 80's in PSA cases for my PC. However, sometimes the only way to sell a card at a decent price is to play the grading game. It sucks, but the majority of collectors need that grade to brag.

[QUOTE=discodanman45;16317499]With the price of current cards they are highly dependent upon condition that is completely different from older cards and carry just as much risk as buying a raw 1956 Mantle that could be a counterfeit. Scratches, print lines, and other defects are really difficult to see through images with these new metallic finishes. I can easily tell from a 1970's or 1980's card the condition of it from a picture and do quite well from what I look at. These modern cards are hard to photograph because of the shiny surfaces and it isn't until you have the card in your hand that you know the condition.

Without the new online way of purchasing cards, graded is the safest way to go. It is hard to pay a fair price for a raw card online, so sellers would rather encase every card with a grade. It is getting insane at this point. PSA has about 1.5 million cards backlog that need to be graded. Well they don't need to be graded, but that is the "hobby." I only want key rookies from the 70's and 80's in PSA cases for my PC. However, sometimes the only way to sell a card at a decent price is to play the grading game. It sucks, but the majority of collectors need that grade to brag.[/QUOTE]

I know all the money is in RC's and graded, but people DO collect other cards. I'm a player collector and a set collector, not an investor. I've never owned a single graded card, and never intend to. Never once doubted the legitimacy of any card I've owned. Grading has been a shady industry for years, it still blows my mind it's gotten as big as it is.

[QUOTE=MoreToppsPlease;16317495]I get what you’re saying, but we’ve seen plenty of trimmed 8s and 9s as well.

One thing’s for sure though: the more popular 8 and 9s become, the more trimmed 8s and 9s there will be. Supply will rise to meet demand.[/QUOTE]

Define "plenty" for me. I know people think it is rampant, but it is a very small number of cards. If I randomly buy 100 PSA graded cards on ebay, the chance of me even getting one trimmed/altered card that got by PSA is basically 0%.

[QUOTE=discodanman45;16317499]With the price of current cards they are highly dependent upon condition that is completely different from older cards and carry just as much risk as buying a raw 1956 Mantle that could be a counterfeit. Scratches, print lines, and other defects are really difficult to see through images with these new metallic finishes. I can easily tell from a 1970's or 1980's card the condition of it from a picture and do quite well from what I look at. These modern cards are hard to photograph because of the shiny surfaces and it isn't until you have the card in your hand that you know the condition.

Without the new online way of purchasing cards, graded is the safest way to go. It is hard to pay a fair price for a raw card online, so sellers would rather encase every card with a grade. It is getting insane at this point. PSA has about 1.5 million cards backlog that need to be graded. Well they don't need to be graded, but that is the "hobby." I only want key rookies from the 70's and 80's in PSA cases for my PC. However, sometimes the only way to sell a card at a decent price is to play the grading game. It sucks, but the majority of collectors need that grade to brag.[/QUOTE]

I see what you're saying about the scans. I'm pretty good at determining condition on vintage too as I never buy graded vintage either. But I know exactly what I'm looking at.. although, I stick to the same five dealers that I trust online and I've never had issues.

I know with modern I'm probably leaving some money on the table by not grading but I'd rather not deal with it. I still do well flipping raw cards as well. I've only had one person return a card because it was "item not as described" in ten years. Considering how much the value had dropped by the time he received the card, I was high skeptical of the flaws he claimed and was feeling buyer's remorse.

i only buy bgs 9.5 or higher. raw cards arent worth the risk.

I'll also add that it's better to upload pictures of modern raw cards rather than scans. You can get a much better idea of the surface condition of a newer card with a well placed angle with a camera.

[QUOTE=fearziz;16317564]i only buy bgs 9.5 or higher. raw cards arent worth the risk.[/QUOTE]

Yes is sooooo risky :coffee: WTF is the risk if everything is returnable?

Bunch of non-collectors in this thread.

[QUOTE=ucLAkers;16317607]Yes is sooooo risky :coffee: WTF is the risk if everything is returnable?

Bunch of non-collectors in this thread.[/QUOTE]

right, not everything is "returnable" and the headache isnt returnable either

[QUOTE=ucLAkers;16317607]Yes is sooooo risky :coffee: WTF is the risk if everything is returnable?

Bunch of non-collectors in this thread.[/QUOTE]

Considering I only buy raw (with a few rare exceptions)... I've only had to return one card in 12 years on eBay. Then again I'm not looking for the next PSA 10 all the time either

To me it seems like on here the xo Siri on thing is becoming more of an issue with selling. Buyers are saying things like “minty fresh pack pulled” or non-cherry picked etc when buying. Let’s say a seller does make a deal for 25 cards that he thinks are mint and gradable. If the buyer gets them and 15 of them aren’t what they seller seems 10s or gradable at gem, can’t the buyer leave a negative on that seller for not as advertised? I’m just saying seems like it’s a slippery slope here too. I’m not a grader, so I don’t inspect each card with a microscope or loop. I try and make sure all of my cards are mint or as close to it, but just seems like more buyers are coming here wanting gem mint 10s on almost everything. To me it won’t be long before more and more negatives are given here because buyers aren’t happy with certain purchases. There’s no way to necessarily return cards here unless it’s hashed out through PM so negs and being outed may be the norm equal to a buyer returning via eBay.


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[QUOTE=fearziz;16317564]i only buy bgs 9.5 or higher. raw cards arent worth the risk.[/QUOTE]


The complaints for returned cards on the boards here seem highest for graded cards. Reading between the lines it seems like graded are riskier, in fact, than raw.

And if you are purely interested in “the best”, we’ve also covered a myriad of times that high graded cards often show up clearly over graded - especially PSA10 off-center with white showing on corners of cards.

When possible I buy sharp raw, and keep them that way (not only are the cheaper, for at least as nice card, they also take up waaaaay less room for storage).


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I love buying raw. Know your card and your seller and you will be just fine. And if you get a significantly damaged card, it's an easy return. I'm about 50/50 on gradable raw, with only three returns over the past three years.

Dude sounds furious...

[QUOTE=pewe;16317934]The complaints for returned cards on the boards here seem highest for graded cards. Reading between the lines it seems like graded are riskier, in fact, than raw.

And if you are purely interested in “the best”, we’ve also covered a myriad of times that high graded cards often show up clearly over graded - especially PSA10 off-center with white showing on corners of cards.

When possible I buy sharp raw, and keep them that way (not only are the cheaper, for at least as nice card, they also take up waaaaay less room for storage).


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i cant argue with your point but we must all remember that regardless of raw or grade, every card is based on a persons perception. therefore, while grading or raw isn't relevant in literal terms, having the backing of a certified entity certainly doesn't hurt even if their perception of the card is wrong. it simply validates another persons observation of the cards integrity. additionally, having the card graded beforehand saves you money assuming you got the card at it's current book value. Grading is subjective in nature but has its place in the hobby. i dont think theres any camera good enough to replace having another certified companies validation on record of the cards actual shape. the zoom on ebay pictures or scans are only so good and there are tons of factors that affect the quality of those pictures such as ebays compression or monitor quality.