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Rolling Thread for 90s Fakes and Backdoored Cards

I’ve created this thread as an all-encompassing, centralized resource for information about 90s fakes and backdoored cards. I’ll be updating it regularly as cards hit the auction block. Feel free to contribute your knowledge, call out questionable/fake listings, or ask questions.

[B][COLOR="Red"][U]*Please don’t discuss how to identify fakes as that information could be used by forgers. If you notice a difference keep it to yourself*[/U][/COLOR][/B]

[SIZE="4"][B]F.A.Q.[/B][/SIZE]

[I]Are the PSA and BGS slabs fake or just the cards?[/I]
The PSA and BGS slabs are real. Neither company currently has the expertise to identify fakes consistently.

[I]If you say a card is real, does that mean it's 100% real?[/I]
You can't be absolutely 100% certain ANY card is real without provenance. Keeping up with forgers is an arms race and it's impossible to tell whether you’re one step ahead or behind. If forgers release a new generation of fake that corrects the mistakes used to identify them, then they won't be recognized.

[I]Can you tell me how you know a card is fake?[/I]
No, because that information could assist forgers.

[I]How can I learn to tell if a card is fake?[/I]
Study the fine details and train yourself to spot differences. Anyone with good eyesight and time can teach themselves to do it.

Methods you shouldn't use:
Coloring (can vary based on how image is captured; can also vary between real copies)
Seller location (there plenty of authentic 90s cards being sold out of China/Taiwan/Hong Kong)
Seller history (many sellers don’t realize they’re selling fakes and have authentic cards mixed into their inventory)

[I]Where do these fakes come from?[/I]
From my research, they were likely manufactured in China, possibly Guangzhou. That being said, the mastermind(s) may be from Hong Kong or Taiwan. I don't have many leads, so if anyone has more information by all means share.

[B][SIZE="4"]GLOSSARY OF TERMS AND HOW I PERSONALLY USE THEM:[/SIZE][/B]

[I][U]Fake[/U][/I] — A counterfeit card manufactured from the ground up in an attempt to imitate the original.

[I][U]Real/Authentic[/U][/I] — A card that, [U]to my knowledge[/U], isn't fake. Any card I describe as 'real' I would feel comfortable buying myself.

[I][U]Backdoored[/U][/I] — A card printed by the company but never officially released to the public. Generally leaked from the factory by unscrupulous employees or sold during the infamous 2004 Fleer bankruptcy auction. The vast majority were cut from sheets. Many have had fake serial numbers applied in an attempt to pass them off as original, pack-pulled copies.

[I][U]Pack-pulled[/U][/I] — Any card pulled directly from a pack; therefore not backdoored or fake.

[B][U][SIZE="6"][COLOR="Red"]KNOWN FAKE SETS:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/U][/B]

[U][B][SIZE="5"][COLOR="Blue"]1996-97 Fleer Ultra Platinum Medallion:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/U]

Players known to be faked: Kobe Bryant (base, Encore), Michael Jordan (base; others suspected)

[SIZE="4"][B][U]Authentic examples:[/U][/B][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/PklO4b1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/vaKLefP.png[/IMG]

[SIZE="4"][U][B]Fake examples:[/B][/U][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/eLs3dZp.png[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/V716d1e.png[/IMG]

[B][U][SIZE="5"][COLOR="Blue"]1997-98 Skybox Premium Star Rubies:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/U][/B]

Players known to be faked: Michael Jordan (base, Team Skybox), Kobe Bryant (base, Team Skybox), Tim Duncan (base, Team Skybox), Penny Hardaway (base, Team Skybox)

[SIZE="4"][B][U]Authentic examples:[/U][/B][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/eBzUwpe.png[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/nkbDZJp.png[/IMG]

[SIZE="4"][B][U]Fake examples:[/U][/B][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/xo9sLuF.png[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/gbe0K19.png[/IMG]

[B][U][SIZE="5"][COLOR="blue"]1997-98 Metal Universe Championship Precious Metal Gems:[/COLOR][/SIZE] [/U][/B]

Players known to be faked: Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Penny Hardaway

[SIZE="4"][U][B]Authentic examples:[/B][/U][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/zV9YGHl.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/TYDTHyn.jpg[/IMG]

[SIZE="4"][U][B]Fake examples:[/B][/U][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/LbmuSfv.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/TGzU0cv.jpg[/IMG]

[B][U][SIZE="5"][U][B][COLOR="blue"]1997-98 Metal Universe Precious Metal Gems Red:[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE][/U][/B]

Players known to be faked: Michael Jordan

[U][B][SIZE="4"]Fake examples: [/SIZE][/B][/U]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/uTtI3Mnh.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/nOZugWqh.png[/IMG]

[U][B][SIZE="5"][COLOR="blue"]1997-98 Skybox Z-Force Series 2 Super Rave:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/U]

Known fakes: Michael Jordan (Zupermen), Kobe Bryant (Zupermen), Tim Duncan (base)

[B][U][SIZE="4"]Authentic example:[/SIZE][/U][/B]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/saCYA5l.png[/IMG]

[U][B][SIZE="4"]Fake example:[/SIZE][/B][/U]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/g5oAU9q.png[/IMG]

[B][U][SIZE="5"][COLOR="blue"]1998-99 Skybox Thunder Rave:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/U][/B]

Players Known to be faked: Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Scottie Pippen

[SIZE="4"][U][B]Authentic example:[/B][/U][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/1jhOhBX.jpg[/IMG]

[SIZE="4"][U][B]Fake example:[/B][/U][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/0v3hFte.png[/IMG]

[U][B][SIZE="5"]1998-99 Skybox Premium Series 1 Star Rubies:[/SIZE][/B][/U]

Series 2 is unaffected. Players known to be faked: Michael Jordan, Tim Duncan, Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, Penny Hardaway

[SIZE="4"][U][B]Authentic example: [/B][/U][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/movEeiX.jpg[/IMG]

[SIZE="4"][U][B]Fake example: [/B][/U][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Ob9eza3.png[/IMG]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="5"][B][U]1998-99 Hoops Starting 5:[/U][/B][/SIZE][/COLOR]

Players known to be faked: All

The only thing that differentiates Hoops Starting 5 parallels from the base set is a foil stamp in the corner. Forgers have recreated the stamp and applied them to authentic base cards.

Thank you to phdbeckett for providing the information on how to spot these.

[SIZE="4"][U][B]Real example: [/B][/U][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/kftTdan.jpg[/IMG]

[SIZE="4"][U][B]Fake example: [/B][/U][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/KfHQPom.jpg[/IMG]

[U][B][SIZE="5"][COLOR="blue"]1998-99 Skybox Metal Universe Gem Masters:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/U]

Players known to be faked: Kobe Bryant, Penny Hardaway

[SIZE="4"][U][B]Real example: [/B][/U][/SIZE]

COMING SOON

[SIZE="4"][U][B]Fake example: [/B][/U][/SIZE]

COMING SOON

ALSO COMING SOON:
BMOC/zpeat
Cut above

[B][U][SIZE="6"][COLOR="red"]SETS THAT WERE BACKDOORED FROM FLEER/TOPPS:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/U][/B]

[B][U][SIZE="5"][COLOR="blue"]1997-98 Skybox Z-Force Rave:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/U][/B]

All players affected. Many released with partial “OF 399” stamp but no actual unique serial number

[SIZE="4"][U][B]Pack-pulled example: [/B][/U][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/vzdlMG5.jpg[/IMG]

[SIZE="4"][U][B]Backdoored examples with fake serial numbers:[/B][/U][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/gEPC5Yx.png[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Sk7pJpjh.png[/IMG]

[SIZE="4"][U][B]How to spot the difference:[/B][/U][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/AZVBFkc.png[/IMG]

[B][U][SIZE="5"][COLOR="blue"]1998-99 Fleer Tradition Playmaker's Theatre:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/U][/B]

All players potentially affected. Be advised that fake stamps have been observed on both embossed and non-embossed copies. Just because the card is embossed and has a serial number does not mean it was pack pulled.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Ku5Nm4Ch.png[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/REskBvBh.jpg[/IMG]

[SIZE="4"][U][B]How to spot the difference: [/B][/U][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/X5L29mJh.png[/IMG]

[B][U][SIZE="5"][COLOR="blue"]1997-98 E-X2001 Essential Credentials:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/U][/B]

All players potentially affected.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Pmd4DJZh.png[/IMG]

[B][U][SIZE="5"][COLOR="blue"]1997-98 Topps Finest:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/U][/B]

All players potentially affected.

[SIZE="4"][U][B]How to spot the difference: [/B][/U][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/cWwVaMdh.png[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/xtZ9grRh.png[/IMG]

[SIZE="5"][B][COLOR="blue"][U]1997-98 Skybox Star Rubies:[/U][/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]

These are interesting because the stamps on backdoored copies are very similar to the stamps used on the Team Skybox subset. There is a chance these were released as replacements for damaged cards. The explanation for the strange stamping would be that Fleer used the stamp for the Team Skybox cards by accident when making the replacements. If that's the case, then these shouldn't really be considered backdoored cards.

[SIZE="4"][U][B]How to spot the difference: [/B][/U][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/0NKF88mh.jpg[/IMG]

[SIZE="4"][U][B]Other examples with questionable stamping: [/B][/U][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/VlqPGML.png[/IMG]

[SIZE="5"][B][COLOR="blue"][U]1998-99 Skybox Star Rubies:[/U][/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]

All players affected. Many released with partial “OF 50 STAR RUBIES” stamp but no actual unique serial number

[SIZE="4"][U][B]Real card with authentic serial number: [/B][/U][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/EODeVMG.png[/IMG]

[SIZE="4"][U][B]Backdoored card with fake serial number: [/B][/U][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/o0yQsrP.png[/IMG]

[SIZE="5"][B][COLOR="blue"][U]1997-98 Flair Showcase Legacy Collection:[/U][/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]

All players affected. Most are missing player's name on back. On real serial numbers, 'O' in 'OF' should be rounder than '0's in '100'.

[SIZE="4"][U][B]How to spot the difference: [/B][/U][/SIZE]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/NkDIfxBh.png[/IMG]

ALSO COMING SOON:
That Stadium Club set, forget what it’s called.
Flair legacy collection
All those other Topps sets with fake stamps.

[I]A reminder that any statements I make are merely my own opinion and the result of good-faith analysis.[/I]

Starting off with a fake 1996-97 Ultra Michael Jordan Platinum Medallion:

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-97-Fleer-Ultra-Platinum-P16-Michael-Jordan-Chicago-Bulls-HOF-RARE/383341560644?hash=item5940f00344:g:u00AAOSw4wZeBk7v[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/TpsjpdJh.png[/IMG]

Great thread. Thanks for sharing. I’d love a couple of tips on how to spot the difference for each card. The fakes would’ve fooled me - especially when graded.

I have so information about 1998-99 Hoops Starting 5s. I can pm you and send documents if needed.

How many of the fakes you've outed that have been graded by PSA have had their cert # rescinded?

[QUOTE=KhalDrogo;15411810]How many of the fakes you've outed that have been graded by PSA have had their cert # rescinded?[/QUOTE]

PSA won't rescind a cert on a fake card without inspecting the card themselves first. I've helped about 8-10 people send in their cards to PSA for a review and refund.

I will give credit to PSA that they've acknowledged their mistake in every instance so far. As far as I know, everyone who has sent in a graded fake for review has been made whole. That being said, these are only the cases I was personally involved in; not sure how others have fared.

I can't speak to BGS since they've never engaged with me in any of my messages.

[QUOTE=rogermaris;15412634]PSA won't rescind a cert on a fake card without inspecting the card themselves first. I've helped about 8-10 people send in their cards to PSA for a review and refund.

I will give credit to PSA that they've acknowledged their mistake in every instance so far. As far as I know, everyone who has sent in a graded fake for review has been made whole. That being said, these are only the cases I was personally involved in; not sure how others have fared.

I can't speak to BGS since they've never engaged with me in any of my messages.[/QUOTE]

I think using the term "mistake" is giving them the benefit of doubt. Do you know for certain that they didn't know it was fake when graded? These two companies were pushing to get the best cards graded to grow business. I would withhold judgement either way.

Not trying to be a jerk and this is awesome work!

[QUOTE=jeromeparot;15411613]Great thread. Thanks for sharing. I’d love a couple of tips on how to spot the difference for each card. The fakes would’ve fooled me - especially when graded.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Round Mound;15411796]Same here. Some are quite obvious, but some are really not![/QUOTE]

He won't say:
[url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpost.php?p=15394615&postcount=670[/url]

The best answer of all this 90's fake cards should come from JEAN & EARLof Arena Design..

That's all i can say...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=dustin42;15412781]I think using the term "mistake" is giving them the benefit of doubt. Do you know for certain that they didn't know it was fake when graded? These two companies were pushing to get the best cards graded to grow business. I would withhold judgement either way. [/QUOTE]

I genuinely don't believe anyone at PSA is [I]knowingly[/I] grading fakes. The issue seems to be that there are only a handful of graders who know how to identify them. But PSA assigns cards to graders randomly, allowing most fakes to slip through the cracks.

But you're right, maybe calling it a mistake is generous. Willful ineptitude might be more apt. Despite being made aware of their issues, PSA continues to grade the same fakes over and over again. If PSA really cared about the issue they would either train their graders better or create a system whereby certain sets are only reviewed by the handful of graders with the expertise to assess them properly. But unfortunately from what I can tell, PSA won't address any issues with their grading unless it affects their bottom line.

BGS seems to be even worse though, as sad as that sounds...

Pumping out more graded cards is the only way for them to stay in business. There is only a limited supply of really high-end cards so they have to resort to fraud to keep pumping out ones people think they can make a killing on.

When people see the prices on these fakes and or altered/trimmed cards they think they can make a ton by submitting cards which makes TPG more money.

Never get cheated.

[QUOTE=rogermaris;15414902]BGS seems to be even worse though, as sad as that sounds...[/QUOTE]

Yep

That 9.5 Championship PMG is still listed in BGS database as well :doh:

Unreal

Sometimes I get the urge to pick up a big late 90s card and then I remember threads like this and get scared. Still haven't pulled the trigger and not sure that I ever will.

Main post has been updated with the Hoops Starting 5 set. Thanks to phdbeckett for the info.

This fake 1998-99 Hoops Starting 5 Kobe Bryant is currently listed on ebay:

[URL="https://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-Hoops-Starting-Five-1-Kobe-Bryant-3-5-BGS-9-5-POP-1-Lakers/323878222399?hash=item4b68a57a3f:g:F8EAAOSwf8RdSgIo"]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-Hoops-Starting-Five-1-Kobe-Bryant-3-5-BGS-9-5-POP-1-Lakers/323878222399?hash=item4b68a57a3f:g:F8EAAOSwf8RdSgIo[/URL]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/cLvE4qyh.png[/IMG]

These were posted in the last thread; moving them here since I believe they're all still listed.

[U][B][SIZE="4"]Fake 1996-97 Ultra Platinum Medallion Kobe Bryant:[/SIZE][/B][/U]

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-97-Ultra-PLATINUM-MEDALLION-Kobe-Bryant-Rookie-Card-Rare-P52/274167461324?hash=item3fd5a775cc:g:PSQAAOSwvd9d~ZJK[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/azL8LOkh.png[/IMG]

[B][U][SIZE="4"]Fake 1996-97 Ultra Platinum Medallion Michael Jordan:[/SIZE][/U][/B]

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-97-Fleer-Ultra-Platinum-P16-Michael-Jordan-Chicago-Bulls-HOF-SGC-8-5-MT/324030442304?hash=item4b71b82b40:g:SggAAOSwi5VeDk~1[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/FdJqgtzh.png[/IMG]

[B][U][SIZE="4"]Fake 1998-99 Skybox Thunder Rave Michael Jordan:[/SIZE][/U][/B]

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/Michael-Jordan-1998-99-Skybox-Thunder-Rave-125-150-Rare-90s-Insert-NM-MT/164014542646?hash=item2630074f36:g:gpYAAOSwi7xeDPyO:sc:USPSPriority!90230!US!-1[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/AZx2HZjh.png[/IMG]

[B][U][SIZE="4"]Fake 1998-99 Skybox Thunder Rave Scottie Pippen:[/SIZE][/U][/B]

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/SSP-THUNDER-RAVE-70-150-PSA-9-MINT-SCOTTIE-PIPPEN-1998-SKYBOX-120-SICK-CARD/163920573613?hash=item262a6d74ad:g:~7UAAOSwkP1dxK4I[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/jsugQTah.png[/IMG]

Thanks for all your work on this! :)!

This thread is great.
Somehow fakes seem limited to few high-end sets and specific players, is that right? I thought there would be many more...

[QUOTE=HoustOM;15422415]Somehow fakes seem limited to few high-end sets and specific players, is that right? I thought there would be many more...[/QUOTE]

Correct. It seems to be the same 5-6 players over and over again, and only limited to high-end parallel/insert sets.

If you collect other players, or if you stick to mid/low-end cards, then you don't need to worry. I have a feeling producing these high-end counterfeits is extremely time consuming and expensive, so the other stuff probably just isn't worth their time.

[QUOTE=rogermaris;15422481]Correct. It seems to be the same 5-6 players over and over again, and only limited to high-end parallel/insert sets.

If you collect other players, or if you stick to mid/low-end cards, then you don't need to worry. I have a feeling producing these high-end counterfeits is extremely time consuming and expensive, so the other stuff probably just isn't worth their time.[/QUOTE]

Or maybe it is cheaper and easier to fake patches and autos...with higher benefits...

I can provide an example of a 97-98 skybox rubies keith van horn if you want to add the pics. Pretty sure it's a backdoored/ bankruptcy card with an added serial number and graded by beckett.

[QUOTE=artyman60;15422859]I can provide an example of a 97-98 skybox rubies keith van horn if you want to add the pics. Pretty sure it's a backdoored/ bankruptcy card with an added serial number and graded by beckett.[/QUOTE]

If it's 11/50, I just added it to the post. But if you have a better scan of the back I'll take it, thanks.

I also just updated the 1998-99 Star Ruby section with a backdoored Van Horn. Pictures are terrible though. Do you happen to know who owns those cards? I remember a Van Horn collector sent them to me; he owned both...

Thanks for posting this thread! Extremely helpful information!!!

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-Skybox-Z-Force-Big-Man-On-Court-Z-Peat-Die-Cut-Michael-Jordan-BGS-9-5-PWCC/143498944496?hash=item2169341ff0:g:OskAAOSwnxxeGiep[/url]

z-peat bmoc, the rounded "n" in "men" is suspect

[URL=https://s238.photobucket.com/user/waxbusters/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20200109_125555.jpg.html][IMG]https://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff193/waxbusters/Mobile%20Uploads/20200109_125555.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=https://s238.photobucket.com/user/waxbusters/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20200109_125545.jpg.html][IMG]https://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff193/waxbusters/Mobile%20Uploads/20200109_125545.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Fake 1996-97 Michael Jordan Platinum Medallion:

[URL="https://www.ebay.com/itm/Michael-jordan-Fleer-Ultra-Refractor-Platinum-P16-96-Rare-SEC101/164028703295?hash=item2630df623f:g:CZoAAOSwdi5eG0iL"]https://www.ebay.com/itm/Michael-jordan-Fleer-Ultra-Refractor-Platinum-P16-96-Rare-SEC101/164028703295?hash=item2630df623f:g:CZoAAOSwdi5eG0iL[/URL]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/u9VkOfph.png[/IMG]

I appreciate that he included a base card next to it in the photograph. I've always felt the fake platinum medallions looked a lot more washed out than real copies, but I could never be sure.

This is the first time I've seen a fake platinum medallion side-by-side with a real one in the same picture, and you can see just how washed out the colors are on the photo of the fake.

Platinum on left is fake; base card on right is real:

[IMG] https://i.imgur.com/fAkStoRh.jpg[/IMG]

So I have a question

Are these fake cards in fake slabs

or

Are these fake cards and the grading companies are grading them as legitimate cards?

[QUOTE=cking;15438030]So I have a question

Are these fake cards in fake slabs

or

Are these fake cards and the grading companies are grading them as legitimate cards?[/QUOTE]
Fake cards in real slabs.

The original fake PMG, etc. thread has a lot more discussion on it. But in short, PSA and BGS don't have the expertise readily available to prevent these fakes from getting through.

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-Finest-Refractor-Michael-Jordan-289-154-PSA-9-Very-Rare-SP-157-289/202879496340?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649[/url]

Im interested in buying this. scared it's a fake serial number. Looks legit to me

[QUOTE=WhiteSoxJosh;15476075][url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-Finest-Refractor-Michael-Jordan-289-154-PSA-9-Very-Rare-SP-157-289/202879496340?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649[/url]

Im interested in buying this. scared it's a fake serial number. Looks legit to me[/QUOTE]

One of these is fake.

[url]https://www.comc.com/Cards/Basketball/1997-98/Topps_Finest_-_Base_-_Refractor/154/Michael_Jordan/10732442[/url]

[QUOTE=phdbeckett;15476103]Small font numerator with small font denominator is a no go on this one.[/QUOTE]

What about this one? I'm about 99% sure I pulled a Ewing silver /1090 with the numbering all the same size out of series 1. I think series 1 had numbering like this and series 2 had the numerator then the word "of" then the denominator.

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mitch-Richmond-1997-98-Topps-finest-164-Die-cut-Embossed-Atomic-Refractor-74/202880483431?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649[/url]

[QUOTE=dustin42;15476108]One of these is fake.

[url]https://www.comc.com/Cards/Basketball/1997-98/Topps_Finest_-_Base_-_Refractor/154/Michael_Jordan/10732442[/url][/QUOTE]

see that COMC one looks bad to me.
Geez, this is such a turnoff to collecting. Im thankful for this forum and this thread. thank you guys for responding.

[QUOTE=WhiteSoxJosh;15476282]see that COMC one looks bad to me.
Geez, this is such a turnoff to collecting. Im thankful for this forum and this thread. thank you guys for responding.[/QUOTE]

The one on eBay is a fake.

[url]https://www.comc.com/Cards/Basketball/1997-98/Topps_Finest_-_Base_-_Refractor/154/Michael_Jordan/10732442/Graded/BGS/8_5[/url]

[url]https://www.comc.com/Cards/Basketball/1997-98/Topps_Finest_-_Base_-_Refractor/154/Michael_Jordan/10732442/Graded/BGS/9[/url]

Great comparisons guys! The only ways to know are the great scan examples with evidence or collectors who can share their expertise from that time period.

[QUOTE=WhiteSoxJosh;15476075][url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-Finest-Refractor-Michael-Jordan-289-154-PSA-9-Very-Rare-SP-157-289/202879496340?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649[/url]

Im interested in buying this. scared it's a fake serial number. Looks legit to me[/QUOTE]
That seller has a bunch of other rare cards for sale. Any thoughts if any other items are fake/backdoored? I'm interested in this MJ

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-99-Fleer-Ultra-Platinum-Medallion-Michael-Jordan-99-HOF-RARE-Card-SP/202879534424?hash=item2f3c900558:g:CckAAOSwN~VeINve[/url]

[QUOTE=Gem10collection;15476443]That seller has a bunch of other rare cards for sale. Any thoughts if any other items are fake/backdoored? I'm interested in this MJ

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-99-Fleer-Ultra-Platinum-Medallion-Michael-Jordan-99-HOF-RARE-Card-SP/202879534424?hash=item2f3c900558:g:CckAAOSwN~VeINve[/url][/QUOTE]

Just looking at what they have for sale and how low their eBay score is I would not trust anything they have up.

[QUOTE=dustin42;15476657]Just looking at what they have for sale and how low their eBay score is I would not trust anything they have up.[/QUOTE]

Normally I'd agree but it's a pretty wide array that includes several sets that, to my knowledge, aren't being faked at the moment.

Any word from our resident experts on the Mitch the guy has for sale? I'm on the fence but I'd really like to add it to my PC if legit!

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mitch-Richmond-1997-98-Topps-finest-164-Die-cut-Embossed-Atomic-Refractor-74/202880483431?hash=item2f3c9e8067:g:Xj4AAOSwxcteIkX7[/url]

[QUOTE=rogermaris;15438020]Fake 1996-97 Michael Jordan Platinum Medallion:

[URL="https://www.ebay.com/itm/Michael-jordan-Fleer-Ultra-Refractor-Platinum-P16-96-Rare-SEC101/164028703295?hash=item2630df623f:g:CZoAAOSwdi5eG0iL"]https://www.ebay.com/itm/Michael-jordan-Fleer-Ultra-Refractor-Platinum-P16-96-Rare-SEC101/164028703295?hash=item2630df623f:g:CZoAAOSwdi5eG0iL[/URL]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/u9VkOfph.png[/IMG]

I appreciate that he included a base card next to it in the photograph. I've always felt the fake platinum medallions looked a lot more washed out than real copies, but I could never be sure.

This is the first time I've seen a fake platinum medallion side-by-side with a real one in the same picture, and you can see just how washed out the colors are on the photo of the fake.

Platinum on left is fake; base card on right is real:

[IMG] https://i.imgur.com/fAkStoRh.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Just for the record, there are many cases of color variation amongst authentic 96-97 Fleer Ultra cards. I've seen lots of base cards that are washed out like that. I actually own a Penny base that is washed out exactly like that Jordan.

I'm not saying that Jordan platinum is real. I trust that you have other reasons to believe that card is a fake. I just wanted to post so people don't think that color or lack thereof is a reliable indicator of an authentic or fake card from this set.

[QUOTE=pennywise;15477130]Just for the record, there are many cases of color variation amongst authentic 96-97 Fleer Ultra cards. I've seen lots of base cards that are washed out like that. I actually own a Penny base that is washed out exactly like that Jordan.[/QUOTE]

Yes, pretty much every Fleer set from that period has natural color variations. This was a unique opportunity because I rarely get to see a card I know is fake next to one I know is real in the same picture.

[QUOTE=buckunteer;15476926]
Any word from our resident experts on the Mitch the guy has for sale? I'm on the fence but I'd really like to add it to my PC if legit!

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mitch-Richmond-1997-98-Topps-finest-164-Die-cut-Embossed-Atomic-Refractor-74/202880483431?hash=item2f3c9e8067:g:Xj4AAOSwxcteIkX7[/url][/QUOTE]

Looks legit to me. I've updated the main post with 1997 Topps Finest. I have plenty of pictures of authentic examples, but I need more pictures of cards with fake serial numbers, so if anyone has any please send them to me.

[B][U][SIZE="4"]FAKE 1996-97 Michael Jordan Platinum Medallion:[/SIZE][/U][/B]

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-97-Fleer-Ultra-Platinum-Medallion-Michael-Jordan-SSP/333489272019?hash=item4da58274d3:g:p2UAAOSwIV5eKFqD[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/TiZOCOzh.png[/IMG]

[B][U][SIZE="4"]BACKDOORED 1997-98 Topps Finest Michael Jordan:[/SIZE][/U][/B]

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-Finest-Refractor-Michael-Jordan-289-154-PSA-9-Very-Rare-SP-157-289/202879496340?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055359.m1431.l2649[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/SBRuzwbh.png[/IMG]

I’m interested to hear what the issue is with the Jordan. Is it the serial numbering? I thought I remember seeing/being told that the serial numbering for this set was like that vs the bigger font next to the /289.

There are about a thousand variants of these cards on eBay and worthpoint with no stamping different stamping and just “/289”.

I bought this copy about two years ago from Probstein it seems. So if the above is true, this must be back doored

[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200125/2fb8d2a5867b0c44bcaa5fa0ca9c6b59.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200125/760b945b75b5b5a88043698d4b705e09.jpg[/IMG][IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200125/a2d96e09873856a8b37f525289855f33.jpg[/IMG]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, the issue with your card is indeed the serial numbering. I do believe series 1, legitimate examples the font should be slightly larger as you mentioned for the 172. So, I'm 99% postive some creep stamped the 172 in his basement, and actually even the /289 looks off but on that I'm not as certain.

[QUOTE=rustywest;15480195]Yes, the issue with your card is indeed the serial numbering. I do believe series 1, legitimate examples the font should be slightly larger as you mentioned for the 172. So, I'm 99% postive some creep stamped the 172 in his basement, and actually even the /289 looks off but on that I'm not as certain.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. Like I said I bought from Probstein so now I’m wondering what recourse I have through them or PSA. Technically this card should have been marked “altered” if graded correctly by PSA

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=rj.cataldo;15480207]Thanks. Like I said I bought from Probstein so now I’m wondering what recourse I have through them or PSA. Technically this card should have been marked “altered” if graded correctly by PSA

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

If the serial number is fake, PSA should compensate you $350 for the card.

ETA: So seeing how much you paid, I'd try to go through Rick first.

[QUOTE=rj.cataldo;15480207]Thanks. Like I said I bought from Probstein so now I’m wondering what recourse I have through them or PSA. Technically this card should have been marked “altered” if graded correctly by PSA

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Check out this thread on 97/98 Finest...

[url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1274308[/url]

[QUOTE=3124508 on COMC;15480217]If the serial number is fake, PSA should compensate you $350 for the card.

ETA: So seeing how much you paid, I'd try to go through Rick first.[/QUOTE]

Is that PSAs standard or just the estimated difference between an 8 and an “altered”. I thought PSA policy was to comp the difference. Is there precedent for Probstein to refund after nearly 1.5 years?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=rj.cataldo;15480238]Is that PSAs standard or just the estimated difference between an 8 and an “altered”. I thought PSA policy was to comp the difference. Is there precedent for Probstein to refund after nearly 1.5 years?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

That's the SMR for a PSA 8 copy of that card as far as I can tell. Don't know with Rick; probably depends on the day and his mood regardless.

[QUOTE=3124508 on COMC;15480257]That's the SMR for a PSA 8 copy of that card as far as I can tell. Don't know with Rick; probably depends on the day and his mood regardless.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. Much appreciated. Sad thing is these cards have risen in value so either way it’s a loss. Usually I research extensively, but this may have been a last minute snipe.

It stinks, but seems it’s inevitable to happen given state of hobby. I’ll reach out to Rick and see what he says before I get too worked up over it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=rj.cataldo;15480476]Thanks. Much appreciated. Sad thing is these cards have risen in value so either way it’s a loss. Usually I research extensively, but this may have been a last minute snipe.

It stinks, but seems it’s inevitable to happen given state of hobby. I’ll reach out to Rick and see what he says before I get too worked up over it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Double check me on the SMR, but it sure looks like $350 to me.

I once spoke to a grader who said they don't grade patches or serial numbers, just the card itself.

I told him they claim to be able to detect alterations, and adding a serial number to a card is definitely an alteration, never mind that these cards were all sheet cut to begin with.

I feel like cutting a card in half and swapping out the patch should also qualify a card for the altered designation, but what do I know...

Nevermind. As you were.

[B][U][SIZE="4"]FAKE 1996-97 Michael Jordan Platinum Medallion:[/SIZE][/U][/B]

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-97-Fleer-Ultra-Platinum-P16-Michael-Jordan-Chicago-Bulls-HOF-RARE/383394685806?hash=item59441aa36e:g:GqwAAOSwCgleLznN[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/kuFisM8h.png[/IMG]

[B][U][SIZE="4"]BACKDOORED 1997-98 Michael Jordan Z-Force Rave:[/SIZE][/U][/B]

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/MICHAEL-JORDAN-1997-SKYBOX-Z-FORCE-INSERT-RAVE-399/202892827906?hash=item2f3d5add02:g:BQ0AAOSwNq9eMl4O[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/gIXHJOih.png[/IMG]

Any concerns on this one

[URL="https://www.ebay.com/itm/97-98-Finest-Embossed-Die-Cut-Refractor-325-G-Tim-Duncan-74/283762391135?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D44a7fa608cd04fc2b685ed8ef3494d43%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D303467700749%26itm%3D283762391135%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Aa0cbc41f-4437-11ea-9983-74dbd180d657%7Cparentrq%3Afc0bcef416f0a4b7b74a15effff3ba96%7Ciid%3A1"]Duncan Die cut refractor[/URL]

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/97-98-Finest-Embossed-Die-Cut-Refractor-325-G-Tim-Duncan-74/283762391135?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D44a7fa608cd04fc2b685ed8ef3494d43%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D303467700749%26itm%3D283762391135%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Aa0cbc41f-4437-11ea-9983-74dbd180d657%7Cparentrq%3Afc0bcef416f0a4b7b74a15effff3ba96%7Ciid%3A1[/url]

[QUOTE=bblaue1;15500000]Any concerns on this one

[URL="https://www.ebay.com/itm/97-98-Finest-Embossed-Die-Cut-Refractor-325-G-Tim-Duncan-74/283762391135?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D44a7fa608cd04fc2b685ed8ef3494d43%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D303467700749%26itm%3D283762391135%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Aa0cbc41f-4437-11ea-9983-74dbd180d657%7Cparentrq%3Afc0bcef416f0a4b7b74a15effff3ba96%7Ciid%3A1"]Duncan Die cut refractor[/URL]

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/97-98-Finest-Embossed-Die-Cut-Refractor-325-G-Tim-Duncan-74/283762391135?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D44a7fa608cd04fc2b685ed8ef3494d43%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D303467700749%26itm%3D283762391135%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Aa0cbc41f-4437-11ea-9983-74dbd180d657%7Cparentrq%3Afc0bcef416f0a4b7b74a15effff3ba96%7Ciid%3A1[/url][/QUOTE]

Looks fine to me

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/MICHAEL-JORDAN-1997-SKYBOX-Z-FORCE-INSERT-RAVE-399-PSA-8/153675998540?hash=item23c7cda54c:g:dsUAAOSwLyJdm5OQ[/url]

Using the examples Maris posted, this looks fine, looking for a second opinion or confirmation.

[QUOTE=WhiteSoxJosh;15505693][url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/MICHAEL-JORDAN-1997-SKYBOX-Z-FORCE-INSERT-RAVE-399-PSA-8/153675998540?hash=item23c7cda54c:g:dsUAAOSwLyJdm5OQ[/url]

Using the examples Maris posted, this looks fine, looking for a second opinion or confirmation.[/QUOTE]

No bueno.

[B][U][SIZE="4"]BACKDOORED 1997-98 Michael Jordan Z-Force Rave:[/SIZE][/U][/B]

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/MICHAEL-JORDAN-1997-SKYBOX-Z-FORCE-INSERT-RAVE-399-PSA-8/153675998540?hash=item23c7cda54c:g:dsUAAOSwLyJdm5OQ[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/3rAekovh.png[/IMG]

This just ended a few moments ago...

[B][U][SIZE="4"]BACKDOORED 1997-98 Topps Finest Silver Refractor Kobe Bryant:[/SIZE][/U][/B]

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-98-Finest-Refractor-w-Coating-Kobe-Bryant-137-PSA-10-SN-583-1090-/293447165907?nma=true&si=J8XJYe4XuXWai58LSeTVD48LMEw%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/ynsffjlh.png[/IMG]

[B][U][SIZE="4"]FAKE 1997-98 Z-Force Super Rave Kobe Bryant:[/SIZE][/U][/B]

This one is interesting because the seller put it in an old screw-down to add an air of legitimacy. Unfortunately it looks like it slipped out of place at some point, so now in addition to being fake, it's also damaged:

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-98-Skybox-Z-Force-Superman-Super-Rave-195-Kobe-Bryant-Lakers-50-RARE/383405039014?hash=item5944b89da6:g:FLUAAOSwoFxeOIXv[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/f9yyloth.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=rogermaris;15512671][B][U][SIZE="4"]FAKE 1997-98 Z-Force Super Rave Kobe Bryant:[/SIZE][/U][/B]

This one is interesting because the seller put it in an old screw-down to add an air of legitimacy. Unfortunately it looks like it slipped out of place at some point, so now in addition to being fake, it's also damaged:

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1997-98-Skybox-Z-Force-Superman-Super-Rave-195-Kobe-Bryant-Lakers-50-RARE/383405039014?hash=item5944b89da6:g:FLUAAOSwoFxeOIXv[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/f9yyloth.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Just came here to see if this one had already made it here. :)!

Is there a good thread explaining the backdoor cards? It seems like those cards are only getting picked up here if someone tried to serial number them. I’m interested in the cards impacted, etc.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This Kobe Platinum from sec_101 and being promoted in the Spam section is fake.

[url]https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1351828[/url]
[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/164059781930[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/bC8HK2K.png[/IMG]

[B][U][SIZE="4"]FAKE 1998-99 Thunder Rave Michael Jordan:[/SIZE][/U][/B]

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-99-Skybox-Thunder-Rave-106-Michael-Jordan-150-BGS-9-Mint-Very-Rare/392678522967?hash=item5b6d76c057:g:~sgAAOSwkedeQC7R[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/oph8I1nh.png[/IMG]

Is this backdoored or legit serial number?[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200211/f845227117b1a2afe09b9a5230beb1ed.jpg[/IMG]

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=Gus;15537570]Is this backdoored or legit serial number?[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200211/f845227117b1a2afe09b9a5230beb1ed.jpg[/IMG]

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Hard to tell without a bigger pic.

Hey there!
Great thread to keep everyone aware.

Please also keep in mind the Fleer/Skybox Autographics Century Marks that were backdoored with the Fleer bankruptcy back then. They all had no numbering but the original sparkle foil on it. I do own one without numbering.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2irTeLZ][img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49519667053_1b7c520003_n.jpg[/img][/url]

And no, I don't intend to number it since it's in my PC and I know of the facts.

Cheers, Holger

[QUOTE=rogermaris;15537796]Hard to tell without a bigger pic.[/QUOTE]

How does the front look? The greener the image, the higher the likelihood of an authentic pack issued copy.

This is the closer pic at the serial[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200211/668d3a16f1f925f5e60e840766a6ee89.jpg[/IMG]

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[B][U][SIZE="4"]BACKDOORED 1997-98 Michael Jordan Z-Force Rave:[/SIZE][/U][/B]

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/MICHAEL-JORDAN-1997-SKYBOX-Z-FORCE-INSERT-RAVE-399-Read-Description/202901790536?hash=item2f3de39f48:g:BQ0AAOSwNq9eMl4O[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/W26SpeLh.png[/IMG]

[B][U][SIZE="4"]FAKE 1998-99 Michael Jordan Thunder Rave:[/SIZE][/U][/B]

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-99-Michael-Jordan-Skybox-Thunder-106-Rave-150-BGS-9-Mint-Very-Rare/392689965972?hash=item5b6e255b94:g:~sgAAOSwkedeQC7R[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/SyumL8ah.png[/IMG]

[B][U][SIZE="4"]FAKE 1996-97 Kobe Bryant Platinum Medallion:[/SIZE][/U][/B]

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-97-Fleer-Ultra-Platinum-P52-Kobe-Bryant-Los-Angeles-Lakers-RC-Rookie/362927211380?hash=item548025c374:g:AOwAAOSwBm9eQdHr[/url]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/DBQ5H1qh.png[/IMG]

I am fairly certain I will never buy another expensive card again after this thread.