The rise of 90s numbered stuff
 

We all know this stuff has climbed precipitously in the last couple years but as a collector with decent knowledge of 90s stuff, particularly as it pertains to one certain player, this auction shocked me.

About 5 years ago I paid $100 for a raw copy of the 98-99 EX Century credentials /26 of Mitch Richmond. OK price at the time, pretty much market value (I actually got the other credentials /65 from the same seller for $60, big deal for me!). I sent that one off to be graded and it came back an 8.5. Nothing earth-shattering, I just like having it protected as much as anything else.

Fast forward to last week when one popped up at auction in surprisingly bad condition, PSA 5. I followed it, as I do most rare Mitches even if I already have it, just to see where the market is. It was sitting around $50 with a few hours left. I thought it might climb near $100, maybe a bit over if two collectors are afraid they'll never seen one for awhile longer, but...well just look.


[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-Skybox-E-X-Essential-Credentials-Now-Mitch-Richmond-26-26-PSA-5-EX-PWCC/352929558399?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649[/url]




Just wow. Looked at the bid history and it's iffy but no retractions from any of the bidders. Are we really at the place where the desirable 90s stuff of fringe stars goes for this kind of money in this kind of condition??

I sent a 97-98 credentials of Michael Finley to PWCC, which ended last night. It finished for $819. I couldn’t believe that, was expecting $500.

The point is, the rare 90’s market has been incredibly unpredictable lately, it’s tough to use the same comps we previously used.

I think this is more a product of Credentials going bonkers rather than ALL 90's numbered stuff. You can still buy like Flair legacies of scrubs for like 10 bucks and decent players for less than 50.

These are the kind of price increases that make sense to me. Where there still is a market for these cards (doesn't matter if it's people clout chasing on instagram or collecting for the love of the cards, the price is the price) with FOMO being the true driving factor. The person that put in that winning bid probably earnestly believed they might never see another one of these for sale again, and now was the time to win this. The flip side of this, and this worries me a bit - no one on the planet that buys a psa 10 doncic silver prizm thinks they'll never see another one.

Wait until the rise of 2010s numbered stuff

I've had a good time buying up a lot of the Fleer Retro.

Not the same as the originals, but much easier on the pocketbook.

And even those are on the rise in price. 5 years ago, Lebron PMG Greens were going for $800-1500. Now sellers are asking 10-20k

No retractions but the winning bid has 83% of their bids with the seller. I do not know every way to tell for sketchy bidding but that looks like it to me. 90's cards are still on the rise. I will hate to see some of the big cards I need to show up because they will be pricey.

[QUOTE=kukocitb;15470929]No retractions but the winning bid has 83% of their bids with the seller. I do not know every way to tell for sketchy bidding but that looks like it to me. 90's cards are still on the rise. I will hate to see some of the big cards I need to show up because they will be pricey.[/QUOTE]

Super awesome looking card, I love it! The bid activity......not so much.

[QUOTE=minnesotachill;15470877]I've had a good time buying up a lot of the Fleer Retro.

Not the same as the originals, but much easier on the pocketbook.

And even those are on the rise in price. 5 years ago, Lebron PMG Greens were going for $800-1500. Now sellers are asking 10-20k[/QUOTE]




Same...…..I have spent 5 grand on Fleer Retro. Glad to see it is movin' on up...…...now all I need is for that PWCC turd to sell my PMG greens...…..

[QUOTE=Luni;15470798]I think this is more a product of Credentials going bonkers rather than ALL 90's numbered stuff. You can still buy like Flair legacies of scrubs for like 10 bucks and decent players for less than 50.[/QUOTE]

This has been the notable exception I agree. Mitches still go for $30ish usually. Obviously /150 or /100 isn't as rare as /26 but still surprising.

@mglevy also true. Just too much volatility to have any reasonable certainty, even if there are recent comps (which there aren't for this particular card anyways). Still just a bit jarring as I'd like to think I'm in touch with this highly specific micro-market. Guess not!

This Giannis was a 50.00 card soon after release....I'm lucky to have picked up two of them.

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-14-Metal-Universe-Precious-Metal-Gems-PMG-Red-Giannis-Antetokounmpo-RC-150/362873478124?hash=item547cf1dbec:g:42wAAOSwtN9eE3yt[/url]

see that ^^^ is interesting too. The nostalgia of 90s designs- at least in my educated guessing- wouldn't necessarily pertain to modern players though. I'm guessing that's moreso a factor of Giannis's rise than anything else.

Better grab some Fleer legacies while you can before the hypers make that their next target.

These types of jumps are almost always driven by market manipulation. Those who believe it's anything but that are usually the ones left holding the hot potato when the music stops.

credentials are pretty beloved and a super iconic set, so i think its probably going to demand a little more of a premium than others

other things that have bubbled a little but probably deserve a bump

super raves
metal titanium /40
diamond dimensions /100 - hand numbered /100
maybe 2nd year rubies?

[QUOTE=mondogenerator;15472054]credentials are pretty beloved and a super iconic set, so i think its probably going to demand a little more of a premium than others

other things that have bubbled a little but probably deserve a bump

super raves
metal titanium /40
diamond dimensions /100 - hand numbered /100
maybe 2nd year rubies?[/QUOTE]


I can't speak to the first three on that list but 97-98 rubies have skyrocketed. I keep trying to pry hairyangryfella's Mitch away. At one point like 4 years ago he wanted $85, now he wants $300 (but currently has no plans to sell, that's just a ballpark figure he's thrown out recently!) and both were probably pretty dead on from a market valuation standpoint.

[QUOTE=buckunteer;15472198]I can't speak to the first three on that list but 97-98 rubies have skyrocketed. I keep trying to pry hairyangryfella's Mitch away. At one point like 4 years ago he wanted $85, now he wants $300 (but currently has no plans to sell, that's just a ballpark figure he's thrown out recently!) and both were probably pretty dead on from a market valuation standpoint.[/QUOTE]

hah yeah, i remember when he was a huge MR collector.

we actually used to work together in the same company for a while as well.

its good to see cards on the rise from that era, that's basically where my heart is for collecting, even though ive kinda run out of things to buy except for a few toughies.

[QUOTE=mondogenerator;15472054]credentials are pretty beloved and a super iconic set, so i think its probably going to demand a little more of a premium than others

other things that have bubbled a little but probably deserve a bump

super raves
metal titanium /40
diamond dimensions /100 - hand numbered /100
maybe 2nd year rubies?[/QUOTE]

Are you talking about Z Force super raves? The Skybox Thunder Raves and Super Raves are IMPOSSIBLE to find. A lot of player PCers need them. Watch out for fake Jordans and Kobes. Pippen and Rodman might be in the mix too. Would love to score a Kukoc Thunder Rave or Super Rave.

I hate seeing the 90's stuff and getting exciting only to read "serial number missing" wtf happened there.

[QUOTE=fdjizm;15473578]I hate seeing the 90's stuff and getting exciting only to read "serial number missing" wtf happened there.[/QUOTE]

Usually it is sheets that were backdoored or sold during the Fleer bankruptcy. Some people enjoy collecting them since they are MUCH cheaper than the original but I do not. Some people buy them and try adding the serial number so you have to do your research.

[QUOTE=buckunteer;15471644]see that ^^^ is interesting too. The nostalgia of 90s designs- at least in my educated guessing- wouldn't necessarily pertain to modern players though. I'm guessing that's moreso a factor of Giannis's rise than anything else.[/QUOTE]

I have to disagree on that as his Crusade prizms are still sub 200.00 while all others have boomed.....and the PMG is most likely the result of the previous PMG following....collectors love these, and the fact that Giannis cards are booming does help....but I believe the main point of these exploded is the fact of the PMG following.

[QUOTE=kukocitb;15473559]Are you talking about Z Force super raves? The Skybox Thunder Raves and Super Raves are IMPOSSIBLE to find. A lot of player PCers need them. Watch out for fake Jordans and Kobes. Pippen and Rodman might be in the mix too. Would love to score a Kukoc Thunder Rave or Super Rave.[/QUOTE]

yeah the skybox super raves.

im so damn glad i got most of my rare pc stuff when it came out or within years of release before it got bootlegged to hell n back. there is one damon on ebay atm and its 450usd or best offer. i was like errr that seems crazy

just as a sample for surprising DS prices ive seen (my pc guy)

1997 red pmg - 660usd
1997 jambalya - 250-300usd
1998 cosigners w duncan - 180usd
i think there was a 98 ruby that went over 300usd too
97-98 credentials went for over 300 as well

id HATE to start collecting a 90s guy atm and facing this kinda stuff.

[QUOTE=mondogenerator;15474585]yeah the skybox super raves.

im so damn glad i got most of my rare pc stuff when it came out or within years of release before it got bootlegged to hell n back. there is one damon on ebay atm and its 450usd or best offer. i was like errr that seems crazy

just as a sample for surprising DS prices ive seen (my pc guy)

1997 red pmg - 660usd
1997 jambalya - 250-300usd
1998 cosigners w duncan - 180usd
i think there was a 98 ruby that went over 300usd too
97-98 credentials went for over 300 as well

id HATE to start collecting a 90s guy atm and facing this kinda stuff.[/QUOTE]

Last Kukoc PMG red sold for a grand if legit. CRAZY. DS was fun to watch. I always catch myself trying to look for other players to collect and I cannot afford to collect Kukoc LOL!

[QUOTE=kukocitb;15473559]Are you talking about Z Force super raves? The Skybox Thunder Raves and Super Raves are IMPOSSIBLE to find. A lot of player PCers need them. Watch out for fake Jordans and Kobes. Pippen and Rodman might be in the mix too. Would love to score a Kukoc Thunder Rave or Super Rave.[/QUOTE]

funny you mentioned those, i just sold a super rave /25 to a guy a few days ago.

one of the most underrated/prices sets from the 90s no doubt. thats one set that will skyrocket at some point.

[QUOTE=ungraded90s;15474980]funny you mentioned those, i just sold a super rave /25 to a guy a few days ago.

one of the most underrated/prices sets from the 90s no doubt. thats one set that will skyrocket at some point.[/QUOTE]

I hope it wasn't Kukoc LOL LOL! Who was it?

[QUOTE=kukocitb;15475066]I hope it wasn't Kukoc LOL LOL! Who was it?[/QUOTE]

naw allan houston. i did fall asleep during a auction a few years ago and got outbid on a kukoc 98-99 starquest gold /100. 77 dollars. smh.

[QUOTE=ungraded90s;15475528]naw allan houston. i did fall asleep during a auction a few years ago and got outbid on a kukoc 98-99 starquest gold /100. 77 dollars. smh.[/QUOTE]



That was me lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=kukocitb;15474046]Usually it is sheets that were backdoored or sold during the Fleer bankruptcy. Some people enjoy collecting them since they are MUCH cheaper than the original but I do not. Some people buy them and try adding the serial number so you have to do your research.[/QUOTE]

Yep. I've seen this done to 97-98 Finest Gold /289 cards.

I used to have one of the EX-Century ones /26 that just sold, moved it when I sold off the best cards from my Mitch collection years ago. Never expected this one to go for so much (and makes me wish I'd held onto it).
Just sold my Star Rubies for $350 reasonably quickly and am a bit shocked about that.

[QUOTE=kukocitb;15474598]Last Kukoc PMG red sold for a grand if legit. CRAZY. DS was fun to watch. I always catch myself trying to look for other players to collect and I cannot afford to collect Kukoc LOL![/QUOTE]

man that's WAY up there. I got my Mitch almost 2 years ago for less than 1/4 of that. A green popped up a few months later and was on ebay for a few weeks before it went off. Guessing an off-site deal was made. Lord knows how much for :doh:


and @hairyangryfella if you really sold the Mitch without getting ahold of me first I'm gonna fly down there and we're gonna have words!!!

[QUOTE=kukocitb;15474598]Last Kukoc PMG red sold for a grand if legit. CRAZY. DS was fun to watch. I always catch myself trying to look for other players to collect and I cannot afford to collect Kukoc LOL![/QUOTE]



I am still waiting on Lorenzen Wright to take off...………...

[QUOTE=DajuanWagner;15477050]I am still waiting on Lorenzen Wright to take off...………...[/QUOTE]

He might have. It seems that the PMG craze is all of them. Probably not a grand but I would guess 2-3x what you paid for it.

[QUOTE=buckunteer;15476919]man that's WAY up there. I got my Mitch almost 2 years ago for less than 1/4 of that. A green popped up a few months later and was on ebay for a few weeks before it went off. Guessing an off-site deal was made. Lord knows how much for :doh:


and @hairyangryfella if you really sold the Mitch without getting ahold of me first I'm gonna fly down there and we're gonna have words!!![/QUOTE]

Yeah when deals are made offline it can be super frustrating.

This is the result of a bunch of Kobe/Lebron collectors with deep pockets that all happen to know each other. They are manipulating the market for all rare 90s/early 2000s inserts because that’s all they collect and they all know they will benefit from their collective market manipulation.
Very well done by these collectors!

[QUOTE=Vladdy Jr;15477080]This is the result of a bunch of Kobe/Lebron collectors with deep pockets that all happen to know each other. They are manipulating the market for all rare 90s/early 2000s inserts because that’s all they collect and they all know they will benefit from their collective market manipulation.
Very well done by these collectors![/QUOTE]

Or...

They collect the cards and can pay to buy them. When multiple collectors with mutual interests have the financial capabilities to buy these cards, the market climbs. While I agree there definitely is market manipulation present in some cases, it’s not always the case.

[QUOTE=mglevy125;15477732]Or...

They collect the cards and can pay to buy them. When multiple collectors with mutual interests have the financial capabilities to buy these cards, the market climbs. While I agree there definitely is market manipulation present in some cases, it’s not always the case.[/QUOTE]

WELL SAID. I was trying to say something similar but could not get it down right.

[QUOTE=mglevy125;15477732]Or...

They collect the cards and can pay to buy them. When multiple collectors with mutual interests have the financial capabilities to buy these cards, the market climbs. While I agree there definitely is market manipulation present in some cases, it’s not always the case.[/QUOTE]




orrrrrr, what Vladdy Jr said...……..

[QUOTE=kukocitb;15475530]That was me lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

i was salty about that card for awhile lol, congrats. its one of the nicer cards of his i think.

its not that vladdy is wrong, but theres many more reasons. you just dont see much of the basketball stuff going around and much of it was underpriced in the first place and still is.

unless the entire hobby took a hit, you'll never see cards like red gems go for under 100.00 dollars like you could get a few years back. all this stuff will keep rising.

[QUOTE=buckunteer;15476919]and @hairyangryfella if you really sold the Mitch without getting ahold of me first I'm gonna fly down there and we're gonna have words!!![/QUOTE]

Based on all of our previous discussions over the card you would never have afforded that, and anytime we may have gotten close you'd buy something else. I needed the money, put it up for show as someone commented it was fake (which was impossible) and sold instantly. Sorry.
Still in NZ so you can fly down and see the new owner if you like...