Shane Baz Is the PTBNL in the Chris Archer Trade!
 

Just revealed - [B]Shane Baz[/B] is headed to the Rays as the PTBNL in the Archer trade!

He, Meadows and Glasnow definitely constitute a blockbuster. Wow. :eek::eek::eek:

That is surprising

[url]https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/08/pirates-trade-shane-baz-rays-chris-archer-ptbnl.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Hollywood42;13819489]That is surprising[/QUOTE]

That was the rumor that had been going around on Twitter since the deal was made, but I agree it is still surprising.

Kicked the Pirates right in the junk.....

Future pitching looking promising.
Snell
McKay
Honeywell
Baz
Beeks
Glasnow
De Leon

Sure some questionable guys, but future looks bright

Turns out Rays were right to hold as long as they did. I think they did quite well, especially given Archer has really dropped off of late

Wooooaowwwww.

Don’t remember a PTBNL having that much juice in a long time

Doesn't Chris Archer only have one more year of control than Gerrit Cole? I don't really get trading Cole, then giving up a ton for Archer. I know they didn't happen like back to back, but close enough.

Way to go Rays!

[QUOTE=Orange October;13819585]Doesn't Chris Archer only have one more year of control than Gerrit Cole? I don't really get trading Cole, then giving up a ton for Archer. I know they didn't happen like back to back, but close enough.[/QUOTE]

the nuttings have to blow everything up when the pirates get close to having any real success. neal is a great gm though.

where are all of the pirates fans telling me this was a good deal. You traded for nothing more than a #4 starter.

[QUOTE=Orange October;13819585]Doesn't Chris Archer only have one more year of control than Gerrit Cole? I don't really get trading Cole, then giving up a ton for Archer. I know they didn't happen like back to back, but close enough.[/QUOTE]

I brought this up a few weeks ago and the pirates fans said I was dumb. lol so delusional

Not sure what the Pirates are doing here. Archer isn't enough to close the gap on the NL Central, and they sent the Rays a haul. Tampa did incredible though.

Gausman > Archer

Return of Gausman <<<<< return of Archer

Very good job Rays. I thought it was going to be a 1st or 2nd rounder from the 2018 draft (hence, the PTBNL), but may be even better.

Pirates have been pretty conservative with Baz (1 step/level per year) and assume the Rays may do the same. I am guessing he finishes the year at Princeton and starts 2019 in Bowling Green (unless they are uber conservative and have him go to XST/Hudson Valley).

[QUOTE=Chicharito;13819836]Gausman > Archer

Return of Gausman <<<<< return of Archer[/QUOTE]

Based on the returns in both, looks like O's were more intent on acquiring International slot $$ & dumping O'Day's contract on someone in the Gausman deal vs. return they got for Gausman as I think they now have the most International $$$ to try and sign Victor Victor Mesa

[QUOTE=Orange October;13819585]Doesn't Chris Archer only have one more year of control than Gerrit Cole? I don't really get trading Cole, then giving up a ton for Archer. I know they didn't happen like back to back, but close enough.[/QUOTE]



I think Cole was miserable in Pittsburgh and he was pitching like it. As a fan I was not sad to see him go.

Now was the Archer trade good? I think we will have to wait until next season to really see how good/bad it is.

[QUOTE=seanbros55;13819567]Wooooaowwwww.

Don’t remember a PTBNL having that much juice in a long time[/QUOTE]

Plenty of good talent go to teams as a PTBNL. The most recent was Turner from SD to WSH.

Baz has been killing it lately too. Not sure how to feel about this.

Thanks Pirates. I always wanted a Tampa Bay Rays PC.

Wow. A bad trade for the Pirates gets worse.

[QUOTE=Orange October;13819585]Doesn't Chris Archer only have one more year of control than Gerrit Cole? I don't really get trading Cole, then giving up a ton for Archer. I know they didn't happen like back to back, but close enough.[/QUOTE]

Pirates have two team options so he’s under control for three more years.

Reminds me of Indians trading Pomeranz and White for Ubaldo Jimenez

Seemed the Indians were fleeced at the time but both teams ended up getting a pile of poop

Pomeranz did turn it around once leaving the Rockies organization

Archer is a MUCH better pitcher

Pirates fans can’t make up their minds. They want the front office to make big moves and then when they do, they complain about it. But they do that about everything Pirates related, so I guess they are consistent.

Pirates ship off Gerrit Cole, he has an incredible season.

Then continue to give up the farm for Archer (who has fallen of tremendously) and Glasnow has killed it in TB so far.

[QUOTE=ALBASKETBALL;13822809]Reminds me of Indians trading Pomeranz and White for Ubaldo Jimenez

Seemed the Indians were fleeced at the time but both teams ended up getting a pile of poop

Pomeranz did turn it around once leaving the Rockies organization

Archer is a MUCH better pitcher[/QUOTE]

Really nice comparison. Also could bring up the Hamels trade to the Rangers. Jake Thompson (the big get from the pitching side) and Alec Asher turned out to be duds. Eickhoff had a nice year last year but I don't think anyone considers him anything more than a #4 starter. Alfaro and Nick Williams have some value but not nearly as much as most people thought when the trade went down. Granted Hamels didn't put the Rangers over the top like they had hoped but the trade turned out okay despite giving up 5 average or better prospects.

I like Baz but the odds of him ever becoming even an average starter in this league are likely less than 50% (maybe 30%)? High school pitchers just don't pan out that often.

Archer is out for the season [url]https://twitter.com/Pirates/status/1268181180081463296[/url]

What an awful trade for the Pirates, keeps getting worse and worse

[QUOTE=Hollywood42;15992256]Archer is out for the season [url]https://twitter.com/Pirates/status/1268181180081463296[/url]

What an awful trade for the Pirates, keeps getting worse and worse[/QUOTE]

Sad for Archer. That’s not a surgery many have come back from.

I totally know what it means but asking for a friend, what's PTBNL?

Player To Be Named Later

[QUOTE=Flamethrower;15992372]I totally know what it means but asking for a friend, what's PTBNL?[/QUOTE]

Player to be named later

This trade is so depressing for us Pirate fans


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[QUOTE=Cliffroach;13822918]Pirates fans can’t make up their minds. They want the front office to make big moves and then when they do, they complain about it. But they do that about everything Pirates related, so I guess they are consistent.[/QUOTE]

I know this is old, and I know the trade imploded, but I agree with this. The move was the type of move the fanbase had screamed for the team to make for years. I always warned them this was a potential outcome but all I ever heard was about prospect hoarding and cheapness.

Well, they went “all in” and people lost their minds.

I am a huge fan, but discussing the team with the fanbase is impossible due to the absolute level of hatred at the FO, some of which is justified but a lot that simply ignores the reality of the baseball financial system.

[QUOTE=Clemaz;15992421]This trade is so depressing for us Pirate fans


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I mean, it is...but at the time isn’t it the exact type of move the fanbase had wanted for years?

Remember, this is the fanbase that wanted to trade starling marte for hunter pence or Justin upton?

The fact that Baz alone is probably more valuable than Archer right now has gotta be painful. Potential perennial all stars Meadows and Glasnow are just throw ins.


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What a bummer.....just saw the Archer news. I personally thought he was going to be great for the Pirates. So glad NH is gone, but due to this trade he will never be forgotten.


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[QUOTE=somethingclever;15992637]What a bummer.....just saw the Archer news. I personally thought he was going to be great for the Pirates. So glad NH is gone, but due to this trade he will never be forgotten.


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I mean, he did essentially resurrect the franchise from the dead..

Shane Baz Is the PTBNL in the Chris Archer Trade!
 

[QUOTE=Alvarez09;15992721]I mean, he did essentially resurrect the franchise from the dead..[/QUOTE]


He did, but he will probably be remembered for the Archer Trade, at least for the near future. I also think he overstayed, perhaps if he had fired in 2017 he would have been a folk hero. Although that would have erased the trade of McCutchen for Reynolds and I think that was a good one.


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[QUOTE=Alvarez09;15992533]I know this is old, and I know the trade imploded, but I agree with this. The move was the type of move the fanbase had screamed for the team to make for years. I always warned them this was a potential outcome but all I ever heard was about prospect hoarding and cheapness.

Well, they went “all in” and people lost their minds.

I am a huge fan, but discussing the team with the fanbase is impossible due to the absolute level of hatred at the FO, some of which is justified but a lot that simply ignores the reality of the baseball financial system.[/QUOTE]

I was a vocal proponent of adding to those teams that were going to the playoffs in the early '10s. The Archer deal was a terrible deal from the get-go. Sending Tampa 2 highly regarded guys with virtually no MLB time, or in Glasnow's case, getting dicked around for 2 seasons before being traded. Then add in Baz and you have a complete mess of a trade.

Wanting a big trade to happen to help the club usually doesn't include trading for a visibly declining pitcher...

[QUOTE=Clemaz;15992421]This trade is so depressing for us Pirate fans


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It definitely is, but if Meadows and Glasnow had stayed in Pittsburgh and been great, we would have just traded them away for more prospects before their contracts were up.

With the current ownership, the Pirates will just keep going through this same cycle.

Thanks, Nutting.

[QUOTE=gmarutiak;15995463]It definitely is, but if Meadows and Glasnow had stayed in Pittsburgh and been great, we would have just traded them away for more prospects before their contracts were up.

With the current ownership, the Pirates will just keep going through this same cycle.

Thanks, Nutting.[/QUOTE]

Had they not gotten contract extensions, trading them away would be what they should do. As long as it’s done well. Reynolds for Cutch is the kind of trade you want to see. In 6 years when Reynolds’ contract nears expiration I hope he is flipped for a similar return. This is really the only way for a small market to stay competitive. The Archer trade was the exact opposite of what the team should have done.

Both Meadows and Glasnow look to be All-Star level performers health willing every year until arb eligible as well so it will just get worse from here. If Baz develops they’ll write folk songs about this deal.


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[QUOTE=pskell02;15995653]Had they not gotten contract extensions, trading them away would be what they should do. As long as it’s done well. Reynolds for Cutch is the kind of trade you want to see. In 6 years when Reynolds’ contract nears expiration I hope he is flipped for a similar return. This is really the only way for a small market to stay competitive. The Archer trade was the exact opposite of what the team should have done.[/QUOTE]


I have wondered if the FO thought since they made out so well on the Dickerson trade They thought they could rob TB again.


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[QUOTE=gmarutiak;15995463]It definitely is, but if Meadows and Glasnow had stayed in Pittsburgh and been great, we would have just traded them away for more prospects before their contracts were up.

With the current ownership, the Pirates will just keep going through this same cycle.

Thanks, Nutting.[/QUOTE]

This line is so tiresome. Yes, the Pirates trade players, but most of the time when they are on the downside of their careers. I know the fanbase wanted to give Cutch a 500 millioni dollar contract but that would have been disastourous.

[QUOTE=pskell02;15995653]Had they not gotten contract extensions, trading them away would be what they should do. As long as it’s done well. Reynolds for Cutch is the kind of trade you want to see. In 6 years when Reynolds’ contract nears expiration I hope he is flipped for a similar return. This is really the only way for a small market to stay competitive. The Archer trade was the exact opposite of what the team should have done.[/QUOTE]

When it comes to the Pirates, your definition of "competitive" must be a lot different than mine.

Or Webster's.

[QUOTE=Alvarez09;15996712]This line is so tiresome. Yes, the Pirates trade players, but most of the time when they are on the downside of their careers. I know the fanbase wanted to give Cutch a 500 millioni dollar contract but that would have been disastourous.[/QUOTE]

I agree. It is tiresome. Because it is true.

The last player to get into the Hall of Fame as a Pirates player retired in 1972. Unless Dave Parker gets in, there may never be another. That's just sad.

The Pirates have had three winning seasons over the past 28 seasons. If that's not "disastourous" I don't know what is.

[QUOTE=gmarutiak;15997185]I agree. It is tiresome. Because it is true.

The last player to get into the Hall of Fame as a Pirates player retired in 1972. Unless Dave Parker gets in, there may never be another. That's just sad.

The Pirates have had three winning seasons over the past 28 seasons. If that's not "disastourous" I don't know what is.[/QUOTE]

What does what happened in 1995 have to do with bob nutting and Neal huntington?

We know, nutting is the devil. I’m not going any further with this argument because I’m sick of dealing with this segment of the fanbase.

[QUOTE=gmarutiak;15997135]When it comes to the Pirates, your definition of "competitive" must be a lot different than mine.

Or Webster's.[/QUOTE]

They were competitive for a pretty large chunk of the last decade? What are you talking about? Three playoff seasons, Four winning seasons, and every year from 2011 till like 2018 they had at least some hopes of making a playoffs push through at least the end of July.

[QUOTE=Alvarez09;15996712]This line is so tiresome. Yes, the Pirates trade players, but most of the time when they are on the downside of their careers. I know the fanbase wanted to give Cutch a 500 millioni dollar contract but that would have been disastourous.[/QUOTE]


The Cutch trade is an excellent example of how it can work. Signing Cutch to a long term contract was not in the best interest of the team.


I would argue that the Cole trade was also ok, maybe we could have done better, but Cole needed to be traded.

I’m also confused as to why the Marte trade is already being condemned.


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[QUOTE=somethingclever;15998834]The Cutch trade is an excellent example of how it can work. Signing Cutch to a long term contract was not in the best interest of the team.


I would argue that the Cole trade was also ok, maybe we could have done better, but Cole needed to be traded.

I’m also confused as to why the Marte trade is already being condemned.


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Cole being mediocre the 2 years before we traded him didn’t help anything. I get really pissed off when I hear cutch and Cole complain about the pirates not trying in 2016...how about they look in the mirror at their own performance?

Honestly, cutch, Cole, liriano, and cervelli all fell completely off a cliff...very few teams could have overcome that and yet the team still was within two games of a WC spot in early september. Maybe if cutch didn’t go from MVP caliber to below replacement level and Cole didn’t throw a hissy fit about 20k in his salary the pirates would have made the playoffs that year.

[QUOTE=Alvarez09;15999014]Cole being mediocre the 2 years before we traded him didn’t help anything. I get really pissed off when I hear cutch and Cole complain about the pirates not trying in 2016...how about they look in the mirror at their own performance?

Honestly, cutch, Cole, liriano, and cervelli all fell completely off a cliff...very few teams could have overcome that and yet the team still was within two games of a WC spot in early september. Maybe if cutch didn’t go from MVP caliber to below replacement level and Cole didn’t throw a hissy fit about 20k in his salary the pirates would have made the playoffs that year.[/QUOTE]


Yup, I got the feeling (possibly misguided) that Cole was not really giving 100%. I know Ray may have lost his touch but I have to wonder if it wasn’t all his fault.


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