If you had to choose only one guy who would you pick? Soto, Acuna or Tatis?
 

I know I've mentioned in other posts, but getting back into cards has been a whirlwind after an almost 20 year break lol.

Seems like [B]Soto, Acuna and Tatis[/B] get a ton of love here. For you stat guys...who do you like the BEST out of the three and why?

I know all three are super young and seem to be taking the MLB by storm etc.

Soto personally. Gets the walks

Acuna. Best all around player and gets a ton of hype. He's the only one if the three I could see taking over Trout. Don't think it will happen but he has the best potential.

Buy-in wise, Tatis could be a great option?

no need to choose just one

Soto :)

Acuna is the generational talent, but of course living up to it is far from a given.

All of them are great choices but I would go with Acuna

Soto. Best batting eye.

While I think Soto is the better player, we’re talking in the context of cards and so popularity, hype, the “it factor come into play making Acuna the choice.

By all around potential
Acuna>Tatis>Soto

Soto has the chance to be the best hitter in the league, but defense and base-running matter

Acuna x 100.

Torres

Soto.......

Bought lower end Torres and Soto cards early on...but when it came down to it, most of my last two years of hobby money has gone into Acuna. Just something about the way the ball jumps off his bat. If curious, watch some of his 2017 minor league at bats on youtube. The sound of the ball off his bat seems different than any player I've ever watched. On top of that, Acuna has the running game plus a pretty decent glove. Getting into Acuna's stuff now though (same as Soto and Tatis) is pricey as his cards now have two years of stats as well as projected future stats priced into the card value. Interesting you are asking this question though as I've seen a lot of Tatis stuff priced similarly to Acuna's stuff even though Tatis only has 84 games under his belt to Acuna's 267 games.

You're way more likely to eventually be underwater buying from the top of the hype train than trying to find someone who the hobby doesn't yet believe can be the "next Trout".

To have on my team? Soto.

To own cards of? Acuna.

Of these three Soto looks the best. His advantage over Acuna and Tatis (who are both amazing players likely to have fantastic careers) is he has dominated at every level. Even as a 17 year old he dominated. His plate discipline has always been remarkable for his age. I predict, within the next 10-12 years he will hit 55-60 homeruns in a single season.

If you had to choose only one guy who would you pick? Soto, Acuna or Tatis?
 

Upside as an “investor” vs card prices? Might be better to ask which has least downside, as a couple of these guys have probably more downside risk than upside opportunity. Just maintaining prices would require them to make a step change in their game that they haven’t shown an ability to deliver.

Soto is probably the exception where if he continues to deliver the performance he’s already shown will at least be flat.

So there is your answer in this group: Soto. Least downside with similar (maybe more?) upside.

But if you are looking for “investments” there are probably a lot better options for upside than these guys if you are buying in today.




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You have to look at talent, but also "star power". Acuna has the IT factor that drives prices and gathers a following. I personally believe all three will be great for years to come, but Acuna will take it all to another level. Last year was big, but I expect 2020 to be his true breakout season. And that is saying something after the year he had last year.

[QUOTE=Stech36;15325783]By all around potential
Acuna>Tatis>Soto

Soto has the chance to be the best hitter in the league, but defense and base-running matter[/QUOTE]



So you are saying that a player’s defense and base running are much more important than batting performance?

I.e., if player

1 = top 5 batter (I.e., wRC+ 150-160), plus fielder, average base runner

2 = rank 30-40 best batter (I.e. wRC+ 120-130), plus plus fielder, plus base runner

That 2 > 1?


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Soto...already has the Ring!

[QUOTE=pewe;15326159]So you are saying that a player’s defense and base running are much more important than batting performance?

I.e., if player

1 = top 5 batter (I.e., wRC+ 150-160), plus fielder, average base runner

2 = rank 30-40 best batter (I.e. wRC+ 120-130), plus plus fielder, plus base runner

That 2 > 1?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]



Not to mention, if baserunning matters, so does running out balls that hit off the wall...

[QUOTE=premium1981;15326139]You have to look at talent, but also "star power". Acuna has the IT factor that drives prices and gathers a following. I personally believe all three will be great for years to come, but Acuna will take it all to another level. Last year was big, but I expect 2020 to be his true breakout season. And that is saying something after the year he had last year.[/QUOTE]



Which is to say... he was tied for 39-41st best batter in 2019 with Michael Conforto and Luke Voit... I sure hope he turns in a good season in 2020, because if he doesn’t elevate his game he’s going to start getting lost in the crowd


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[QUOTE=pewe;15326159]So you are saying that a player’s defense and base running are much more important than batting performance?

I.e., if player

1 = top 5 batter (I.e., wRC+ 150-160), plus fielder, average base runner

2 = rank 30-40 best batter (I.e. wRC+ 120-130), plus plus fielder, plus base runner

That 2 > 1?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

#NerdStats

[QUOTE=ThoseBackPages;15326178]#NerdStats[/QUOTE]



Important to know, when they rule the world ;)


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Buy Soto Topps Update/Update Chrome. Buy Acuna's Bat Down SP. Skip Tatis and buy Torres. Can't go wrong.

[QUOTE=pewe;15326185]Important to know, when they rule the world ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Not the hobby world :)

Not this again. Jesus.

[QUOTE=KhalDrogo;15326204]Not this again. Jesus.[/QUOTE]


We will soon hear Al Gore announce his follow up to his 2006 blockbuster with “An Inconvenient Truth 2: On-field Performance Does Matter in Baseball Card Collecting”

:D


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[QUOTE=pewe;15326185]Important to know, when they rule the world ;)


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WAR drives MVPs now whether the old guys yelling from their porch like it or not :)

[QUOTE=ThoseBackPages;15326196]Not the hobby world :)[/QUOTE]



Those who have the $$ make the rules...


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[QUOTE=ThoseBackPages;15326196]Not the hobby world :)[/QUOTE]



Tell that to trout

[QUOTE=pewe;15326176]Which is to say... he was tied for 39-41st best batter in 2019 with Michael Conforto and Luke Voit... I sure hope he turns in a good season in 2020, because if he doesn’t elevate his game he’s going to start getting lost in the crowd


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He finished 5th in the N.L. MVP, won a Silver Slugger award and was an All Star.:)!

[QUOTE=pewe;15326176]he was tied for 39-41st best batter in 2019 with Michael Conforto and Luke Voit.[/QUOTE]

Says who?

[QUOTE=SaltyCracker;15326352]He finished 5th in the N.L. MVP, won a Silver Slugger award and was an All Star.:)![/QUOTE]



The silver slugger was a farce... he was well below most other candidates... not sure how that one went through

Of course he was an All star - that is fan vote from one of the by far largest media markets... not on field performance


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[QUOTE=premium1981;15326370]Says who?[/QUOTE]



Acuna said it with a 126 wRC+ in 2019


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Pewe struggles at times to see how the hobby works

but i think hes a good dude

[QUOTE=premium1981;15326370]Says who?[/QUOTE]

The numbers. You want nerd stats or simple?

Ranks among players with at least 300 ABs:

Simple:
OPS: 48th
SLG: 68th
AVG: 62nd

Nerd:
wRC+: 53rd

Acuna was not even close to an elite hitter last year

[QUOTE=pewe;15326375]Acuna said it with a 126 wRC+ in 2019


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***Shakes head***

You picked your random comparison number, let me pick some. I will use Conforto since they are in the same division.

Runs ([B]ACUNA [/B]127 vs 90)
Hits ([B]ACUNA [/B]175 vs 141)
HR ([B]ACUNA [/B]41 vs 33)
RBI ([B]ACUNA [/B]101 vs 92)
SB ([B]ACUNA [/B]37 vs 7)
BA ([B]ACUNA [/B].280 vs .257)
SLUG ([B]ACUNA [/B].518 vs .494)
OPS ([B]ACUNA [/B].883 vs .856)
TB ([B]ACUNA [/B]324 vs 271)

I'll stop now. Yea, I agree that Acuna and Conforto are equal players.:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=premium1981;15326392]***Shakes head***

You picked your random compison number, let me pick some. I will use Conforto since they are in the same division.

Runs ([B]ACUNA [/B]127 vs 90)
Hits ([B]ACUNA [/B]175 vs 141)
HR ([B]ACUNA [/B]41 vs 33)
RBI ([B]ACUNA [/B]101 vs 92)
SB ([B]ACUNA [/B]37 vs 7)
BA ([B]ACUNA [/B].280 vs .257)
SLUG ([B]ACUNA [/B].518 vs .494)
OPS ([B]ACUNA [/B].883 vs .856)
TB ([B]ACUNA [/B]324 vs 271)

I'll stop now. Yea, I agree that Acuna and Conforto are equal players.:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

you are not using enough #NerdStats

[QUOTE=ThoseBackPages;15326395]you are not using enough #NerdStats[/QUOTE]

I guess not. Real stats don't work I guess.

If you had to choose only one guy who would you pick? Soto, Acuna or Tatis?
 

[QUOTE=ThoseBackPages;15326385]Pewe struggles at times to see how the hobby works

but i think hes a good dude[/QUOTE]



It is the support I really appreciate ;)

And I’m still waiting for someone to show me an example of a player with sustained hobby love who doesn’t also sustain top performance on the field. I will continue to assert: without delivery in the game, the players will fade in hobby love. Right now they are propped up on hope and dreams. But hope and dreams needs to be replaced with fulfilled dreams.

This why I will reiterate: Soto is the safest of those players listed.


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[QUOTE=pewe;15326159]So you are saying that a player’s defense and base running are much more important than batting performance?

I.e., if player

1 = top 5 batter (I.e., wRC+ 150-160), plus fielder, average base runner

2 = rank 30-40 best batter (I.e. wRC+ 120-130), plus plus fielder, plus base runner

That 2 > 1?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

WAR agrees with me, but that’s not even what this is about. Acuna has the potential to hit as well as Soto does, but Soto can not field or run as well as Acuna did in 2019 and never will be able to. So Acuna has a higher ceiling if he hits a bit better and keeps his speed

[QUOTE=premium1981;15326392]***Shakes head***

You picked your random comparison number, let me pick some. I will use Conforto since they are in the same division.

Runs ([B]ACUNA [/B]127 vs 90)
Hits ([B]ACUNA [/B]175 vs 141)
HR ([B]ACUNA [/B]41 vs 33)
RBI ([B]ACUNA [/B]101 vs 92)
SB ([B]ACUNA [/B]37 vs 7)
BA ([B]ACUNA [/B].280 vs .257)
SLUG ([B]ACUNA [/B].518 vs .494)
OPS ([B]ACUNA [/B].883 vs .856)
TB ([B]ACUNA [/B]324 vs 271)

I'll stop now. Yea, I agree that Acuna and Conforto are equal players.:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

The reason that Conforto and Acuna produce the same wRC+ with the .883 to .856 OPS disparity is because it adjusts for the park. Citi field is the most pitcher friendly park in baseball and SunTrust is very hitter friendly

Well it was easy for me. Braves fan, so Acuna.

Acuna also led the MLB in power-speed#. 16th best all time power-speed# season. Would have been higher had he been running more before the all star break.

[QUOTE=Stech36;15326407]WAR agrees with me, but that’s not even what this is about. Acuna has the potential to hit as well as Soto does, but Soto can not field or run as well as Acuna did in 2019 and never will be able to. So Acuna has a higher ceiling if he hits a bit better and keeps his speed[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't want to try and compare Soto and Acuna in batting. They are just very different players. It's like trying to compare Acuna to Trout. Doubt many people would try.

Soto is more likely to be Trout at the plate... i.e., great place discipline, very low swinging strikes, high contact rate, lower K%, good power, high BB%... Acuna is very unlikely to have much if any of that. Just not his capability. He will probably always hit for good power, and above average BA, but won't ever be in the Soto, Trout, Bregman, Betts world when it comes to actual batting ability.

[QUOTE=premium1981;15326392]***Shakes head***

You picked your random comparison number, let me pick some. I will use Conforto since they are in the same division.

Runs ([B]ACUNA [/B]127 vs 90)
Hits ([B]ACUNA [/B]175 vs 141)
HR ([B]ACUNA [/B]41 vs 33)
RBI ([B]ACUNA [/B]101 vs 92)
SB ([B]ACUNA [/B]37 vs 7)
BA ([B]ACUNA [/B].280 vs .257)
SLUG ([B]ACUNA [/B].518 vs .494)
OPS ([B]ACUNA [/B].883 vs .856)
TB ([B]ACUNA [/B]324 vs 271)

I'll stop now. Yea, I agree that Acuna and Conforto are equal players.:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Well, first you need to remove stats that don't directly relate to hitting ability... and remember that Acuna had 10% more plate attempts

If all you do is look at the easiest stats: ISO (i.e., power), OBP, SLG... you'll see they were nearly tied in all (Conforto a little behind)... and wRC+ also does a park adjustment, where Conforto is hurt by being in one of the most pitcher friendly parks, so he gets a little boost vs. Acuna who hits in a more hitter friendly park.

This is the scary thing, when you really look at it...

Now was Conforto any good on the bases

For next year? Acuna (40/40 potential and hype)
Long term? Soto (the other two are injury prone)

I recommend? Diversify between all three and add Bellinger and Devers.

Soto because the situation is never too big for him. He embraces big moments. I think he can possibly be pujols like with better numbers in his 30's.

Oh man, Soto ALL day

[QUOTE=Stech36;15326407]WAR agrees with me, but that’s not even what this is about. Acuna has the potential to hit as well as Soto does, but Soto can not field or run as well as Acuna did in 2019 and never will be able to. So Acuna has a higher ceiling if he hits a bit better and keeps his speed[/QUOTE]

People on here keep pointing out that WAR does not equal hobby love... for if it did, we would see people fawning over Siemen, Marte, and Chapman well before any of the three we have listed here.

And if defense mattered, then J.T. Realmuto would be considered a god.

Or if it was speed + defense, then go get Elvis Andrus, Victor Robles, and Kolten Wong.

But I think we see limited love for all those guys.

Soto for me. I think his love of the game and maturity will allow him to do well aside from his skills.

Center Field is one of the most premiere Positions in the game. I think this is becoming even more true with the latest trends in hitting strategy.

Of those, Soto

i think Sotos baserunning gets a bad wrap

[QUOTE=Gem10collection;15326517]For next year? Acuna (40/40 potential and hype)
Long term? Soto (the other two are injury prone)

I recommend? Diversify between all three and add Bellinger and Devers.[/QUOTE]

Soto Missed almost the entire 2017 season to injury.

[QUOTE=pete2345;15325800]Torres[/QUOTE]

This guy knows thing.

[QUOTE=Stech36;15326731]Soto Missed almost the entire 2017 season to injury.[/QUOTE]



I don’t know much about his minors record... what happened to him in 2017???

Honestly, injury is the real issue all these great players will need to be lucky relative to. Just look at Griffey, Pujols, etc. :(


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[QUOTE=Stech36;15326731]Soto Missed almost the entire 2017 season to injury.[/QUOTE]

Also missed time this year because of his back.

Josh (jjrpilot), see what you started here!? This Soto vs Acuna debate never ends.. lol! :cry:

The best route to take is to collect [B]BOTH[/B] :)!

[QUOTE=REGGIE206;15326785]Josh (jjrpilot), see what you started here!? This Soto vs Acuna debate never ends.. lol! :cry:

The best route to take is to collect both :)![/QUOTE]



It’s the off-season... we need the distraction from our boredom ;)


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[QUOTE=ThoseBackPages;15326178]#NerdStats[/QUOTE]

When things are too complicated for the simpletons to understand they just start calling you names.

[QUOTE=pewe;15326789]It’s the off-season... we need the distraction from our boredom ;)[/QUOTE]
Haha! That is true. :p

[QUOTE=Rjcollings1973;15326951]When things are too complicated for the simpletons to understand they just start calling you names.[/QUOTE]

well played!

:)!:)!:)!

[QUOTE=jjrpilot;15325722]I know I've mentioned in other posts, but getting back into cards has been a whirlwind after an almost 20 year break lol.

Seems like [B]Soto, Acuna and Tatis[/B] get a ton of love here. For you stat guys...who do you like the BEST out of the three and why?

I know all three are super young and seem to be taking the MLB by storm etc.[/QUOTE]

Pete Alonso

[QUOTE=Timsterino;15327063]Pete Alonso[/QUOTE]
I like it.

He gets very little hobby respect, and I get it. But he mashes, and if he does so again next year I think ppl will regret looking past him.

I like all of them- very special players. Can’t decide who

I will hold off on Tatis comps for now because there is just not enough to have a real take on him at this time. He moved very fast through the minors putting up great numbers and those numbers did not fall off when he arrived in the majors. Definitely want to see more before getting a real take on him.

That being said, Soto is Frank Thomas & Acuna Jr is Griffey Jr. The comps definitely work for me in both their approach, styles and hobby standings. There was a time in the mid 90's where Thomas & Griffey cards were neck and neck on new releases until Griffey eventually pulled away with the bigger following. Soto comps to Pujols also seem fair but I think Pujols was definitely a level higher (if you believe he was 21 in 2001). Griffey is definitely the better fielder but Acuna will have a chance to put up some numbers that may top Griffey and approach Trout levels. Very early to loft any of these comps on these guys but they are both having historically great starts to their careers.

To answer the OP, I personally like Acuna the best out of the three. We've seen what the best versions of Soto look like and they are amazing. If Acuna tops out, from what I understand we may have a chance to witness something amazing. I'll always cheer for that possibility. Stats wise, I think Soto has the highest floor but Acuna has the higher ceiling. In the end, best to buy into both.

Ronald Acuña Jr.

Most exciting player. More than likely will have a ring sooner than later.

If you're trying to pick one over the other two, frankly it's probably a toss-up.

My knock against Tatis is that his body-type combined with his extraordinary athleticism will likely lead to a lot of injuries. (The stress reaction in his back at age 20 is certainly concerning.) But otherwise he's every bit as exciting as Acuna. Soto is the best hitter--the one who could routinely bat .330 and hit 40 HR while keeping his OPS north of 1.000. Acuna might put up a 40/40 season soon enough, but the stolen bases will eventually dwindle, so his stature in the game (and hobby) will depend on his bat's continued progression. He could be Trout, or he could just be Alfonso Soriano. (Although, Soriano didn't become a star until he was 26.)

But I wouldn't limit the conversation to these three. In fact, we're witnessing one of the more amazing influxes of talent the game has every seen. Vlad Jr's upside is on the same level. As is Yordan's. The Yankees have their budding young superstar in Gleyber, the Red Sox have Devers, and Eloy might have Giancarlo Stanton-type potential. And then there's Bellinger, who's had two great seasons by the age of 24. And if the White Sox take a big step toward contention, Yoan Moncada (along with Eloy) will have a lot to do with that. And it's probably worth mentioning Bichette and Hiura, too.

Jordan or Lebron?

[QUOTE=ksemmel;15327323]Jordan or Lebron?[/QUOTE]



Wilt


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I believe the answer is Soto. He's already one of the best hitters in baseball, and he has a reputation for working hard to improve on his weaknesses. Plus, his underlying metrics indicate that his hitting prowess is based on skill rather than BABIP luck or on the kind of elite athleticism that fades at age 30.

Regarding comps, I'm very interested to see how Soto does this season, because now---in his 3rd big league season, with one championship ring on his finger already---he will finally be the same age Pujols was when Pujols played his first big league season.